We are living in a world of illusion

[MMS]

Your stance can always change

Plus the more you post the more I learn

jews ability to scrutinize the word comes from one source alone and that is the word itself

there is a secret however language

 

[DoubleClutch]

jews ability to scrutinize the word comes from one source alone and that is the word itself

there is a secret however language

I can respect that because if knew Hebrew he couldn’t tel me nothing

Yea so What about the Jews that don’t know Hebrew?

 

[MMS]

I can respect that because if knew Hebrew he couldn’t tel me nothing

Yea so What about the Jews that don’t know Hebrew?

they might as well not be jewish that said interpretation is important. I think its important to maintain a sense of centeredness when reading any passage.

 

[YouMadd?]

Yes, if you live with a pure heart and raise your vibrations, you can do anything that has been done.... You literally have to be the opposite of sad, guilty, scared, regretful, resentful, angry and you can do anything you want.

 

[Koichos]

I strongly encourage you to read Isaiah 19 again (my thread)

Isaiah 19:25


Israel is and has always been connected to Egypt for better or worse

https://www.thecoli.com/posts/37739840/

It is said that Xi Wang Mu personally made the Chinese people out of clay at her leisure
Queen Mother of the West - Wikipedia

Spoiler

now compare that to this story
Kvasir - Wikipedia

The children Avrohom sent eastward, to "eretz kedem" (B'raishis 25:6); that may be China, etc.

 

[DoubleClutch]

they might as well not be jewish that said interpretation is important. I think its important to maintain a sense of centeredness when reading any passage.

Yea but today there’s “Jews”, people who are Jewish by religion or People claiming to be Hebrew from all ethnicity and speaking all languages. Mostly they speak all different types of languages

And then there’s Christians (of all races) who are Jewish religion by default belief in Jesus

Nobody really speaks Hebrew anymore (or necessarily needs to) Because this isn’t the OT unless they go out of their way to learn for religious or Their own educational purposes

Hebrew was almost a dead language. Jews in Europe didn’t speak Hebrew from the OT did they? I think it more recently had a resurgence

That’s why throughout history we have the Bible translated to literally every language on earth

 

[Koichos]

Jews in Europe didn’t speak Hebrew from the OT did they?

Yiddish/Ladino was for everyday use and Hebrew for sacred purposes. Children learned Hebrew in yeshiva, only to be used studying Torah.

Hebrew was almost a dead language.

I think it more recently had a resurgence

The natural osmosis of Hebrew from Biblical to Mishnaic to Modern is a lengthy yet interesting subject.

Spoiler

Biblical Hebrew ceased among Jewry as a spoken tongue primarily with the end of the biblical period following the Jews' return from golus Bavli. Mishnaic Hebrew, the Hebrew of Chaza"l (representing the written and spoken Hebrew of their time), is somewhat different. Chaza"l therefore speak of לשון מקרא or 'loshon mikra' (Language of Tenach), Biblical Hebrew; and לשון חכמים or 'loshon chochumim' (Language of Sages), Mishnaic Hebrew. In loshon chochumim there is a tendency to leave off the "ית-" suffix at the end of a fraction: for example, שלישית (one third) in loshon mikra becomes שליש in loshon chochumim; רביעית (one fourth) becomes רביע, and so on. Perhaps this is due to the fact that the forms with "ית-" are somewhat ambiguous: רביעית can mean "[fem.] fourth [in a series]" or "one fourth."

We can see the shift from Hebrew to Aramaic (or perhaps back to Aramaic, as Shimon Bar Kochba re-instituted Hebrew as the official language) in the latter half of the Talmud. In both the Yerushalmi and Bavli, the Mishnayos are written in Hebrew, but the Gemoros are written in Aramaic. The reason Jews stopped speaking Hebrew as an everyday language is because it wasn't b'chavodig (respectable) to use it for ovdey chul (what is done on the weekday)—things that are common during the week but have no connection to Shabbes or what it is meant for and therefore avoided so we can keep the Shabbes holy and separate. Hebrew continued to be used for Torah study, learning, and as a liturgical and literary language so as not to dilute Loshon Hakoidesh, the Holy Tongue, the language of Torah.

The vocabulary of Mishnaic Hebrew is largely derived from its biblical predecessor, material that underwent changes in its syntactic structure, as well as loanwords from numerous other languages, especially Aramaic. Mishnaic Hebrew is very Aramaic-y as Aramaic had become the lingua franca of the Jews during golus Bavli. לשון חכמים or 'loshon chochumim' consists of two strata: the older linguistic stratum, the spoken language of the Tannoim, is found in the Mishnah, Toisefta, and the Braisos in both Bavli and Yerushalmi, as well as the Halochic Medrishim; its successor, the language of the Amoroim, was the language of literary and religious discourse, and characterizes the Haggodic Medrishim and the gemoros in both Talmudim. (When mishnayos and braisos are being quoted the Hebrew in the gemoros is Amoroic.) The difference between the earlier (Tannoitic) and later (Amoroitic) Mishnaic Hebrew is dialectic—akin to the difference between the dialectic roots of the Aramaic found in Talmud Yerushalmi (Western Aramaic) and Talmud Bavli (Eastern Aramaic).

Biblical Hebrew is far more compact, concise and poetic than Mishnaic Hebrew, the latter of which is quite colloquial in exchange and discussion in order to rote memorization. Biblical Hebrew predominately uses a verb-subject-object word order, while Mishnaic Hebrew is generally subject-verb-object. As an illustration, the common expression "וידבר י-ה-ו-ה אל משה" that is found throughout Torah would translate literally as "and He spoke (V), Hashem (S), to Moshe (O)"; but in Mishnaic Hebrew one would generally say something like "י- ה-ו-ה ידבר אל משה" ("Hashem (S) will speak (V) to Moshe (O)"). This brings us to the 'perfect' (past) and 'imperfect' (future) tense-aspect. Notably, a 'perfect' tense command with the letter vov in front of it (a vov-consecutive) becomes an 'imperfect' tense, and vice versa. Therefore, the Hebrew word ידבר or 'yidaber' means "he will speak" (imperfect), but וידבר or 'va'yidaber' in Biblical Hebrew means "and he spoke" (perfect). (It should be noted that this is only if the vov is punctuated in a certain way, namely that a patach is underneath).)

From a logical standpoint, the Mishnah, Toisefta, Braisos and Halochic Medrishim were written in Eretz Yisroel at a time when Mishnaic Hebrew was still a spoken, not yet moribund language. So it makes sense for these writings to have been scribed in Hebrew. Despite Aramaic having been the lingua franca in the Jewish world (perhaps even more so than Hebrew), a process of gradual influence by reason of golus Bavli (hence the reason for Teimanim's unique minhag of counting the days of Sefiras HaOmer in Aramaic as opposed to Hebrew since they preserved the ancient Babylonian minhag where the lingua franca of most people was Aramaic), it was considered to be the language of the common people. Jews used Aramaic in their daily speech and did so in the major Jewish population centers. Recall that there were meturgamen in the shuls for Torah layning (learning from the Saifer Torah - handwritten Hebrew Torah Scrolls) for the common folk (those who we might today call the "chilonim"), because many of them did not know Hebrew but did know Aramaic.

The interpretation of Biblical Hebrew relies on the oral tradition: in particular, what a certain biblical term may be referring to (ערלה means 'covering', but how do we know this is the male membrum?), or how it ought to be pronounced (חלב can mean 'milk' (cholov) or 'fat' (chelev); יראה can mean 'fear/awe' (yirah) or 'see' (yireh) or 'appear' (yera'eh); חלק can mean 'part' (cheilek) or 'smooth' (chalak).) Many such examples in the Torah have halochic implications, meaning mitzvos we must observe. And in Biblical Hebrew the differentiation between heteronyms is a matter of vowelization which, until the medieval period, was kept entirely oral. The Saifer Torah (Handwritten Hebrew Torah Scroll) was committed to writing without nikkud (vowels), or any marks to show the ends of sentences. Thus in order to know when to stop, and how each word was pronounced, you had to know the oral tradition. In fact, to this day it is forbidden for ANY such markings to be added to a Saifer Torah. It would be rendered פסול or 'posul' (unfit) and discarded (entombed). Only the Chumesh (the printed book of Torah with written markings) and the Tenach contain nikkud. So in order to read from the scroll, you must know which vowel points belong where, and where the full stops materialize. Without the instruction of our oral tradition we are completely lost.

 

[Koichos]

Your stance can always change

Plus the more you post the more I learn

I do kiruv. I'm the one changing stances.

 

[Pazzy]

Good thread. Will add on eventually. Just reading through it because I most definitely thought about some shyt that needs to be in here.


Wouldn't say that everything is an illusion. We have the gift and curse of having the human brain. We understand it but then we dont. As humans, we dont fully recognize how deep some of the things we take for granted really are and how they affect us. We have to understand how our brains work in perceiving the world around us.

 

[Pazzy]

Perception is everything. EVERYTHING starts in the mind. Most people have no understanding of this. That's why slavery is more prevalent now than ever. Slavery is and always has been of the mind. As long as people THINK they're inferior, they'll be inferior. As long as people THINK the impossible is impossible it will remain impossible but only to those who limit their own selves.

Exactly. You get it.

 

[MMS]

To each his own. It can be a useful tool for connecting different ideas in Torah, especially for children. אברהם (Avrohom) has the same value as בצלם אלהים (in the image of Hashem), for he was the first man post-Adom to fully re-establish the image of Hashem in man.

the real question is what is more true:

1. The allegorical representation
2. The literal representation

 

[MMS]

Yea but today there’s “Jews”, people who are Jewish by religion or People claiming to be Hebrew from all ethnicity and speaking all languages. Mostly they speak all different types of languages

And then there’s Christians (of all races) who are Jewish religion by default belief in Jesus

Nobody really speaks Hebrew anymore (or necessarily needs to) Because this isn’t the OT unless they go out of their way to learn for religious or Their own educational purposes

Hebrew was almost a dead language. Jews in Europe didn’t speak Hebrew from the OT did they? I think it more recently had a resurgence

That’s why throughout history we have the Bible translated to literally every language on earth

To be jewish to is to see god within the word

this imo is the first schism in history.

everything else is irrelevant

read this myth carefully

Typhon - Wikipedia

 

[Marks]

Good thread. Will add on eventually. Just reading through it because I most definitely thought about some shyt that needs to be in here.


Wouldn't say that everything is an illusion. We have the gift and curse of having the human brain. We understand it but then we dont. As humans, we dont fully recognize how deep some of the things we take for granted really are and how they affect us. We have to understand how our brains work in perceiving the world around us.

Yeah we’re blessed, we live in two worlds simultaneously. The manifest world, this material realm but also the one of spirit (imagination/mind). The goal is to bring them into harmony.

 

[MMS]

Genesis 1:6-8

6 And God said, “Let there be an expanse between the waters, to separate the waters from the waters.”

7 So God made the expanse and separated the waters beneath it from the waters above. And it was so.

8 God called the expanse “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day

 

[DoubleClutch]

To be jewish to is to see god within the word

this imo is the first schism in history.

everything else is irrelevant

read this myth carefully

Typhon - Wikipedia

What do you mean by this?

In my opinion to be Jewish is to believe in 1 GOD (Jesus for the Christians) the one thing which separates Gods “chosen people” from others in the OT (and the Church from non believers today).

As far as those Greek/Egyptian/mesopotamia myth creation stories the problem is....

The all involve belief/worship of multiple gods/demigods as well as the stars... even Islam origin derives from ancient Arab tribes pagan moon god worship

And yes they come from the same source/culture and that explains the similarities to the Bible stories