Flair is good in small doses for me. I am more of a Bret guy. More grounded work that made sense. But Flair's mid to late 80s stuff can great because of the molten crowds and when they aren't ruined by Dusty finishes.
He was the shyts. An absolute p*ssy who only knew how to stooge to the crowd and the office. That snaggled toothed c*nt lost every fight he ever tried to start.
One thing that should be taken into consideration was his lack of creativity. I'm not even talking about match formula stuff (well, kinda), but he started his career taking on the Rhodes name trying to be a Dusty clone. That didn't work, so he moved on to taking Buddy Roger's name, look, gimmick, AND finish, Jackie Fargo's strut, then took Harley's and Johnny Valentine's spots and matches, but did them faster. All while never really giving them credit for his success (outside of thanking Harley for dropping the belt to him) while jacking their shyt while they were still active.
Imagine some guy in the 90s in Japan deciding he was going to wear green and white, throw elbows, do a burning hammer, do corner yakuza kicks, throw a jumping knee and yell OHHHH, then call himself The Great Muta.
I never here him being brought up when we ppl talk about the best in ring workers. That's why I askedNo disrespect man but this wasn't worthy of a thread
Man one of the goats
Of course, he was great.
The knock on Flair has always been that he was too formulaic, seen one Flair match seen em all type of deal
Of course he isn’t.boy
So he's a better in ring worker than hbk?
the hilarity is some of people's favorite "wrasslers" like Bret, Angle were even more formulaicWhat I don't get is why is Flair the only great performer that gets a flack for it. Stan Hansen was a bigger formula guy than Flair and he rightfully never gets criticized for it.
And Naitch had like 4 different "formulas" depending on eho he was facing. Him vs Windham is different than vs Jumbo or vs Sting or vs Vader, etc.
the hilarity is some of people's favorite "wrasslers" like Bret, Angle were even more formulaic
He never once attempted a springboard 450, so I can't respect him as a serious worker.
My thing with Bret has always has been that keeps me from putting I'm up there with the BEST of ring workers is that there is a clear cut difference between PPV Bret and TV Bret. People rag on Cena for the 5 moves of doom and stuff, if they only watched Bret on TV. Idk if he ever talked about why he would all but mail it in on TV?The Flair Formula stuff is an issue because he's the only guy people have been saying is the GOAT for 40 years. All these guys in the industry saying he's the undisputed GOAT, even ones that know deep down they're better than him, for decades. People rag on the Hogan formula match too, but no one claims Hogan is the greatest in ring talent of all time in the history of the universe.
Furthermore, his formula match really didn't even make a lot of sense, since he would spend most of the match doing chops and arm work just to go to the figure four in the last few minutes (depending on if it was a 10 or 60 minute match). Like you watch his matches and they're basically just Young Buck/indie flippy shyt of its era, with the flow of the match being beats between big spots, yet the actual story points don't hold up when you look at them. And since he had that pretty similar match for 40 years, it's easy to point out. It's not a logically consistent formula.
That's why his best work is often when he was forced out of it, usually in brawls with guys like Funk/Foley or as a face against the Wolfpac.
People bring up Bret, but Bret didn't have the same match, he had a set of moves he worked into just about every match, but the actual story beats and psychology were different against everyone. The matches at KOTR 93 is some truly king level psychology of completely different matches with completely different opponents yet still using most of the same moves.
The Flair Formula stuff is an issue because he's the only guy people have been saying is the GOAT for 40 years. All these guys in the industry saying he's the undisputed GOAT, even ones that know deep down they're better than him, for decades. People rag on the Hogan formula match too, but no one claims Hogan is the greatest in ring talent of all time in the history of the universe.
Furthermore, his formula match really didn't even make a lot of sense, since he would spend most of the match doing chops and arm work just to go to the figure four in the last few minutes (depending on if it was a 10 or 60 minute match). Like you watch his matches and they're basically just Young Buck/indie flippy shyt of its era, with the flow of the match being beats between big spots, yet the actual story points don't hold up when you look at them. And since he had that pretty similar match for 40 years, it's easy to point out. It's not a logically consistent formula.
That's why his best work is often when he was forced out of it, usually in brawls with guys like Funk/Foley or as a face against the Wolfpac.
People bring up Bret, but Bret didn't have the same match, he had a set of moves he worked into just about every match, but the actual story beats and psychology were different against everyone. The matches at KOTR 93 is some truly king level psychology of completely different matches with completely different opponents yet still using most of the same moves.