Is this shade?
What Do You Think Makes a Man?
- Thread starter bcrusaderw
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Amphibious
Land, water, wherever.
Nah, just realness. Tired of these made up reasons why someone isn't a REAL lady or REAL man. Lady organs = women, man organs = man. End of!
PlainSight
Anon
This has been a most interesting read 
I actually kinda lean towards what @cloudbox says, interestingly because very recently I was doing a lot of reading about the fact that a lot of men commit suicide over failing to reach milestones that he's "supposed" to reach because he's a man instead of something he wants to do
. I'd rather not call my fellow peer a weakling because he doesn't want to do what I want to do. As a man, there are a lot of things I want to accomplish, but I don't expect every man to be like me. And if we are serious about women having the freedom to get more out of life rather than just being a homemaker or whatever, then I think men should be afforded the same freedom too. We aren't all going to fit the same paradigm of masculinity, nor are we all going to want the same accomplishments.
That's all I had to say really - I can't say what I think makes a man because we're all individuals within collectives
I actually kinda lean towards what @cloudbox says, interestingly because very recently I was doing a lot of reading about the fact that a lot of men commit suicide over failing to reach milestones that he's "supposed" to reach because he's a man instead of something he wants to do
. I'd rather not call my fellow peer a weakling because he doesn't want to do what I want to do. As a man, there are a lot of things I want to accomplish, but I don't expect every man to be like me. And if we are serious about women having the freedom to get more out of life rather than just being a homemaker or whatever, then I think men should be afforded the same freedom too. We aren't all going to fit the same paradigm of masculinity, nor are we all going to want the same accomplishments. That's all I had to say really - I can't say what I think makes a man because we're all individuals within collectives
If this thread is any indication, I don't know any men then. 
I dapped you. But i think this is something that many males and females need to take heed of. A man doing what you said is the same in a man's view as a woman flying off the handles over a IG/Facebook like.
To be called a Man or a Woman emotional maturity is key.
agnosticlady
AL loves da kids : )
Definitely true....
Also, as a man who observes and had positive male role models one thing I notice with MEN is control and consistency.
My dad (who is FAR from fukking perfect) always had his home in order. We had freedom but we knew our limitations, we didn't test him, because we knew there were consequences. My father never yelled, i think only whooped me like once, and always seemed to be in control of his emotions without being cold or emotionless. I knew when he was sad, i knew when he was angry...but he never let that affect his decision-making or lashed out at us.
Consistency is another important thing. Not predictability. But if you are a guy who wants to cuts a certain posture in your workplace, home and community, people need to see that. Its a key in knowing WHO you are.
My dad (who is FAR from fukking perfect) always had his home in order. We had freedom but we knew our limitations, we didn't test him, because we knew there were consequences. My father never yelled, i think only whooped me like once, and always seemed to be in control of his emotions without being cold or emotionless. I knew when he was sad, i knew when he was angry...but he never let that affect his decision-making or lashed out at us.
Consistency is another important thing. Not predictability. But if you are a guy who wants to cuts a certain posture in your workplace, home and community, people need to see that. Its a key in knowing WHO you are.
Taadow
The StarchBishop™️
This has been a most interesting read
I actually kinda lean towards what @cloudbox says, interestingly because very recently I was doing a lot of reading about the fact that a lot of men commit suicide over failing to reach milestones that he's "supposed" to reach because he's a man instead of something he wants to do
That's all I had to say really - I can't say what I think makes a man because we're all individuals within collectives
I can see your rationale here, and I understand it - I also agree with most of it.
That said, where I disagree with you is the bolded. I think all men want to "accomplish" what @agnosticlady said in
post #58 on some level.
Could you and I agree to that?
agnosticlady
AL loves da kids : )
Honestly I think boys kill themselves over fake standards. On that point I can understand where cloudbox is coming from. I think a man that loves science, helping his family, and gardening is just as masculine as a man who enjoys football, video games, and wrestling. At the same time it is in a mans innate nature to use his hands to build, provide, and protect his family. I've also noticed that it is in a mans innate nature to be adventurous. Just look at a bunch of kids during recess. The boys usually go out play and rough each other up. The girls are playing patty cake, braiding each others hair or talking. Yes there are exceptions, but I see this all the time in children. At my community college we have summer programs for kids. The kids I saw were all between 7 to 10. The boys were running around getting dirty while the girls were talking, jump roping, patty cake, and that is why in a marriage a lot of men can literally go crazy or feel bad when they lose their job. The only game I remember both kids loving growing up was kick ball. Everybody came out for that lol. They feel as if they can't provide for their family. I think to simply say meh let people be whatever and there are no gender roles really confuses society.
Taadow
The StarchBishop™️
PlainSight
Anon
Was it post 58? Either way, I think we can agree that men in general want to accomplish something in their lives, and often times, inertia is as much of a kiss of death as doing something they don't want to do. Which brings me to the point of what it is they want to do. That can very pretty wildly, more than people realize. When we think about phrases like men "needing to build to provide for family" and other such epiphets, while noble in their own right, we often neglect that not every man wants to do that. Not every man wants a family, and not every man wants to have the kind of legacy we tend to associate with materially or otherwise successful men by capitalistic/traditional standards.
I tend to view this current generational time as a period of extremes - perhaps as a backlash to traditions that exclude people who would be considered outliers - like a man who feels he cannot be himself so uses escapism as a vice or drug. E.G video games, excess of weed, alcohol etc. Even men who willingly or reluctantly follow the narrative of what's supposed to be his innate nature fall victim to vices and escapism, so I can imagine how tempting it must be.
I understand that there are noticeable differences in how the boys and girls play, but how much of that is nurture rather than nature? I hesitate to use my own childhood as an example, as I have always been an outlier in most areas of life, but I was into both masculine and feminine stuff as a kid. Perhaps because I was less vulnerable mentally to the pressure to be 100% masculine at all times. I think that the gradual erosion of gender roles is confusing to society, but that's because they've been a constant social construct that's been held up as the only way for a very very very long time. And I guess that while I'm not particularly that hurt by gender roles, if I think objectively, I can see who it does hurt, which is why I'm more sympathetic to men who perhaps feel under pressure to "build" something. What if one wants to build a life for himself that isn't acceptable to his family or his close peers? Or doesn't follow the narrative that supposedly besets a man? And consequently, what of the women who are more suited to be leaders, or providers etc - exceptions though they may possibly be?
I think it's fine to uphold traditional gender roles. And I do think a majority of men tend to be driven towards masculine pursuits - but it's difficult for me to co-sign the idea that our innate nature only predisposes us to be one way - I've encountered too many exceptions to consider it a rule for all. I'll try and elaborate a little more and be less vague as I have to do something.
Taadow
The StarchBishop™️
Whoa...the red part is not what was said. Those were seperate.
"build with thier hands" is seperate from "provide for family".
That looks like a little thing, but it changes the discussion.
Me saying "Build/work with their hands" does not necessarily mean that a man has to have a trade job
or he's not a man. It means men generally like to build/make things. For example @agnosticlady said
"gardening". That's working with your hands imo. So is working on cars, or fixing stuff that's broken,
or art, inventing stuff, or (wait for it)
- cooking!
Especially if it's something that has a tangible benefit for someone or your family.
Men have an interest in things like that. This is often just seen as a "work" thing,
but it isn't restricted to that.
"Provide for/protect family" doesn't just mean taking care of a wife and children.
For example - I have parents, 3 sisters, and nieces and nephews.
As a man in the prime of my life, I want to do things for them generally.
And I want to help if something is wrong. I think every man feels that way.
agnosticlady
AL loves da kids : )
Yup.....Men are some of the best cooks in the commercial kitchen because they can handle that loud, dangerous bustling environment. Also although gardening is seen as feminine today men are usually the gardeners. Gardening is very dirty work. That's why you usually see men mowing the lawn. I've never mowed a lawn a day in my life. My fathers and brothers always did that while I helped take care of others things (cooking, laundry, cleaning, and etc).