He's not even prime Jrue
“Villanova Dogs and a Domesticated WildKAT... Make It Make Sense..." Official 2024 NY Knicks off-season Thread
- Thread starter DPresidential
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Ironman
#Knickstape
In The Zone '98
Superstar
Wargames
One Of The Last Real Ones To Do It
That isn’t the issue with Trae and Murray. You can watch a few games and the issues are clear. It’s not a offensive issue. Dejuante is averaging 20/5/5, Trae is averaging 28/3/11. Bogdon who is the third guard (aka the Hawks DDV in this hypothetical) is averaging 17 pts a game. None of them have dropped off in efficiency either.
The Hawks Defense just sucks overall and that is the biggest issue. They can’t stop shyt annd Young is targeted by opposing guard. Capella might be done, Hunter is injury prone and out. Trae takes a lot of bad shots every game foul hunting.
If there are chemistry issue between them and I think part of that is on Snyder because there doesn’t seem to be any offensive plans overall between them. You don’t see them pass in transition because the offense calls for whoever has the ball to try and beat the defenders getting in their defensives stances and then if they can’t beat them they pass out to the other ball handler to see if they have a mismatch and after that they then get into their offense.
@ECA I know you’re not watching the Hawks if your talking about the offense between Trae and Murray being why they suck or the amount of touches.
ISO
Pass me the rock nikka
I think they can be ok together it’s Randle that stands to suffer.
Wargames
One Of The Last Real Ones To Do It
I fukk’s with Perk.
RJ, Quick and now Grimes. Should’ve just did the Donovan Mitchell deal if that was the case
The Athletic Article and boy it’s a doozy
A Monday afternoon collapse made what was already true even more apparent.
The New York Knicks understood before the 98-94 loss to the Orlando Magic that they needed someone other than Jalen Brunson who could initiate offense. Such was clear from how aggressively they have conversed with the rest of the league ever since trading for OG Anunoby at the end of December. Parting with Immanuel Quickley and RJ Barrett meant losing contributors who could create off the dribble.
Now, the Knicks are trying to recoup some of what they forfeited. Throughout January, they have been on the phones, surveying other teams for present-day help, according to league executives who have been in contact with them.
The absence of an extra creator is even more obvious after the way the offense has suffocated over the past two games, which Brunson missed with a calf injury. New York could use another facilitator behind its soon-to-be All-Star.
With nearly three weeks to go until the NBA trade deadline, the Knicks’ priorities are taking shape. The goal, according to league sources familiar with the organization’s thinking, is to add someone who could help the team today and also has a contract that would be attractive in a hypothetical trade for a star this upcoming summer. But acquiring a talented player takes giving up something good, too.
One name to watch is Quentin Grimes.
The Knicks are actively fielding offers for the former first-round pick, according to rival executives who have been in contact with New York’s front office.
The approach signals a change from only a year or two ago when the Knicks clutched onto Grimes in trade talks. The 23-year-old has fallen out of favor with head coach Tom Thibodeau of late, losing the starting shooting guard job to Donte DiVincenzo on Dec. 8 and seeing his playing time decrease from 30 minutes a game in 2022-23 to 17 since moving to the second unit.
Here is more about Grimes, the Knicks’ objectives, possible help, Evan Fournierand more as the Feb. 8 trade deadline approaches:
Since sending Quickley and Barrett to the Toronto Raptors in the trade that brought back Anunoby, Precious Achiuwa and Malachi Flynn, the Knicks have cratered in the sans-Brunson minutes. Over the nine games following the deal, they are scoring only 104.8 points per 100 possessions with Brunson on the bench, compared to 125.9 while he is in the game.
For perspective, if that 104.8 points-per-100 figure belonged to a team this season, that team would place last in the NBA by far. Meanwhile, 125.9 per 100 would blow away the greatest offense of all time.
Scoring cratered once again during the loss to the Magic, especially during the fourth quarter, when the Knicks let go of a lead and clunked to only 16 points in the period.
The Knicks hold preferences beyond player type, too; they are also seeking specific types of contracts.
The long-term plan remains to add a star to the core that’s already present, but the organization still does not expect that star, whoever he may be, to become available until this summer at the earliest, league sources tell The Athletic.
After the Anunoby trade, Grimes is the sole young player the Knicks could throw into a deadline deal. Thus, if they traded Grimes, they would want someone on a contract they consider tradeable in return, a player with a salary preferably in the teens or low $20 million that would be attractive to a franchise dealing away a star in June or July, according to league sources.
The Knicks could pair Evan Fournier — who is on an expiring, $18.9 million contract — with Grimes to bring back a contract of that size.
Some players who fit that description include (in no particular order): the Portland Trail Blazers’ Malcolm Brogdon, the Utah Jazz’s Jordan Clarkson and Collin Sexton, the Charlotte Hornets’ Terry Rozier, the Indiana Pacers’ Bruce Brown and T.J. McConnell, the Atlanta Hawks’Bogdan Bogdanović, the Cleveland Cavaliers’ Caris LeVert and the Dallas Mavericks’ Tim Hardaway Jr.
The New York Knicks understood before the 98-94 loss to the Orlando Magic that they needed someone other than Jalen Brunson who could initiate offense. Such was clear from how aggressively they have conversed with the rest of the league ever since trading for OG Anunoby at the end of December. Parting with Immanuel Quickley and RJ Barrett meant losing contributors who could create off the dribble.
Now, the Knicks are trying to recoup some of what they forfeited. Throughout January, they have been on the phones, surveying other teams for present-day help, according to league executives who have been in contact with them.
The absence of an extra creator is even more obvious after the way the offense has suffocated over the past two games, which Brunson missed with a calf injury. New York could use another facilitator behind its soon-to-be All-Star.
With nearly three weeks to go until the NBA trade deadline, the Knicks’ priorities are taking shape. The goal, according to league sources familiar with the organization’s thinking, is to add someone who could help the team today and also has a contract that would be attractive in a hypothetical trade for a star this upcoming summer. But acquiring a talented player takes giving up something good, too.
One name to watch is Quentin Grimes.
The Knicks are actively fielding offers for the former first-round pick, according to rival executives who have been in contact with New York’s front office.
The approach signals a change from only a year or two ago when the Knicks clutched onto Grimes in trade talks. The 23-year-old has fallen out of favor with head coach Tom Thibodeau of late, losing the starting shooting guard job to Donte DiVincenzo on Dec. 8 and seeing his playing time decrease from 30 minutes a game in 2022-23 to 17 since moving to the second unit.
Here is more about Grimes, the Knicks’ objectives, possible help, Evan Fournierand more as the Feb. 8 trade deadline approaches:
What are the Knicks’ goals?
The Knicks are targeting an extra ballhandler, someone who can help hold up the offense when Brunson is on the bench or even play alongside him. Thibodeau said following Monday’s game that Brunson remains day to day.Since sending Quickley and Barrett to the Toronto Raptors in the trade that brought back Anunoby, Precious Achiuwa and Malachi Flynn, the Knicks have cratered in the sans-Brunson minutes. Over the nine games following the deal, they are scoring only 104.8 points per 100 possessions with Brunson on the bench, compared to 125.9 while he is in the game.
For perspective, if that 104.8 points-per-100 figure belonged to a team this season, that team would place last in the NBA by far. Meanwhile, 125.9 per 100 would blow away the greatest offense of all time.
Scoring cratered once again during the loss to the Magic, especially during the fourth quarter, when the Knicks let go of a lead and clunked to only 16 points in the period.
The Knicks hold preferences beyond player type, too; they are also seeking specific types of contracts.
The long-term plan remains to add a star to the core that’s already present, but the organization still does not expect that star, whoever he may be, to become available until this summer at the earliest, league sources tell The Athletic.
After the Anunoby trade, Grimes is the sole young player the Knicks could throw into a deadline deal. Thus, if they traded Grimes, they would want someone on a contract they consider tradeable in return, a player with a salary preferably in the teens or low $20 million that would be attractive to a franchise dealing away a star in June or July, according to league sources.
The Knicks could pair Evan Fournier — who is on an expiring, $18.9 million contract — with Grimes to bring back a contract of that size.
Some players who fit that description include (in no particular order): the Portland Trail Blazers’ Malcolm Brogdon, the Utah Jazz’s Jordan Clarkson and Collin Sexton, the Charlotte Hornets’ Terry Rozier, the Indiana Pacers’ Bruce Brown and T.J. McConnell, the Atlanta Hawks’Bogdan Bogdanović, the Cleveland Cavaliers’ Caris LeVert and the Dallas Mavericks’ Tim Hardaway Jr.
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In the future, The Athletic will run through hypothetical trade candidates and surmise about what each could cost to acquire.
New York has been unwilling to part with unprotected first-round picks in trades, league sources said. The organization hopes to save them up for this anonymous star. But a trade such as last year’s for Josh Hart, when the Knicks sent out a protected first-rounder along with a matching salary, is on the table, league sources said.
They own four protected first-rounders from other teams: the Detroit Pistons’pick in 2024, the Dallas Mavericks’ in 2024, the Washington Wizards’ in 2024 and the Milwaukee Bucks’ in 2025. The Dallas one is likely to convey this season.
The preference is not to flip Grimes for a player the Knicks could lose in free agency this upcoming summer, league sources said.
The front office wanted to hand opportunities to 23-year-old point guard Miles McBride, who was out of the rotation, and Grimes, who was losing playing time to DiVincenzo and Hart.
McBride’s role has revved up, especially with him starting in Brunson’s place for the past two games. He went for a career-high 20 points Monday. But Grimes, save for a couple of performances when his minutes climbed into the low 20s, has maintained.
Over the past two games, with Brunson out and Hart struggling, Grimes has played a total of 29 minutes.
It’s a surprising turn, given how Thibodeau once viewed the third-year sharpshooter. The Knicks coach was a major advocate behind drafting Grimes No. 25 in 2021. He was a driving force in the mission not to include him in past trades.
At some point in the past year, that changed. The addition of DiVincenzo has complicated the situation, too.
A week into December, Grimes lost the starting shooting guard job to DiVincenzo, a player with similar size and style that the Knicks signed to a four-year contract last summer. Because of their overlapping qualities, Thibodeau has veered away from playing those two together, instead placing at least one of the bigger wings (Barrett, Hart or Anunoby) alongside them. Grimes and DiVincenzo have played only 36 minutes together all season.
Thibodeau says he’s been hesitant to deploy Grimes-DiVincenzo lineups because of size. DiVincenzo is more comfortable defending guards. Hart is the same height as them but has a brawnier build. But Thibodeau also used to trust Grimes to defend all types of perimeter players, from guards like Trae Young to big wings like Pascal Siakam.
Considering how well DiVincenzo has played during his first season with the Knicks (11.2 points per game in only 21.9 minutes to go with 43 percent 3-point shooting and pesky defense), it’s meant less time for Grimes.
Now, it may mean a new home for him, too.
It’s no guarantee the Knicks trade Grimes before Feb. 8. No deal is imminent, according to team sources. But the wheels are already turning on a possible exit. If New York doesn’t part with Grimes in the next three weeks, it could finally pull the trigger this upcoming summer.
The Knicks are coming to a crossroads with Grimes, who is eligible after the season for an extension off his rookie-scale contract, the same type of deal that Quickley could have received but did not in 2023. Of course, New York flipped Quickley to Toronto. The roster will become expensive only a year later when they hope to have Anunoby still in town (which will take a premium new contract) and when Brunson and Julius Randle can hit free agency. If both continue this level of play, they will receive significant raises.
It means the Knicks’ ideal trade candidate today fits the following criteria:
• Someone who Thibodeau trusts
• Someone on a tradeable salary
• Someone with at least one more year remaining after this one on his contract
• Someone who can run the offense when Brunson is hurt or resting
There are limitations to throwing the former Raptors — Anunoby, Achiuwa or Flynn — into deals, too.
The Knicks are allowed to trade any of those three players (though they, of course, would not trade Anunoby), but because the deal with the Raptors was less than 60 days before Feb. 8, they cannot aggregate any of those three with other players.
For example, if the Knicks traded Flynn or Achiuwa, they could sweeten the deal only with draft picks or draft rights — not with any other players currently on the roster.
Since being traded to the Knicks, Precious Achiuwa has been backing up Isaiah Hartenstein at center. (Tim Heitman / Getty Images)
Robinson, who underwent ankle surgery in early December, is not expected to undergo an official re-evaluation until mid-February. But the Knicks are increasingly optimistic about his return this season, according to a team source, and that optimism will affect how they operate over the next few weeks.
The Knicks already have Robinson, Isaiah Hartenstein and Achiuwa, who has backed up Hartenstein since the Toronto trade. Jericho Sims, who started the first five games after Robinson got hurt, is the third-string center right now. If Robinson returns, everyone slides down a peg: Hartenstein to the reserves and maybe Achiuwa out of the rotation.
New York has been unwilling to part with unprotected first-round picks in trades, league sources said. The organization hopes to save them up for this anonymous star. But a trade such as last year’s for Josh Hart, when the Knicks sent out a protected first-rounder along with a matching salary, is on the table, league sources said.
They own four protected first-rounders from other teams: the Detroit Pistons’pick in 2024, the Dallas Mavericks’ in 2024, the Washington Wizards’ in 2024 and the Milwaukee Bucks’ in 2025. The Dallas one is likely to convey this season.
The preference is not to flip Grimes for a player the Knicks could lose in free agency this upcoming summer, league sources said.
Latest on Grimes
The Anunoby trade wasn’t just about the players inside the deal. It also was about a duo on the bench.The front office wanted to hand opportunities to 23-year-old point guard Miles McBride, who was out of the rotation, and Grimes, who was losing playing time to DiVincenzo and Hart.
McBride’s role has revved up, especially with him starting in Brunson’s place for the past two games. He went for a career-high 20 points Monday. But Grimes, save for a couple of performances when his minutes climbed into the low 20s, has maintained.
Over the past two games, with Brunson out and Hart struggling, Grimes has played a total of 29 minutes.
It’s a surprising turn, given how Thibodeau once viewed the third-year sharpshooter. The Knicks coach was a major advocate behind drafting Grimes No. 25 in 2021. He was a driving force in the mission not to include him in past trades.
At some point in the past year, that changed. The addition of DiVincenzo has complicated the situation, too.
A week into December, Grimes lost the starting shooting guard job to DiVincenzo, a player with similar size and style that the Knicks signed to a four-year contract last summer. Because of their overlapping qualities, Thibodeau has veered away from playing those two together, instead placing at least one of the bigger wings (Barrett, Hart or Anunoby) alongside them. Grimes and DiVincenzo have played only 36 minutes together all season.
Thibodeau says he’s been hesitant to deploy Grimes-DiVincenzo lineups because of size. DiVincenzo is more comfortable defending guards. Hart is the same height as them but has a brawnier build. But Thibodeau also used to trust Grimes to defend all types of perimeter players, from guards like Trae Young to big wings like Pascal Siakam.
Considering how well DiVincenzo has played during his first season with the Knicks (11.2 points per game in only 21.9 minutes to go with 43 percent 3-point shooting and pesky defense), it’s meant less time for Grimes.
Now, it may mean a new home for him, too.
It’s no guarantee the Knicks trade Grimes before Feb. 8. No deal is imminent, according to team sources. But the wheels are already turning on a possible exit. If New York doesn’t part with Grimes in the next three weeks, it could finally pull the trigger this upcoming summer.
The Knicks are coming to a crossroads with Grimes, who is eligible after the season for an extension off his rookie-scale contract, the same type of deal that Quickley could have received but did not in 2023. Of course, New York flipped Quickley to Toronto. The roster will become expensive only a year later when they hope to have Anunoby still in town (which will take a premium new contract) and when Brunson and Julius Randle can hit free agency. If both continue this level of play, they will receive significant raises.
It means the Knicks’ ideal trade candidate today fits the following criteria:
• Someone who Thibodeau trusts
• Someone on a tradeable salary
• Someone with at least one more year remaining after this one on his contract
• Someone who can run the offense when Brunson is hurt or resting
Restrictions on Knicks players
They can’t trade Hart or McBride before Feb. 8. Both signed recent extensions, which makes them ineligible to be traded until after this season.There are limitations to throwing the former Raptors — Anunoby, Achiuwa or Flynn — into deals, too.
The Knicks are allowed to trade any of those three players (though they, of course, would not trade Anunoby), but because the deal with the Raptors was less than 60 days before Feb. 8, they cannot aggregate any of those three with other players.
For example, if the Knicks traded Flynn or Achiuwa, they could sweeten the deal only with draft picks or draft rights — not with any other players currently on the roster.
Since being traded to the Knicks, Precious Achiuwa has been backing up Isaiah Hartenstein at center. (Tim Heitman / Getty Images)
Center market
The Knicks have been less aggressive in searching for a center than they have been for a facilitator, league sources told The Athletic, especially with the hopefulness around Mitchell Robinson’s return.Robinson, who underwent ankle surgery in early December, is not expected to undergo an official re-evaluation until mid-February. But the Knicks are increasingly optimistic about his return this season, according to a team source, and that optimism will affect how they operate over the next few weeks.
The Knicks already have Robinson, Isaiah Hartenstein and Achiuwa, who has backed up Hartenstein since the Toronto trade. Jericho Sims, who started the first five games after Robinson got hurt, is the third-string center right now. If Robinson returns, everyone slides down a peg: Hartenstein to the reserves and maybe Achiuwa out of the rotation.
But the backup five has been an issue for the Knicks since the Anunoby trade. Achiuwa is on the fringe of Thibodeau’s circle of trust and has sat for entire second halves more than once already, most recently during Saturday’s win in Memphis.
When the Knicks acquired Achiuwa, who will be a restricted free agent after the season, they figured he could be insurance for Hartenstein during the upcoming summer, providing a cheaper option in case the German center becomes too expensive or chooses to leave in free agency.
It would be difficult to justify adding another center to the mix unless it took parting with someone like Sims or Achiuwa and little else to upgrade the backup spot until Robinson is healthy.
The Knicks have no plans to trade Hartenstein, who has reached new levels since entering the starting lineup last month.
The team has held onto Fournier, who has seldom played over the past 15 months, for this exact reason. He makes $18.9 million this season and has a team option for 2024-25. New York could pair him with another player, such as Grimes, or picks to bring back a rotation player. The Knicks believe his expiring salary is an asset inside a league filled with teams desperate to shed long-term salary in a second-apron world.
But New York also is starting to look ahead to the summer, when pressure will rise to pull off that trade for a star and when it will have to decide on Fournier’s $19 million option.
If the Knicks have a trade for a star locked in on draft night, they could pick up Fournier’s 2024-25 option and include his expiring salary in the deal, an act that remains on the table, according to league sources. The deadline to exercise Fournier’s option is June 29 — after the draft but the day before free agency begins. What they don’t want is to pick up the option blindly only to learn that no star trades materialize in July and that the team is stuck once again with a $19 million player who never plays.
It’s why the Knicks would prefer to flip Fournier before Feb. 8 for someone who makes a similar amount and is under contract in 2024-25. Come next summer, they could then use that player along with a mix of other mid-salaried guys to match the money coming back on a giant contract.
The Knicks can trade up to four unprotected first-round picks and up to three unprotected first-round swaps, which they are saving for the star. They also have those four protected first-rounders that belong to other teams.
The Dallas pick, which is top 10 protected, is most likely to convey this summer. Including it with Fournier and Grimes could sweeten a February deal even more. The Washington and Detroit selections are both heavily protected and will not be conveyed this year.
(Photo of Quentin Grimes: Michael Reaves / Getty Images)
When the Knicks acquired Achiuwa, who will be a restricted free agent after the season, they figured he could be insurance for Hartenstein during the upcoming summer, providing a cheaper option in case the German center becomes too expensive or chooses to leave in free agency.
It would be difficult to justify adding another center to the mix unless it took parting with someone like Sims or Achiuwa and little else to upgrade the backup spot until Robinson is healthy.
The Knicks have no plans to trade Hartenstein, who has reached new levels since entering the starting lineup last month.
Latest on Fournier
With apologies to the cool kids, we’re about to geek out about contracts. Such is a requirement when discussing the Knicks and Fournier.The team has held onto Fournier, who has seldom played over the past 15 months, for this exact reason. He makes $18.9 million this season and has a team option for 2024-25. New York could pair him with another player, such as Grimes, or picks to bring back a rotation player. The Knicks believe his expiring salary is an asset inside a league filled with teams desperate to shed long-term salary in a second-apron world.
But New York also is starting to look ahead to the summer, when pressure will rise to pull off that trade for a star and when it will have to decide on Fournier’s $19 million option.
If the Knicks have a trade for a star locked in on draft night, they could pick up Fournier’s 2024-25 option and include his expiring salary in the deal, an act that remains on the table, according to league sources. The deadline to exercise Fournier’s option is June 29 — after the draft but the day before free agency begins. What they don’t want is to pick up the option blindly only to learn that no star trades materialize in July and that the team is stuck once again with a $19 million player who never plays.
It’s why the Knicks would prefer to flip Fournier before Feb. 8 for someone who makes a similar amount and is under contract in 2024-25. Come next summer, they could then use that player along with a mix of other mid-salaried guys to match the money coming back on a giant contract.
The Knicks can trade up to four unprotected first-round picks and up to three unprotected first-round swaps, which they are saving for the star. They also have those four protected first-rounders that belong to other teams.
The Dallas pick, which is top 10 protected, is most likely to convey this summer. Including it with Fournier and Grimes could sweeten a February deal even more. The Washington and Detroit selections are both heavily protected and will not be conveyed this year.
(Photo of Quentin Grimes: Michael Reaves / Getty Images)
I know we joke a lot as a fan base about the Knicks and the draft. But with Obi, RJ, Quick and the imminent trade of Grimes we better start drafting somebody.