Was '99 the year when Wu Tang started to show cracks in the armor with jawns like Rae's Immobilarity, GZA's Beneath the Surface, Dirt's Ni$%a Please+

[BuddahMAC]

Forever is a classic. Rhymes and beats are leveled up and the dumb "too much filler" comments always fade whenever people start making their tracklists and people argue how their favorites are taken off. Some knew then, some figured it out in the year 2G, some got some spins to go.


To the thread title, 99 was the year things started to shift because that's when most the released projects were outside of RZA's oversight. To that end, some tried to chase sounds of the moment, some tried to establish their own things, some tried to be weird with it, but they all started dropping solo albums by Wu-Tang Clan members while everything before then were Wu-Tang Clan solo albums if you understand the distinction.

 

[Mike Wins]

We didn't want 36 Chambers, we just wanted the quality level of Liquid Swordz and OB4CL. To this day, Forever doesn't get played 1/10th as much as those albums.

I listen to Forever more than any of the group albums today and I'm as it gets.

Cuban Linx, Liquid Swordz, Ironman and SC my top 4. 36 is classic as classic gets and the rawness can't be replicated, but them pre-Illmatic green eggs and ham cartoon rhymes was so rudimentary compared to what they was dropping a few years later.

 

[Barney Rubble]

I listen to Forever more than any of the group albums today and I'm as it gets.

Cuban Linx, Liquid Swordz, Ironman and SC my top 4. 36 is classic as classic gets and the rawness can't be replicated, but them pre-Illmatic green eggs and ham cartoon rhymes was so rudimentary compared to what they was dropping a few years later.

I listen to 36 more, but yeah, some of the rhymes didn't age well. But, my point was Liquid Swords and OB4CL had risen Wu to god status and that's what we knew they were capable of, so that's what we expected. The hype for that album was probably the most in hiphop history, and probably unfair, but still, we wanted perfection but only got dope.

 

[Mike Wins]

I listen to 36 more, but yeah, some of the rhymes didn't age well. But, my point was Liquid Swords and OB4CL had risen Wu to god status and that's what we knew they were capable of, so that's what we expected. The hype for that album was probably the most in hiphop history, and probably unfair, but still, we wanted perfection but only got dope.

I respect it. Just wanted to point out that to a lot of us, it did live up to the hype, Forever will always be legendary status in my circle but if your experience was different I get that.

 

[TrifeGod]

If we talking about the main chambers, Ghost made up for in 2000

 

[MurderToCassette]

Thread reminded me I lost my Supreme Clientele tape

 

[Bugzbunny129]

Rae disagrees, and Ghost has said similar shyt. They might have their problems with RZA but I agree completely with his feelings on the album. It's in his book, but he talks about it on Vlad, too. fukk Vlad, but I made an exception for this clip.

Rae thinks immobilarity is a classic so …

 

[Pegasus Jackson]

97’ if we being honest

Most older heads won’t feeling Wu Forever


then the second wave of all those second solos and RZA’s Bobby Digital album was the nail in the coffin

Where the fukk is this narrative coming from? I was 19-20 when Forever dropped and we were fukking LOVING it.. even here in Atlanta. It was a seismic event.. Now after that is a another story... nikka Please was FAR cry from Return and I only heard bits and pieces of Deck's album driving home from Tower Records with my boy who bought it when it dropped... wasn't feeling it. Bobby Digital grew one me. .somewhat.

 

[I love Latina women]

Where the fukk is this narrative coming from? I was 19-20 when Forever dropped and we were fukking LOVING it.. even here in Atlanta. It was a seismic event.. Now after that is a another story... nikka Please was FAR cry from Return and I only heard bits and pieces of Deck's album driving home from Tower Records with my boy who bought it when it dropped... wasn't feeling it. Bobby Digital grew one me. .somewhat.

The older heads I was around

My sister
My brother in law
My cousins
nikkas in my hood

They all felt like Forever wasn’t elite Wu

And that was in VA

 

[Pegasus Jackson]

Dudes didn’t feel Forever because it wasn’t 36 Chambers, that’s all. It’s the same way dudes didn’t feel IWW since it wasn’t Illmatic.

Nah.. Forever at least had the ethos of 36 Chambers. It was Written felt like damn near the complete inverse of Illmatic at the time and I wasn't fukking with a lot of it. I've learned to LIKE not love it now.

 

[Awesome Wells]

these are TERRIBLE takes

Having an opinion is a "terrible take" now?

All of us ain't gonna front and lie to make people comfortable about Wu in '97, bro. LOL!!

Forever was the end of that run. In real time, in NYC back then, mad people didn't like most of it. We still don’t.

 

[Awesome Wells]

The coli never admits this, maybe they were too young, but the aura started to fade when Forever dropped. People don't understand the expectations we had for that album. We expected CLASSIC CLASSIC, not 4 mics.

Facts.

Thing is, a lot of their opinions are based on others' opinions. They're scared to tell the truth, a lot of time, lol.

Like you said, we just spent 4 years copping consecutive Wu classics. The run was nonstop from 36 Chambers to Iron Man. No misses. RZA at his very best! Then this dropped, and everybody was confused. I remember a few different underground radio shows like NY Live and Stretch and Bobbito had issues with the album and felt like it was a reach to be commercial. A lot of people felt the same. But suburbia and MTV loved it! A lot of the original fans wrote it off immediately. RZA always talks about how this album is when the OG fans left, and the white fans hopped on.

 

[Bugzbunny129]

Facts.

Thing is, a lot of their opinions are based on others' opinions. They're scared to tell the truth, a lot of time, lol.

Like you said, we just spent 4 years copping consecutive Wu classics. The run was nonstop from 36 Chambers to Iron Man. No misses. RZA at his very best! Then this dropped, and everybody was confused. I remember a few different underground radio shows like NY Live and Stretch and Bobbito had issues with the album and felt like it was a reach to be commercial. A lot of people felt the same. But suburbia and MTV loved it! A lot of the original fans wrote it off immediately. RZA always talks about how this album is when the OG fans left, and the white fans hopped on.

Bad take repeated ad nauseum. Aka “white people like wu now so we cant time to move on”. Sadly the album was literally made for black fans yet its repeated non stop by casual know it alls. Ridiculous.

Anyone who said that wu forever was an attempt to be commercial (lmao) is hating for the sake of it. Stretch and bob lost it by 97 and i see why. Horrid take by them.

Most anti commercial album that ever existed in genre that hit #1.

6 min song with no hook as single = commercial? classical sounds = commercial? 20 min of straight bars on side 2 without a hook in sight ? The big famous classic sample style was in style att and rza went against it completely and barely sampled period. 5% message really resonated with white people huh lmao. No hooks and The densest lyrical display in whole genre = going commercial….

No album went against the grain harder during peak popularity on a major. No single a bigger risk.

Summer school opinions need not apply

There are no songs on forever that are fun for traditional commercial viability in classic hip hop way. Its a serious conscious album by a street rap group known for other things. Horrrrrrid take by them. Anti commercial maybe. Its anti catchy.

CASUAL/“i have my finger on the pulse” aka trend hoppers never fukked with wu forever and woulda moved on anyway. They never rock with anyone for long. Who cares what they think. Thats why rappers come and go. But the casuals mad they mever affected wu cuz mainstream or not, they still had a bigger presence than most. People got tired of it 30 albums deep. Its not rockey science. It was no longer shiny.

Wu forever literally CEMENTED WU as all timers. They are here TODAY because of its success. Hence why on their final tour, forever is the main course.

Rae chased those fans his whole career trying to sound like everyone else and failed over and over and only found success again going back to the formula.

Albums literally a litmus test for attention span. Saying wu forever is weak lets me know someones hip hop speed. Theres like 5 ehish songs out of the 27 or so on there. First cd was always called a “CLASSIC”. Its disk 2 that lost people because of rhyme overload. Not cuz it was bad.

You obv had summer school from failing vocab tests because you dont know what commercial means. That or you never gave ut a true listen.

Saying forever is commercial is like saying ghost never made sense. Just shyt people repeat without knowing what they talking about. Kinda like “wu fell off after forever”. Albums that cause fall offs arent celebrated like wu forever is.


Shoulda picked up that wu tang double cd …

 

[Whips-n-Chains]

For those saying Forever was a disappointment, how did you handle Tical upon release? That's the definition of "expecting a classic and getting just a dope album" to me. Tical isn't some complete dud like Tha Doggfather, but it was def a disappointing. It's THE example of a 4 mic album...dope, but something is just off enough to where it's no higher than 4 mics.

Return to the 36 Chambers far exceeds Tical.

 

[nieman]

Wu-Tang Forever is a classic. Yes, it wasn't 36 Chambers, but everything had elevated - their lyrics, styles, the beats. It was like nothing that ever came before it. Forever didn't sound like any other Wu album. But it wouldn't be for another couple of years until fans realized that NONE of their albums sounded anything alike.

But also it did have a hard cutoff as to the reception, because by the end of the summer, it was dead. Until then, Wu-albums used to carry you through the next album. Forever dropped, had a hard cutoff, and then white noise until....The Swarm? Whether you want to say the Hot97 incident played a role, Rage Against the Machine tour, their disgruntlement...or RZA's involvement into other ventures, or even their lyrics going into another direction against the landscape that was coming, the album didn't have the same immediate lasting effect as they did before.

However, from '97 on through like '00, the Killabeez more than carried the flag. Killarmy, La the Darkman, Sunz, KP, Shy, Wu-Syndicate...all dope to great albums

Reunited - classic
For Heaven's Sake - classic
Scary Hours - classic
Visionz - dope
As High As Wu-Tang Get - dope
Severe Punishment - classic
Older Gods - classic
Maria - solid
A Better Tomorrow - dope
It's Yourz - dope

Triumph - classic
Impossible - classic
Little Ghetto Boys - dope
Deadly Melody - dope
The City - solid
Projects - solid
Bells Of War - classic
MGM - dope
Dog shyt - novelty, comedy
Duck Seazon - solid
Hellz Wind Staff - classic
Heaterz - dope
Black Shampoo - filler
Second Coming - alright

And the album was considered a disappointment by some sorry, just can't see it.

A Better Tomorrow is classic to me & The City is dope, but Maria is ehhhh, As High As Wu is solid