Verzuz Present: SWV vs Xscape | 5/8 8PM ET

[nieman]

See this is the history rewrite because ya'll know full well JD was NEVER the face of ATL. JD has spent his a lot of his career being underrated because he stood in the shadows of other ATL artists even some of the artists he helped put on. Nobody ever looked at Jermaine Dupri as the face of Atlanta the way they look at OutKast, Lil' Jon, Usher, T.I., Jeezy or even a Gucci Mane.

Yes, the story of how Kriss Kross being discovered was something that was widely talked about, but it wasn't BECAUSE of JD, it was because THEY WERE DISCOVERED AT A MALL. The fact that you don't even note that it was Greenbriar Mall further pushes my point home. In 1992, who really cared that it was JD or a Greenbriar Mall. Kriss Kross was the reason JD became known. Yes, he produced the group, but JD wasn't the household name, Kriss Kross was. JD wasn't guesting on A Different World, Kriss Kross was. JD wasn't in the video for Michael Jackson's "Jam", Kriss Kross was.

And while we're at it, with all this talk about JD putting Atlanta, he wasn't even the biggest producer in the city at that point. Ya'll completely overlook Dallas Austin when he produced the bulk of TLC's debut. While Boyz II Men definitely isn't Atlanta, Dallas helmed their debut as well. Dallas Austin also produced Another Bad Creation, which as mentioned is an Atlanta group. They blew before Kriss Kross came out. I'm not saying Dallas Austin put Atlanta on either, but if you're gonna say Jermaine Dupri, you might as well throw Dallas in there too.

Point of it all, is that I'm willing to bet most of you NEVER associated Jermaine Dupri with Atlanta until '94/'95 ish, which by then Kast had taken off and they were unmistakably ATL. You didn't have to read a press release, interview, or research where they were from. Their videos were shot in Atlanta. Their slang was Atlanta. They wore the Braves jerseys and caps. If you'd never set foot in Atlanta, one listen to Southernplayalistic gave you a tour of the different hoods and night spots in Atlanta and the whole culture and feel of the city.

You kind of did though. While Outkast were the first group to really rep ATL in the music, you still knew JD and Kriss Kross were from ATL. JD was all in their videos and in every early interview. The way we found out they were from ATL were through the interviews, the same as everyone else. We had to connect the dots, because no one was reppin ATL. We knew Kriss Kross were discovered at a mall (but they were on Ruffhouse) and Xscape were the first group of So So Def. Once SoSo Def came around we knew it was an ATL based company. We even thought Da Brat was from ATL, because of JD...actually we first thought Funkdafied was the new Kriss Kross song for about a week. We knew LaFace was based out of ATL, but Babyface nor LA were from there, but we kind of assumed that every artist on LaFace were from ATL. We knew TLC had 2 ATL girls, and Left Eye was from Philly. We thought Usher was from ATL, and Babyface's nephew. So So Def & LaFace were the cornerstones of ATL music for the early 90s.

If you're from ATL, I guess it's kind of different, but from the outside they were ATL because of associated acts. It's not like anyone from ATL were screaming their neighborhood like NYC boroughs, Philly, West Coast...until Outkast. Even after Dungeon Family, people still weren't reppin ATL until early 00's.

 

[Deltron]

wonder what rosentard's reactions will be

 

[JustCKing]

You kind of did though. While Outkast were the first group to really rep ATL in the music, you still knew JD and Kriss Kross were from ATL. JD was all in their videos and in every early interview. The way we found out they were from ATL were through the interviews, the same as everyone else. We had to connect the dots, because no one was reppin ATL. We knew Kriss Kross were discovered at a mall (but they were on Ruffhouse) and Xscape were the first group of So So Def. Once SoSo Def came around we knew it was an ATL based company. We even thought Da Brat was from ATL, because of JD...actually we first thought Funkdafied was the new Kriss Kross song for about a week. We knew LaFace was based out of ATL, but Babyface nor LA were from there, but we kind of assumed that every artist on LaFace were from ATL. We knew TLC had 2 ATL girls, and Left Eye was from Philly. We thought Usher was from ATL, and Babyface's nephew. So So Def & LaFace were the cornerstones of ATL music for the early 90s.

If you're from ATL, I guess it's kind of different, but from the outside they were ATL because of associated acts. It's not like anyone from ATL were screaming their neighborhood like NYC boroughs, Philly, West Coast...until Outkast. Even after Dungeon Family, people still weren't reppin ATL until early 00's.

And this was my point, if you had to connect dots, read interviews and what not before concluded that these artists were from Atlanta, then it proves what I was saying. How can you say someone is the face of a city that you didn't even know they were from without having to research it? And it's contradictory to say you still knew JD and Kriss Kross were from Atlanta when you had to read to find out they were from Atlanta. That's a far cry from putting a city on and even a further cry from being the face of a city. So I don't see what the argument is here because this is consistent with what I've been saying all along.

Thinking Da Brat was from ATL is also telling because she dropped her debut a few months AFTER Kast. Her singles had that same G-Funk sound and vibe that Kast's songs had. By the time Brat's debut dropped, Kast was already Gold. Xscape's debut dropped like 6 months before Kast. So my point is still a valid one. And the bolded is really what I was getting at. And yes, people were screaming ATL after OutKast. After 1994, you heard Atlanta shouted out on records by people who weren't even from Atlanta.

 

[nieman]

And this was my point, if you had to connect dots, read interviews and what not before concluded that these artists were from Atlanta, then it proves what I was saying. How can you say someone is the face of a city that you didn't even know they were from without having to research it? And it's contradictory to say you still knew JD and Kriss Kross were from Atlanta when you had to read to find out they were from Atlanta. That's a far cry from putting a city on and even a further cry from being the face of a city. So I don't see what the argument is here because this is consistent with what I've been saying all along.

Thinking Da Brat was from ATL is also telling because she dropped her debut a few months AFTER Kast. Her singles had that same G-Funk sound and vibe that Kast's songs had. By the time Brat's debut dropped, Kast was already Gold. Xscape's debut dropped like 6 months before Kast. So my point is still a valid one. And the bolded is really what I was getting at. And yes, people were screaming ATL after OutKast. After 1994, you heard Atlanta shouted out on records by people who weren't even from Atlanta.

We had to research everything back then though. That was kind of the point. I'm sorry if my response came through that way, but i was saying we knew they were ATL because of the interviews. We read the articles in Word Up, Right on, watched them on Video Soul, Teen Summit, Arsenio Hall. That's how we found out TLC was from ATL, or LaFace was a ATL based company. Once you knew where they were based, you assumed everyone associated with them were from there.

Da Brat & Kriss Kross were still bigger in '94 than Outkast. That's all because of JD. Xscape was bigger than Kast. Funkdafied and Give It To You got more radio play than Playa's Ball in Philly, so did Just Kick It & Understanding. Once again, that's JD. And with it being JD already established as being an ATL producer with an ATL based company, he was the face of Atlanta music, and all of his artists were from ATL. You can't apply modern views to how it was then. We assumed everyone on LaFace was from ATL simply because of where the company was based, not because the R&B acts were saying ATL.

Kast didn't even blow up to where Kriss Kross were until Aquemini.

 

[folasade]

Im shocked they didnt announce a new song or album

I'm glad they didn't. That was the worst part about Brandy vs. Monica.

 

[JustCKing]

We had to research everything back then though. That was kind of the point. I'm sorry if my response came through that way, but i was saying we knew they were ATL because of the interviews. We read the articles in Word Up, Right on, watched them on Video Soul, Teen Summit, Arsenio Hall. That's how we found out TLC was from ATL, or LaFace was a ATL based company. Once you knew where they were based, you assumed everyone associated with them were from there.

Da Brat & Kriss Kross were still bigger in '94 than Outkast. That's all because of JD. Xscape was bigger than Kast. Funkdafied and Give It To You got more radio play than Playa's Ball in Philly, so did Just Kick It & Understanding. Once again, that's JD. And with it being JD already established as being an ATL producer with an ATL based company, he was the face of Atlanta music, and all of his artists were from ATL. You can't apply modern views to how it was then. We assumed everyone on LaFace was from ATL simply because of where the company was based, not because the R&B acts were saying ATL.

Kast didn't even blow up to where Kriss Kross were until Aquemini.

Everything didn't have to be researched in 1994. There was a lot that was pretty much understood. You didn't have to go looking through magazines to know where Dre and Snoop were from. Same goes for Wu and Biggie.

You could argue Da Brat was bigger than Kast, but Kriss Kross in 1994 is laughable. You're reaching with that one. JD in 1994 was not bigger than no OutKast. This isn't applying modern views to anything. Again, even if you go beyond who was screaming ATL, you know full well no one thought of JD as the face of Atlanta at any given point in time especially during the 90's. None of you were seeing Atlanta like this from anyone before OutKast:

^^^ Peep Dre's jersey

Look at these videos:





Yet, people talking about "oh we saw JD in TLC and Kriss Kross videos and it clicked that he was from ATL" and "yeah, we read the articles and saw interviews from Kriss Kross and just assumed everyone associated with JD was from ATL" vs. seeing a group rocking Braves jerseys, crusing through Atlanta in their videos, and rapping about Atlanta in their songs. And no you're not going to get that from R&B because it's different altogether. R&B was nowhere near as divided by region as Hip Hop was. Nobody cared where those artists were from, which is why R&B really didn't put Atlanta on the map like that.

Breh, Kast and Kriss Kross both released albums in 1996. I don't even have to say which one was bigger between ATLiens and Young, Rich, and Dangerous. Throw Da Brat's sophomore effort in there as well. No contest. JD dropped his debut album in 1998, the same year as Kast, and had a single that featured Mariah Carey. Kast dropped Aquemini with songs that weren't that big on the charts and still outsold JD. Now you could argue "but this was Kast's third album, but JD's first", but it kills this whole notion that people outside of Atlanta viewed JD as the face of a city.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

Everything didn't have to be researched in 1994. There was a lot that was pretty much understood. You didn't have to go looking through magazines to know where Dre and Snoop were from. Same goes for Wu and Biggie.

You could argue Da Brat was bigger than Kast, but Kriss Kross in 1994 is laughable. You're reaching with that one. JD in 1994 was not bigger than no OutKast. This isn't applying modern views to anything. Again, even if you go beyond who was screaming ATL, you know full well no one thought of JD as the face of Atlanta at any given point in time especially during the 90's. None of you were seeing Atlanta like this from anyone before OutKast:


Yet, people talking about "oh we saw JD in TLC and Kriss Kross videos and it clicked that he was from ATL" and "yeah, we read the articles and saw interviews from Kriss Kross and just assumed everyone associated with JD was from ATL" vs. seeing a group rocking Braves jerseys, crusing through Atlanta in their videos, and rapping about Atlanta in their songs. And no you're not going to get that from R&B because it's different altogether. R&B was nowhere near as divided by region as Hip Hop was. Nobody cared where those artists were from, which is why R&B really didn't put Atlanta on the map like that.

Breh, Kast and Kriss Kross both released albums in 1996. I don't even have to say which one was bigger between ATLiens and Young, Rich, and Dangerous. Throw Da Brat's sophomore effort in there as well. No contest. JD dropped his debut album in 1998, the same year as Kast, and had a single that featured Mariah Carey. Kast dropped Aquemini with songs that weren't that big on the charts and still outsold JD. Now you could argue "but this was Kast's third album, but JD's first", but it kills this whole notion that people outside of Atlanta viewed JD as the face of a city.

you been going at this for pages and there's clearly way more posters who knew JD/So So Def was an ATL thing and feel he represented it, was key in building it up, or whatever. like at some point you might need to accept that maybe it's YOU who don't feel like JD repped it or that you don't associate him with putting ATL on. but you got posters from east to west all arguing that we did, so there's no regional bias there.

 

[904Lurker]

I need
Ginuwine vs JOE
8ball&MJG vs Goodie Mob or UGK

 

[JustCKing]

you been going at this for pages and there's clearly way more posters who knew JD/So So Def was an ATL thing and feel he represented it, was key in building it up, or whatever. like at some point you might need to accept that maybe it's YOU who don't feel like JD repped it or that you don't associate him with putting ATL on. but you got posters from east to west all arguing that we did, so there's no regional bias there.

But all of the arguments in defense of JD being this face of the city or putting the city on is trivial BS like:

"we saw him in TLC and Kriss Kross videos" all while admitting that you didn't even know who he was at the time or you found out who he was later. There was nothing in those cameos that tied him to Atlanta.

"he produced Kriss Kross", but again admitting that knowing Kriss Kross was from Atlanta was predicated on reading about it in a magazine.

Most importantly, I already agreed that yes Jermaine Dupri played a pivotal role in Atlanta coming up. That is undeniable. But NONE of you are seeing how laughable and crazy it is for ya'll to not only sit up here and claim that a man that you had no clue was from Atlanta without reading about it was the face of a city. Not only that, but a lot of you attempted to rewrite history several times in this thread. One of which, was a claim that he produced the first platinum kid act, when I proved that Another Bad Creation was before Kriss Kross. I am not the one who is in error here or being stubborn. Any body who reads through this whole exchange could see that.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

But all of the arguments in defense of JD being this face of the city or putting the city on is trivial BS like:

"we saw him in TLC and Kriss Kross videos" all while admitting that you didn't even know who he was at the time or you found out who he was later. There was nothing in those cameos that tied him to Atlanta.

"he produced Kriss Kross", but again admitting that knowing Kriss Kross was from Atlanta was predicated on reading about it in a magazine.

Most importantly, I already agreed that yes Jermaine Dupri played a pivotal role in Atlanta coming up. That is undeniable. But NONE of you are seeing how laughable and crazy it is for ya'll to not only sit up here and claim that a man that you had no clue was from Atlanta without reading about it was the face of a city. Not only that, but a lot of you attempted to rewrite history several times in this thread. One of which, was a claim that he produced the first platinum kid act, when I proved that Another Bad Creation was before Kriss Kross. I am not the one who is in error here or being stubborn. Any body who reads through this whole exchange could see that.

i guess breh, my recognition of JD goes back to 92, i cannot pinpoint how or when i knew who he was, maybe there was a making of "baby baby baby"...either way, i knew who he was with TLC and Kriss Kross so when he was dropping xscape & brat, i definitely knew who he was, where he was from and his label. JD was very much one of the first people who introduced me to ATL

 

[folasade]

Atlantic Starr vs. DeBarge would be fire. I just have no interest in seeing DeBarge in their condition up there

If they remained sober and healthy I would have really enjoyed it. They have a lot of great songs.

 

[nieman]

i guess breh, my recognition of JD goes back to 92, i cannot pinpoint how or when i knew who he was, maybe there was a making of "baby baby baby"...either way, i knew who he was with TLC and Kriss Kross so when he was dropping xscape & brat, i definitely knew who he was, where he was from and his label. JD was very much one of the first people who introduced me to ATL

Pretty much the same for me too.

But all of the arguments in defense of JD being this face of the city or putting the city on is trivial BS like:

"we saw him in TLC and Kriss Kross videos" all while admitting that you didn't even know who he was at the time or you found out who he was later. There was nothing in those cameos that tied him to Atlanta.

"he produced Kriss Kross", but again admitting that knowing Kriss Kross was from Atlanta was predicated on reading about it in a magazine.

Most importantly, I already agreed that yes Jermaine Dupri played a pivotal role in Atlanta coming up. That is undeniable. But NONE of you are seeing how laughable and crazy it is for ya'll to not only sit up here and claim that a man that you had no clue was from Atlanta without reading about it was the face of a city. Not only that, but a lot of you attempted to rewrite history several times in this thread. One of which, was a claim that he produced the first platinum kid act, when I proved that Another Bad Creation was before Kriss Kross. I am not the one who is in error here or being stubborn. Any body who reads through this whole exchange could see that.

Whether or not you feel like he repped ATL enough is moot, simply because everyone associated him and his acts with ATL. You don't have to scream it out if it was known. You don't have to be decked out in all ATL gear to rep where you from. We had Task Force, 100x, Da Youngstas, The Roots, 1/2 of Illegal, Fresh Prince, Cool C/Steady B - and no one was decked in Phiilies/Eagles/76ers jerseys to rep Philly. He wasn't hiding it. In '92 how did you know where someone was not from NYC? You read the interviews, or watched them. How did you find out Com was from Chi during Soul by the Pound? You read the interview. Where's Boss from? We thought she was Cali. She was on a West Coast label, and had West Coast influence. We found out she was from what..Detroit, from an article. Fine, I found out all where all of them were from because of articles. We were all reading magazines though. You read the album credits and saw his name all over 2 KK albums and Da Brat album. He was all over Xscape album...and Organized Noise. He had credits on TLC album. Did you buy these albums? Did you read the credits?

Da Brat was bigger than Kast in '94. Outkast were just another group with a little buzz. Kriss Kross wasn't, but where KK was in '91-'92, Outkast didn't reach until '98. Xscape was bigger than Kast then as well. So '91-94, JD's name was behind some of the biggest acts for a couple of years, you knew where he was from, yet he wasn't the face because he wasn't wearing Braves jerseys?

 

[JustCKing]

Pretty much the same for me too.



Whether or not you feel like he repped ATL enough is moot, simply because everyone associated him and his acts with ATL. You don't have to scream it out if it was known. You don't have to be decked out in all ATL gear to rep where you from. We had Task Force, 100x, Da Youngstas, The Roots, 1/2 of Illegal, Fresh Prince, Cool C/Steady B - and no one was decked in Phiilies/Eagles/76ers jerseys to rep Philly. He wasn't hiding it. In '92 how did you know where someone was not from NYC? You read the interviews, or watched them. How did you find out Com was from Chi during Soul by the Pound? You read the interview. Where's Boss from? We thought she was Cali. She was on a West Coast label, and had West Coast influence. We found out she was from what..Detroit, from an article. Fine, I found out all where all of them were from because of articles. We were all reading magazines though. You read the album credits and saw his name all over 2 KK albums and Da Brat album. He was all over Xscape album...and Organized Noise. He had credits on TLC album. Did you buy these albums? Did you read the credits?

Da Brat was bigger than Kast in '94. Outkast were just another group with a little buzz. Kriss Kross wasn't, but where KK was in '91-'92, Outkast didn't reach until '98. Xscape was bigger than Kast then as well. So '91-94, JD's name was behind some of the biggest acts for a couple of years, you knew where he was from, yet he wasn't the face because he wasn't wearing Braves jerseys?

And you're missing the point. Who claimed any of those people were the face of the respective cities they were from?

What I'm saying is how can JD be the face of a city or put on a city when ya'll didn't even know he was from said city without reading about it. Go ahead and lie and tell me you saw JD in a TLC or Kriss Kross video and instantly thought about Atlanta. Lie and tell me that you saw JD in those videos and actually cared who he was. Ya'll bogus knowing full well JD wasn't a factor until after he did Da Brat, and gave Usher's career a makeover. That is my point. I don't think I've seen anyone mention any of the artists you named as artists who put those respective cities on.

And you point out he had credits on TLC albums. I've already mentioned that. Breh, out of the three albums they released in the 90's, JD had one song on each album. None of those were hits. Meanwhile, you look at "Waterfalls", which was Organized Noize , it's one of, if not biggest song that TLC had.

Outkast wasn't a group that just had some little buzz. They were guests on Martin, one of the biggest shows in the Black community.

Breh, Kriss Kross never reached what Kast reached in 1994 because they were a kid group. It would be like saying Dre, Snoop, Cube, nor Pac did what Hammer did for Cali because Hammer had a diamond album that wasn't a double cd. Everybody knows that musically, they all had a greater impact than Hammer.

And another key point, ya'll keep talking about JD being behind these artists. OutKast was at the forefront. You didn't have to read credits, because they were front and center.

I don't get it, I even posted words from JD's own lips where he talks about albums that put Atlanta on and he specifically cites Kast's debut as the one that put eyes on Atlanta. His list included his own debut, TLC's first two albums, Usher's Confessions, Kriss Kross's debut, and Speakerboxxx/Love Below, a few Lil Jon albums, and Jeezy's Thug Motivation. Out of all those albums, Kast's was the only one he said made people pay attention to Atlanta.

 

[spliz]

you been going at this for pages and there's clearly way more posters who knew JD/So So Def was an ATL thing and feel he represented it, was key in building it up, or whatever. like at some point you might need to accept that maybe it's YOU who don't feel like JD repped it or that you don't associate him with putting ATL on. but you got posters from east to west all arguing that we did, so there's no regional bias there.

I don’t understand how it’s still an argument at this point. Lol

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

I don’t understand how it’s still an argument at this point. Lol

Because something something cameo, something ABC, something OutKast created the whole ass city of Atlanta