Verzuz Presents: Fat Joe vs Ja Rule 9/14 @ 9PM ET

[mobbinfms]

Even underground songs had singing on them though.

Ok. What’s your point?
Are you disputing that there was an underground mainstream divide? That singing and R&B loops weren’t looked down upon by a significant portion of the core audience in the early to mid 90s? With the divide largely disappearing in the late 90s to early 2000s?

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

When n1ggaz say 50 would lose a versuz, do yall realize how big In da club and 21 questions is? Then his mixtape sh1t. I smell pu$$y. You not like me. Then go to the massacre. Fifs first 2 albums are only rivaled by Bigs first 2.

Lmao
The massacre is a very average album.

Despite its success

 

[mobbinfms]

Stop inserting Mobb Deep in all things concerning solo acts

I’m not inserting Mobb Deep into anything. I’m expressing bewilderment at the idea that 50s first two albums can only be rivaled by Bigs.

 

[JustCKing]

Ok. What’s your point?
Are you disputing that there was an underground mainstream divide? That singing and R&B loops weren’t looked down upon by a significant portion of the core audience in the early to mid 90s? With the divide largely disappearing in the late 90s to early 2000s?

Of course there was a divide between the underground and mainstream, but it wasn't the core audience that looked down on singing and R&B loops. That was more of purists and backpackers that took issue with it. The R&B loops didn't really get out of hand until the late 90's when The Trackmasters and Puffy & The Hitmen had all these hits with recognizable samples and it was inescapable.

 

[mobbinfms]

Of course there was a divide between the underground and mainstream, but it wasn't the core audience that looked down on singing and R&B loops. That was more of purists and backpackers that took issue with it. The R&B loops didn't really get out of hand until the late 90's when The Trackmasters and Puffy & The Hitmen had all these hits with recognizable samples and it was inescapable.

Purists and backpackers were a significant part of the core audience. People who just listened to what was on the radio weren’t the core audience.
The R&B loops with a singer on the hook template started in 94 and really took off in 95-96. Juicy, Fast Life, Sugar Hill, etc. By 97 Bad Boy was mining flat out pop music in addition to R&B and by 98-99 Swizz, Timbo, Manny and the Neptunes had completely shifted the sound.

 

[JustCKing]

Purists and backpackers were a significant part of the core audience. People who just listened to what was on the radio weren’t the core audience.
The R&B loops with a singer on the hook template started in 94 and really took off in 95-96. Juicy, Fast Life, Sugar Hill, etc. By 97 Bad Boy was mining flat out pop music in addition to R&B and by 98-99 Swizz, Timbo, Manny and the Neptunes had completely shifted the sound.

There are lot of people who didn't just listen to the radio that weren't either backpackers or purists that also made up a significant portion of the core audience.

 

[Playaz Eyez]

I just watch it. I enjoyed it for the most part. I wish Ja had dipped more in his street/ album cut bag in the 1st half to match Fat Joes energy. Like how you play Between me and you after Deep Cover . I woulda loved to have heard Dial M for Murder, 6 Feet underground and Maybe Race against time. We all know Ja got hits but people dont give props to how good his other stuff is.

The 2nd half coulda been more about hits and Ja just got wayyy too many to beat on stage. On top of that he still sounds great live. Thats really why he won this and why he woulda washed 50 too. If they were just playing songs it might go to 50. But when you add the performance part too it just different. 50 made the right call to duck him. Be stupid to give Ja a W on him this late in the game.

The deep cover with Remy was flames. Def my fav performance of the event.

Because Ja Rule knew what kind of crowd it was and Fat Joe didn’t. Fat Joe was dead set on attempting to cosplay Jadakiss and it didn’t work.

 

[mobbinfms]

There are lot of people who didn't just listen to the radio that weren't either backpackers or purists that also made up a significant portion of the core audience.

Yep.
Remember my original post on this subject was in response to @Asicz argument that non-black people’s aversion to R&B was the reason that Ja isn’t held in higher regard. My counter to that was the underground mainstream divide. Of course we also have to remember that Ja never had the rep as a spitter to get away with making girl songs and of course 50 coming through and crushing the buildings.

 

[JustCKing]

Yep.
Remember my original post on this subject was in response to @Asicz argument that non-black people’s aversion to R&B was the reason that Ja isn’t held in higher regard. My counter to that was the underground mainstream divide. Of course we also have to remember that Ja never had the rep as a spitter to get away with making girl songs and of course 50 coming through and crushing the buildings.

Rappers who were spitters got away with making "girl songs". Look at Biggie. And I don't really see the buildings 50 crushed being that Ja was on the down side of his peak when 50 mania took over. Then 50 started making cheesier more corner girl songs than Ja. At least some of the "girl songs" Ja made were good.

 

[mobbinfms]

Rappers who were spitters got away with making "girl songs". Look at Biggie.

Exactly. That was my point. My bad if it wasn’t clear.

And I don't really see the buildings 50 crushed being that Ja was on the down side of his peak when 50 mania took over. Then 50 started making cheesier more corner girl songs than Ja. At least some of the "girl songs" Ja made were good.

Completely disagree. Not only did 50 get him out the paint in real time, he tarnished his reputation to today. Now he’s played out like Kwame and those fukking polka dots.

 

[JustCKing]

Exactly. That was my point. My bad if it wasn’t clear.

Completely disagree. Not only did 50 get him out the paint in real time, he tarnished his reputation to today. Now he’s played out like Kwame and those fukking polka dots.

Ja was already played out by 2003. He ran that whole style into the ground, tried going back to the streets with Blood In My Eye and it was too late by that point. Ja Rule was a triple platinum artist in 2001 to barely going platinum by 2003.

 

[Playaz Eyez]

Ja was already played out by 2003. He ran that whole style into the ground, tried going back to the streets with Blood In My Eye and it was too late by that point. Ja Rule was a triple platinum artist in 2001 to barely going platinum by 2003.

Exactly. People were souring on Ja Rule before 50 took over, which made it even easier to get Ja out the paint by the time he did. And 50 definitely hi-jacked Ja’s formula for female oriented songs and made worse versions of them. I wasn’t a fan of Ja, but those songs HIT. Stuff like Just A Lil Bit, 21 Questions, Baby By Me, Candy Shop and Best Friend were far inferior to what Ja was making. Those Ja songs stand the test of time. The 50 Cent ones are pretty much unlistenable today.

 

[Deltron]

Ja was already played out by 2003. He ran that whole style into the ground, tried going back to the streets with Blood In My Eye and it was too late by that point. Ja Rule was a triple platinum artist in 2001 to barely going platinum by 2003.

still remember when the reign premiered on 106, audience was like

50 was just the straw the broke the camels back (no hov)

 

[mobbinfms]

Ja was already played out by 2003. He ran that whole style into the ground, tried going back to the streets with Blood In My Eye and it was too late by that point. Ja Rule was a triple platinum artist in 2001 to barely going platinum by 2003.

Exactly. People were souring on Ja Rule before 50 took over, which made it even easier to get Ja out the paint by the time he did. And 50 definitely hi-jacked Ja’s formula for female oriented songs and made worse versions of them. I wasn’t a fan of Ja, but those songs HIT. Stuff like Just A Lil Bit, 21 Questions, Baby By Me, Candy Shop and Best Friend were far inferior to what Ja was making. Those Ja songs stand the test of time. The 50 Cent ones are pretty much unlistenable today.

still remember when the reign premiered on 106, audience was like

50 was just the straw the broke the camels back (no hov)

Wasnt 50 already huge all through 2002 and dissing Ja on mixtapes?

 

[JustCKing]

Wasnt 50 already huge all through 2002 and dissing Ja on mixtapes?

That wasn't going to turn the tide on an artist as big as Ja was. People were already tired of Ja. 50 was more or less who people latched onto once they were done with Ja. Basically, Ja Rule was what 50 became in 2007. Kanye didn't necessarily kill 50's career as much as people felt like 50 fell off and Kanye was more likeable and popular so people rode with Ye.