Was RIC Flair a Good In-Ring Worker

TripleAgent

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I don’t really get it. I was born in ‘89, so by the time I started watching wrestling, flair was way out of his prime. But I watch his old matches and feel underwhelmed. Dude does the same corny ass contrived spots every single match and wins by the skin of his teeth. He’s a hokey heel version of 1980s Hulk Hogan only with a wider move set. Flair is a 8 or 9 on the mic but I don’t understand the hype over his ring work.
You didn't need 32 moves back then. Between matches not being nationally televised, moving between territories, and most wrestlers ACTUALLY UNDERSTANDING RING PSYCHOLOGY, there were no need for spot monkeys.

Also, Flair going 30 to 60 plus minutes on the regular is nothing short of amazing. It may seem rudimentary in 2021 watching people kick out of 10 finishers a match and killing themselves jumping off shyt, but Flair-Steamboat is wrestling Shakespeare.
 

Hey_zeus

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We need to go a Vs Bret/Flair. 10 best or highest rated matches of each and we vote. End this once and for all in the TSC!
 

El Cocodrilo

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I get the argument I've heard before that it's not good psychology to have a selling routine, cause how does it make sense to get beat up the same way every time ??

But, in my view, that's losing sight of the forest for the trees cause at the end of the day the whole point of any of this is drawing by entertaining people and there ric flair is top tier for a fact
 

Mr. Manhattan

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tell me im not reading Ric Flairs chops and flops,and boring figure 4s are better than the excellence of execution
smh
 

Slic Ric

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Difference between these guys and flair is that his spots seem more like cut scenes from a video game than just the typical five moves of doom. Flair always does that begging on his knees shyt, then the low blow, the bump off the top rope after attempting a cross body, the flair flop and the flip over the rope. He does entire formulaic sequences—it’s not realistic—whereas the other guys just do moves that show up in every match.
You have to understand Flair came up during a time wrestling was a carny act, so his sole purpose was for pops & to keep interest. Also like it was mentioned here, Flair work schedule is INSANE if you read up on it, talking wrestling 360 days, anywhere in the world, for hours. Nobody in the world is gonna have some new each match with that routine
 

Slic Ric

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We need to go a Vs Bret/Flair. 10 best or highest rated matches of each and we vote. End this once and for all in the TSC!
This would actually get ugly for Bret Hart, as his list wouldnt come close
 

Jmare007

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We need to go a Vs Bret/Flair. 10 best or highest rated matches of each and we vote. End this once and for all in the TSC!

Are best matches the end all and be all though? Consistency or "the little things" (body language, charisma, manerisms, selling, timing, etc.) are the kind of nitpicky things that normally show up when comparing two great wrestlers.
 
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Hey_zeus

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Are best matches the end all and be all though? Consistency or "the little things" (body language, charisma, manerisms, selling, timing, etc.) are the kind of nitpicky things that normally show up when comparing to great wrestlers.
We can iron out the qualifications. I agree it has to be somewhat nuanced as this is judging art. Let's get the convo started though. We've been kicking the can on this topic for years. And we've been looking for a reason to do a Versuz why not two birds with one stone this?:manny:
 

Jmare007

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You have to understand Flair came up during a time wrestling was a carny act, so his sole purpose was for pops & to keep interest. Also like it was mentioned here, Flair work schedule is INSANE if you read up on it, talking wrestling 360 days, anywhere in the world, for hours. Nobody in the world is gonna have some new each match with that routine

He also learned to wresle with the idea that 80% to 90% of the time he stepped into a ring, the only people that were watching his match was the live crowd. He wasn't wrestling for people to binge watch 100 matches of his nor a weekly TV viewing experience.

Flair saw wrestling with the mentality he had as a fan. He loved Buddy Rogers and he paid money to watch him do his shtick, Buddy not doing it would left him disappointed as a fan. So he wrestled trying to give the "Nature Boy" experience to the live audience. This became much more prominent after 84', imo. When his Naitch persona was more prominent in a lot of his matches, specially in the "random local territory start challenges the NWA champion" (as previously stated though, he would still change it up depending on his opponent and setting).

Thing was, dude was so damn entertaining he fukked around and ended up finding ways to be engaging even with this "basic" approach. Everything points to Flair not thinking much about doing shyt in the ring that would help him tell a big story that was carefully crafted. He normally had a simple story and found ways to make it entertaining to watch by sprinkling in spots that would pop the crowd. Like I said previously, I usually don't find this approach something that grabs my attention or value highly, but there's something about Flair matches that just feel special to me and way more compelling than a Kurt Angle match, for example (another wrestler that went with that approach more often than not).
 

Slic Ric

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Non bias opinions like yourself are welcome:skip:

No I love Bret Hart as well, I just think Flair is in a league of his own when it comes to "greatest hits" also like said right above me, "Top 10 match" lists should be like 10% of what shows who a great worker is or not. Finn Balor sneaky has a pretty good collection of matches in the last 4/5 years Id put next the rest of the current guys, but I dont think anyone thinks Finn Balor is the best or one of the best workers in the company

He also learned to wresle with the idea that 80% to 90% of the time he stepped into a ring, the only people that were watching his match was the live crowd. He wasn't wrestling for people to binge watch 100 matches of his nor a weekly TV viewing experience.

Flair saw wrestling with the mentality he had as a fan. He loved Buddy Rogers and he paid money to watch him do his shtick, Buddy not doing it would left him disappointed as a fan. So he wrestled trying to give the "Nature Boy" experience to the live audience. This became much more prominent after 84', imo. When his Naitch persona was more prominent in a lot of his matches, specially in the "random local territory start challenges the NWA champion" (as previously stated though, he would still change it up depending on his opponent and setting).

Thing was, dude was so damn entertaining he fukked around and ended up finding ways to be engaging even with this "basic" approach. Everything points to Flair not thinking much about doing shyt in the ring that would help him tell a big story that was carefully crafted. He normally had a simple story and found ways to make it entertaining to watch by sprinkling in spots that would pop the crowd. Like I said previously, I usually don't find this approach something that grabs my attention or value highly, but there's something about Flair matches that just feel special to me and way more compelling than a Kurt Angle match, for example (another wrestler that went with that approach more often than not).
He also learned to wresle with the idea that 80% to 90% of the time he stepped into a ring, the only people that were watching his match was the live crowd. He wasn't wrestling for people to binge watch 100 matches of his nor a weekly TV viewing experience.

Flair saw wrestling with the mentality he had as a fan. He loved Buddy Rogers and he paid money to watch him do his shtick, Buddy not doing it would left him disappointed as a fan. So he wrestled trying to give the "Nature Boy" experience to the live audience. This became much more prominent after 84', imo. When his Naitch persona was more prominent in a lot of his matches, specially in the "random local territory start challenges the NWA champion" (as previously stated though, he would still change it up depending on his opponent and setting).

Thing was, dude was so damn entertaining he fukked around and ended up finding ways to be engaging even with this "basic" approach. Everything points to Flair not thinking much about doing shyt in the ring that would help him tell a big story that was carefully crafted. He normally had a simple story and found ways to make it entertaining to watch by sprinkling in spots that would pop the crowd. Like I said previously, I usually don't find this approach something that grabs my attention or value highly, but there's something about Flair matches that just feel special to me and way more compelling than a Kurt Angle match, for example (another wrestler that went with that approach more often than not).
Agreed, His approach is different than all these guys after him, Wrestling was a circus act that was viewed as a live event only
 
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