Was RIC Flair a Good In-Ring Worker

[Slic Ric]

it's funny that IMO one of his not Flair's best match is never mentioned when listing his classics

 

[Waterproof]

No, he didn't always switch his formula up. The times he did is memorable, and those are typically his best matches. Flair and Hansen never had a taped match against each other, so unless you were in the Omni in 1978 or 1982, I don't know how you'd know he switched up his formula against Stan Hansen.

Flair lost to Hansen, but Flair put on the show according to the articles

 

[Jmare007]

Bullshyt Flair vs Steamboat is one of the best technical matches in Wrestling history.

Flair vs Funk, Flair vs Vader, Flair vs Stan Hansen. Flair always switched his formula up.

Yeah, and Flair had a fukking great match with Brody that didn't include hardocore stuff

The amount of dope matches with different kind of opponents in different settings is unparalleled in wrestling, specially with someone that has as much footage as Flair has.

The Flair Formula stuff is an issue because he's the only guy people have been saying is the GOAT for 40 years. All these guys in the industry saying he's the undisputed GOAT, even ones that know deep down they're better than him, for decades. People rag on the Hogan formula match too, but no one claims Hogan is the greatest in ring talent of all time in the history of the universe.

Furthermore, his formula match really didn't even make a lot of sense, since he would spend most of the match doing chops and arm work just to go to the figure four in the last few minutes (depending on if it was a 10 or 60 minute match). Like you watch his matches and they're basically just Young Buck/indie flippy shyt of its era, with the flow of the match being beats between big spots, yet the actual story points don't hold up when you look at them. And since he had that pretty similar match for 40 years, it's easy to point out. It's not a logically consistent formula.

That's why his best work is often when he was forced out of it, usually in brawls with guys like Funk/Foley or as a face against the Wolfpac.

People bring up Bret, but Bret didn't have the same match, he had a set of moves he worked into just about every match, but the actual story beats and psychology were different against everyone. The matches at KOTR 93 is some truly king level psychology of completely different matches with completely different opponents yet still using most of the same moves.

Resentment and nitpicking against a guy most people have considered the "undisputed" GOAT is something I understand. But it's a big difference between saying that and making it sound like Naitch was mediocre I also think people resent the fact that someone that has so many regarded matches never "worked smart" nor put much thought into anything he did in the ring.

And I'm sorry but that "formula" worked. I saw a match against Samu in Hawaii that was fun as fukk thanks to Flair being Flair . shyt, God - who I consider better than Flair - had a formula too and it worked like a charm. Same with Stan Hansen. If you wanna go deep with any top performer you can find their formula and say he worked "the same" for at least 80% of their career.

 

[Waterproof]

Flair vs Great Muta, Flair vs Wahoo, Flair vs Magnum TA, Flair vs Nick Brockwinkle, Flair wrestling in Japan. I can go on and on, Flair is The GOAT.

Shawn Michaels had a spark, when Shawn turned heel and his finishing move was the scoop back slam, I was a fan of his. I even said he's the Next Flair, he was a great heel, but then he thought he was bigger than wrestling, started to pick his matches, didn't want to drop the belt, started crying in the ring, picking his spots.

 

[stro]

Yeah, and Flair had a fukking great match with Brody that didn't include hardocore stuff

The amount of dope matches with different kind of opponents in different settings is unparalleled in wrestling, specially with someone that has as much footage as Flair has.



Resentment and nitpicking against a guy most people have considered the "undisputed" GOAT is something I understand. But it's a big difference between saying that and making it sound like Naitch was mediocre I also think people resent the fact that someone that has so many regarded matches never "worked smart" nor put much thought into anything he did in the ring.

And I'm sorry but that "formula" worked. I saw a match against Samu in Hawaii that was fun as fukk thanks to Flair being Flair . shyt, God - who I consider better than Flair - had a formula too and it worked like a charm. Same with Stan Hansen. If you wanna go deep with any top performer you can find their formula and say he worked "the same" for at least 80% of their career.

I didn't say he was mediocre. Flair was obviously above average. His position as GOAT has never worked for me and I can think of quite a few people that I think were better in ring performers than him, which I know I've listed before. Two of his top three greatest rivals are clearly better in the ring than him (Funk and Steamboat).

 

[Slic Ric]

Flair vs Great Muta, Flair vs Wahoo, Flair vs Magnum TA, Flair vs Nick Brockwinkle, Flair wrestling in Japan. I can go on and on, Flair is The GOAT.

Shawn Michaels had a spark, when Shawn turned heel and his finishing move was the scoop back slam, I was a fan of his. I even said he's the Next Flair, he was a great heel, but then he thought he was bigger than wrestling, started to pick his matches, didn't want to drop the belt, started crying in the ring, picking his spots.

Michaels has a amazing catalog too, lets not discredit him and he was a draw

You didn't even mention Flair's matches w/ Morton or Kerry Von Erich

 

[TNC]

He was very good at getting his ass kicked and making it look believable.

What he never did well was pull off competent offense IMO. Even his punches looked soft to me, I never bought him as any sort of tough guy but he was a believable sneaky son of a bytch.

 

[patscorpio]

To Be The GOAT you have to wrestle in any era and Flair can wrestle in any era.

Shawn Michaels wouldn't last when wrestling was shooting and really was stretching and using real wrestling submissions. Lou Thez, Billy Robinson, The Briscos, Greg Gagne would have him tapping and screaming in pain.

Flair used to wrestle that style

Flair wasn't a shooter though..while he wrestled in the era where they were prevalent, he wasn't doing any of that shyt...shyt he wanted to wrestle like dusty rhodes lol..but he was competent on the mat for sure

 

[Waterproof]

Flair wasn't a shooter though..while he wrestled in the era where they were prevalent, he wasn't doing any of that shyt...shyt he wanted to wrestle like dusty rhodes lol..but he was competent on the mat for sure

First of all, Flair was a collegiate wrestler who was one of the best in state, 2nd Flair was trained by the Great Vern Gagne who was one of the greatest Collegiate Wrestler ever and 16x Pro Wrestling Champion, Flair was taught how to wrestle and hook

And when he wanted to shoot and slap on submissions, hooking he would

 

[THE 101]

His conditioning was superb and he was a definite ring general. Is he a master like Eddie? No. Innovative like Rey or Muta? Hell No. But he knows storytelling.

Get the fukk outta here

 

[R=G]

Get the fukk outta here

You don't know what good wrestling is. Admit it

 

[Dave24]

Yes, Flair never bytched or cried in the ring while working

@Waterproof do you think Ric Flair is a better in ring worker than Bret Hart?

 

[Jmare007]

@stro starting to do a 180° on Flair. Might have to retire the Ole nickname

 

[Renzo]

In the sense of being a “worker” and knowing how to work the crowd into believing what they were seeing was real.. yes great worker.

 

[stro]

@stro starting to do a 180° on Flair. Might have to retire the Ole nickname

With age comes wisdom and being open to changing your point of view when new facts present themselves. Flair is one of the GOATs after all