Was '99 the year when Wu Tang started to show cracks in the armor with jawns like Rae's Immobilarity, GZA's Beneath the Surface, Dirt's Ni$%a Please+

[Pegasus Jackson]

For those saying Forever was a disappointment, how did you handle Tical upon release? That's the definition of "expecting a classic and getting just a dope album" to me. Tical isn't some complete dud like Tha Doggfather, but it was def a disappointing. It's THE example of a 4 mic album...dope, but something is just off enough to where it's no higher than 4 mics.

Return to the 36 Chambers far exceeds Tical.

I bought Tical the DAY it dropped and was most definitely underwhelmed. Too short and felt rushed. Some dope stuff on it still. Forever is a goddamn masterpiece. .commercial? Where?

 

[Whips-n-Chains]

Yea the Meth album was highly anticipated by everybody. TBH I was more hyped about Redman’s second album tho and when it dropped it completely overshadowed Tical for me. I got both for Christmas in 94

 

[Yagirlcheatinonus]

Stop it

I personally liked the album

 

[mbewane]

.... or the year before when RZA solo-joint dropped and it wasn't "The Cure" . . .

I always felt that the Ghost Dog OST was the type of sound I wanted to get from a RZA album. Dark, grity and kind of poetic still. Tracks like these, Sunshower, Tragedy could've been the foundation for a pretty solid RZA album. I like Bobby Digital in Stereo though tbh.

Agreed but they recovered in 2000 with SC and The W. It was really over after that.

And the affiliates dropped some classic material in 97, 98 and 99. The first two Killarmy albums, Sunz of Man, Killah Priest, Cappa, La The Darkman, Wu Syndicate all had dope albums.

The Swarm, Ghost OST (both versions), all dope albums. Problem is you also had those more loosely affiliated cats like Royal Fam or Buddah Monk dropping albums that kind of diluted the power of the logo. They weren't necessarily bad, but hadn't the same quality even as the affiliates you named.

That's what RZA said, but he wasn't blameless either though, lol.

They stopped sticking together, and RZA started wanting to branch out to do other things. So he wasn't focused on the beats as much, so the tracks got wacker. Then certain dudes in the group didn't want to cut management their share anymore and felt they could manage themselves. It was a damn mess. And it really seems like they never fixed any of that.

It was also by design as Forever marked the end of the 5-year plan and RZA's "dictatorship".

It sad because as quickly as it came together and they hit their stride, it fell apart quicker

It was predicted on Duel of the Iron Mic :

 

[Whips-n-Chains]

I bought Tical the DAY it dropped and was most definitely underwhelmed. Too short and felt rushed. Some dope stuff on it still. Forever is a goddamn masterpiece. .commercial? Where?

Forever def isn't commercial. I think some people mean to say "polished" as it's not nearly as grimy as 36 Chambers or the solos. It doesn't have that recorded in a sewer sound...But if you listen to Ironman, it's not really grimy at all either, it has that Blaxploitation sound that Ghost became known for. The grittiest songs are probably The Faster Blade (Rae solo) and Assassination Day (essentially a Forever prelude).

Ironically, that was Hip-Hop's evolution in a nutshell...the artform was evolving so fast that every artist made tweaks to their lyrics and overall sound as years progressed...Dre's production sound on The Chronic changed by Doggystyle and changed even more by the time he was making beats in 95/96. Hell on Earth is more sinister sounding, but not as gritty as The Infamous. Ready to Die to LAD, Illmatic to IWW, Enta Da Stage to the 95/96 BCC stuff, etc. So its a bit disingenuous to criticize Forever for it sounded more polished and less grimy/underground, b/c the entire genre had shifted from 1995 grimey to a more polished sound by 96 and beyond.

 

[Pegasus Jackson]

Yea the Meth album was highly anticipated by everybody. TBH I was more hyped about Redman’s second album tho and when it dropped it completely overshadowed Tical for me. I got both for Christmas in 94

"MONTH OF THE MAN" Def Jam ad campaign. Dare is definitely the better album. Way better.

 

[Whips-n-Chains]

It was predicted on Duel of the Iron Mic :

It took me years to put that together

"At the height of their fame and glory, they turned on one another
Each struggling in vain for ultimate supremacy
In the passion and depth of their struggle
The very art that had raised them to such Olympian heights was lost
Their techniques vanished"

 

[Whips-n-Chains]

"MONTH OF THE MAN" Def Jam ad campaign. Dare is definitely the better album. Way better.

Agreed. Dare is damn near flawless

 

[Yagirlcheatinonus]

They used to play this joint on the radio all the time. It was a good single for GZA

 

[Yagirlcheatinonus]

As somebody who has been a Wu fan since 36 Chambers I can say part of the problem is the fans. You got the die hard fans that want 36 Chambers and everything all their debut work. Anything outside of that is trash. Then once Forever came they become commercial and very big so their white/Chinese fans want a certain sound. They was trying to please too many crowds then music was changing. Rzas beats wasn’t the same he didn’t want them dealing with other producer like that. The W was the last W album I really got hyped for.

 

[Morose Polymath]

Nah 98 when that god awful Cappadonna album dropped. It was all downhill from there till Supreme Clientele dropped in 2000

We gonna milk this cow the best way we know how

You my man, 100-Grand but you wildin! The Pillage was

"I opened up my rap bible, then the light shined over the children/
As it began to rain, I started buildin/

 

[BmoreGorilla]

Had this picture on my wall

 

[BmoreGorilla]

You my man, 100-Grand but you wildin! The Pillage was

"I opened up my rap bible, then the light shined over the children/
As it began to rain, I started buildin/

I hated that album

I tried listening to it again not that long ago and was rudely reminded. I liked 3 songs on there

 

[MisterMajesty]

That's what RZA said, but he wasn't blameless either though, lol.

They stopped sticking together, and RZA started wanting to branch out to do other things. So he wasn't focused on the beats as much, so the tracks got wacker. Then certain dudes in the group didn't want to cut management their share anymore and felt they could manage themselves. It was a damn mess. And it really seems like they never fixed any of that.

What u think they coulda done different? despite being top 1. I always felt like wu underachieved. No way with that much talent, should their run have been that short

 

[BmoreGorilla]

What u think they coulda done different? despite being top 1. I always felt like wu underachieved. No way with that much talent, should their run have been that short

Personally I feel like them all having solo deals as a gift and curse. We got some of the best hip hop albums ever from those solo deals and they revolutionized the game. But it obviously caused some of their egos to blow up outta control. I don’t think there’s anything they coulda done different tho