Was '99 the year when Wu Tang started to show cracks in the armor with jawns like Rae's Immobilarity, GZA's Beneath the Surface, Dirt's Ni$%a Please+

[King Sun]

Rae my favorite Wu member but he's always been a curmudgeon

Forever could've been trimmed down some but they were lyrically at their peak, and there are so many bangers on there that when I sit down to do the 'trimming' for a playlist it's difficult (besides black shampoo )

People that hate wu forever or think it's a step down from 36 is wild. Always though forever was better to me because everyone lyrically improved and the beats sounded bigger grimy mainstream. Then again I didn't get into the wu like that until 97 and I'm from LA.

 

[Whips-n-Chains]

Wu-Tang Forever is a classic. Yes, it wasn't 36 Chambers, but everything had elevated - their lyrics, styles, the beats. It was like nothing that ever came before it. Forever didn't sound like any other Wu album. But it wouldn't be for another couple of years until fans realized that NONE of their albums sounded anything alike.

But also it did have a hard cutoff as to the reception, because by the end of the summer, it was dead. Until then, Wu-albums used to carry you through the next album. Forever dropped, had a hard cutoff, and then white noise until....The Swarm? Whether you want to say the Hot97 incident played a role, Rage Against the Machine tour, their disgruntlement...or RZA's involvement into other ventures, or even their lyrics going into another direction against the landscape that was coming, the album didn't have the same immediate lasting effect as they did before.

However, from '97 on through like '00, the Killabeez more than carried the flag. Killarmy, La the Darkman, Sunz, KP, Shy, Wu-Syndicate...all dope to great albums

I get you're saying the album was "dead" but by fall that year, Wu Tang was at their peak popularity within, but also outside of the hip hop community. They had completed their crossover to the skate community, Rage tour, performing at MTV's Skate & Music fest in fall 97, they were at the VMAs, Wu Wear was in major department stores, etc.

And you're right about the affiliates carrying the flag...Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars and then Heist of the Century are "underground" classics.

 

[BmoreGorilla]

For those saying Forever was a disappointment, how did you handle Tical upon release? That's the definition of "expecting a classic and getting just a dope album" to me. Tical isn't some complete dud like Tha Doggfather, but it was def a disappointing. It's THE example of a 4 mic album...dope, but something is just off enough to where it's no higher than 4 mics.

Return to the 36 Chambers far exceeds Tical.

I liked Forever but it was a step down for me compared to the first album and the solos. I liked Tical and wasn’t really disappointed becuz I didn’t have any expectations

 

[Whips-n-Chains]

I liked Forever but it was a step down for me compared to the first album and the solos. I liked Tical and wasn’t really disappointed becuz I didn’t have any expectations

I'd say in overall cohesiveness and overall quality, that Forever is a small step down. But you'll have that from a double LP from a 9 (10?) member group. Lyrically it was a significant step up from every Wu release besides maybe Ironman (still a step up from Ironman, lyrically but not as significant).

 

[tuckgod]

97 is the year the Wu ended.

 

[Awesome Wells]

I liked Forever but it was a step down for me compared to the first album and the solos. I liked Tical and wasn’t really disappointed becuz I didn’t have any expectations

Truth.

Forever was definitely a step down. Even the members in Wu and RZA acknowledge it wasn't on par with the debut and albums that followed. But for a lot of people who loved it, this was their first time f*cking with Wu, so they're sentimental about it. But for those of us who were there from the start, we were all disappointed for a reason.

A lot of people were let down by Tical too. It wasn't wack, but Meth was one of the most anticipated MC's back then. And that kinda started for us like summer '93. So we thought he was about to drop something on the level of a Doggystyle or some sh*t. Tical was cool, but it just didn't match the hype at the time.

 

[BmoreGorilla]

Truth.

Forever was definitely a step down. Even the members in Wu and RZA acknowledge it wasn't on par with the debut and albums that followed. But for a lot of people who loved it, this was their first time f*cking with Wu, so they're sentimental about it. But for those of us who were there from the start, we were all disappointed for a reason.

A lot of people were let down by Tical too. It wasn't wack, but Meth was one of the most anticipated MC's back then. And that kinda started for us like summer '93. So we thought he was about to drop something on the level of a Doggystyle or some sh*t. Tical was cool, but it just didn't match the hype at the time.

Yea the Meth album was highly anticipated by everybody. TBH I was more hyped about Redman’s second album tho and when it dropped it completely overshadowed Tical for me. I got both for Christmas in 94

 

[FunkDoc1112]

Wu-Tang Forever is good, but it's flat. And highkey, True Master and 4th Disciple had the best beats on the album.

 

[I love Latina women]

Bad take repeated ad nauseum. Aka “white people like wu now so we cant time to move on”

Anyone who said that wu forever was an attempt to be commercial (lmao) is hating for the sake of it. Stretch and bob lost it by 97 and i see why. Horrid take by them.

Most anti commercial album that ever existed in genre that hit #1.

6 min song with no hook as single = commercial? classical sounds = commercial? 20 min of straight bars on side 2 without a hook in sight ? The big famous classic sample style was in style att and rza went against it completely and barely sampled period. 5% message really resonated with white people huh lmao. No hooks = pop? The densest lyrical display in whole genre = going commercial….

No album went against the grain harder during peak popularity on a major. No single a bigger risk.

Summer school opinions need not apply

There are no songs on forever that are fun for traditional commercial viability. Its a serious conscious album by a street rap group known for other things. Horrrrrrid take by them. Anti commercial maybe.

CASUAL/“i have my finger on the pulse” aka trend hoppers never fukked with wu forever and woulda moved on anyway. They never rock with anyone for long. Who cares what they think.

Wu forever literally CEMENTED WU as all timers. They are here TODAY because of its success. Hence why on their final tour, forever is the main course.

Rae chased those fans his whole career trying to sound like everyone else and failed over and over and only found success again going back to the formula.

Albums literally a litmus test for attention span. Saying wu forever is weak lets me know someones hip hop speed.

You obv had summer school from failing vocab tests because you dont know what commercial means. That or you never gave ut a true listen.

Saying forever is commercial is like saying ghost never made sense. Just shyt people repeat without knowing what they talking about.


Shoulda picked up that wu tang double cd …

Bruh, anything Wu related your bias as hell about because your a huge fan of theirs


I’ve seen you say call a lot of their weak and wack albums good


You the type of nikka that would say U God’s albums are classics

 

[Tribal Outkast]

Beneath the surface gave me a motherfukkin classic!!


Played this song so much when I bought that album. Album was decent but he was not going to top liquid swords.

 

[I love Latina women]

Imma keep it real and I know nikkas will hate this opinion

But Only Built 4 Cuban PART 2 is overrated as hell

It was impossible for Raekwon to ever capture the magic they had on the original but Part 2 is very overrated online

A few alright songs here and there but a lot of the mixtapes he released before it were better


And all his other albums either flat, wack or forgettable


That just goes to show you it takes a lot to make a classic album and the brilliance of everyone being on the same page and in sync with one another

Raekwon got the rhymes but he needs a a great producer to work with again to help him with his albums

 

[I love Latina women]

Beneath the surface gave me a motherfukkin classic!!


Played this song so much when I bought that album. Album was decent but he was not going to top liquid swords.

I love GZA and Ol’ Dirty but this shyt was so lazy

 

[Awesome Wells]

Yea the Meth album was highly anticipated by everybody. TBH I was more hyped about Redman’s second album tho and when it dropped it completely overshadowed Tical for me. I got both for Christmas in 94

Red was my favorite MC at the time, so I was mad hype for the second album to drop too.

I've been playing that album ever since, nonstop. LOL!!

 

[Zero]

I liked Raekwons sophomore album

Stop it

 

[Zero]

If nikkas can't appreciate what Deck did on Forever, there's nothing to discuss.