Urban charter schools are succeeding—so get out of their way

[Shogun]

So in the worst examples out there, between 0.6% and 5% of kids were getting expelled. And those were the worst charters.

And we're talking about places where FIFTY PERCENT of the kids in the public schools aren't graduating.

If you think that expelling 1-3% of the students makes that huge a difference, then maybe those knuckleheads should have gone to other schools.

I don't know about your claim that they can expel for not meeting academic standards. Cite for that? I assure you that our charter never, ever did that. The only kids who got "encouraged to transfer" were ones who just didn't want to be with the program in any way - and that was maybe 1-2 kids a year.

I'm definitely not a fan of eliminating public schools. I think the only real long-term solution is to keep experimenting with charter schools, and to over time incorporate the most positive aspects of the successful charters back into regular public schools. But as long as charters aren't there, public schools don't have any incentive nor momentum to change a thing. And if you don't think they're failing inner-city communities now, you blind.

First, it's not the worst of the worst.

Second, kids in charter schools have parents who were at least proactive enough to get their kids in the lottery. Parents who value education, more often than not, have kids who at least put forth effort in school.

I have nothing against charter schools, I just don't see them as a solution to anything, nor do I think charter schools are somehow superior to public schools. Put the same student population in either a charter or public school and you'd get the same results.

 

[Shogun]

again, all charter schools are different so i dont agree with your assertion, but lets say it was true, so what if its easier to get kids kicked out? why is that the central issue? kids get kicked out of public school also

and just like when you get kicked out of public school you have to find another school to go to, charter schools arent going to change that so i dont see why that is a central issue

Removing problematic kids doesn't just get one bad grade off the stats....it improves the school's learning environment for those that remain.

Read the article...it's not an insignificant number of kids that are getting the boot from these charter schools.
Public schools don't have that luxury.

 

[Bernie Madoff]

Teachers who actually care about the poor kids, will help the poor kids, who knew...

 

[GetInTheTruck]

It may sound fukked up, but it's time to give up on these kids who obviously have neither the ability or the desire to learn and be productive members of society. A few may make it but the vast majority will never amount to shyt and the public school system only encourages that cycle. It's sad that charter schools are a necessity but if they are producing kids of quality that's all that matters. There's no reason why kids who actually want to learn and acheive should be surrounded by little pieces of shyt who will only hinder their intellectual development. Its not fair to them and it definitely isn't fair to their parents.

 

[theworldismine13]

Removing problematic kids doesn't just get one bad grade off the stats....it improves the school's learning environment for those that remain.

yeah it improves the environment for those that remain, thats the point

Read the article...it's not an insignificant number of kids that are getting the boot from these charter schools.
Public schools don't have that luxury.

i did read the article, and the numbers are insignificant, 3% is nothing,

if you have a school with 1000 kids, 3% means 30 kids get kicked out and 970 students have a better environment to learn, seems like a no brainer to me

that article is just another pathetic attempt to stop school reform and to defend a pathetic decrepit system
any black person that defends the current public school system is delusional or retarded

 

[Shogun]

yeah it improves the environment for those that remain, thats the point


i did read the article, and the numbers are insignificant, 3% is nothing,

if you have a school with 1000 kids, 3% means 30 kids get kicked out and 970 students have a better environment to learn, seems like a no brainer to me

that article is just another pathetic attempt to stop school reform and to defend a pathetic decrepit system
any black person that defends the current public school system is delusional or retarded

It has nothing to with the educational system. It has everything to do with America being a country that doesn't value education.
Placing blame on the system is just shifting blame.

Without fail...parents who care about their kids education = kids who put forth effort in school.

Charter schools work partially because they have the freedom to get rid of the problems, and partially because they all have parents who were proactive enough to get them into a charter school....in other words...they care about their kid's education.

But, yes, anyone who disagrees with you is a retard.
Higher Learning

 

[theworldismine13]

It had nothing to with the educational system. It has everything to do with America being a country that doesn't value education.
Placing blame on the system is just shifting blame.

Without fail...parents who care about their kids education = kids who put forth effort in school.

one of the aspects that is important about charters and vouchers is that it puts more responsibility on the parent to chose schools, that is why im for eliminating the public school system altogether and giving the parent complete choice as to where they send their kids to school

i totally agree that culture is an issue, ive said that biggest threat to black people is not racism, its an anti academic culture that permeates black communities

so i would definetly agree with addressing culture, but i see the elimination of public schools and complete school choice is step toward creating a new culture

im not shifting blame as you are describing, im just aware that the public school system itself is part of the culture, so if you want to change the culture you have to change the system

Charter schools work partially because they have the freedom to get rid of the problems, and partially because they all have parents who were proactive enough to get them into a charter school....in other words...they care about their kid's education.

well the problem is you have no evidence to back your assertion

the notion that charter schools do better because they kick out 2.5% more of their students is

and the fact that you are are willing to sacrifice the education of 97% of the students just for 2.5% is idiotic

i love liberals as much as the next guy but sometimes liberalism gets out of hand, i hate to break to you, but as a community, if we have to kickout 3 percent of our students so that 97% can get an education then that is what we will have to do

But, yes, anyone who disagrees with you is a retard.
Higher Learning

yeah pretty much

 

[Shogun]

one of the aspects that is important about charters and vouchers is that it puts more responsibility on the parent to chose schools, that is why im for eliminating the public school system altogether and giving the parent complete choice as to where they send their kids to school

i totally agree that culture is an issue, ive said that biggest threat to black people is not racism, its an anti academic culture that permeates black communities

so i would definetly agree with addressing culture, but i see the elimination of public schools and complete school choice is step toward creating a new culture

im not shifting blame as you are describing, im just aware that the public school system itself is part of the culture, so if you want to change the culture you have to change the system



well the problem is you have no evidence to back your assertion

the notion that charter schools do better because they kick out 2.5% more of their students is

and the fact that you are are willing to sacrifice the education of 97% of the students just for 2.5% is idiotic



yeah pretty much

Somewhere along the line you got it in your head that I think charter schools are bad. I don't.
I just don't think they're the solution to America's problems with education.

As for your remark about me having no evidence...I've been a teacher for 10 years, and am on the back end of a doctoral program in education. There's plenty of evidence. All of which you will discredit because it doesn't align with your narrative.

 

[theworldismine13]

Somewhere along the line you got it in your head that I think charter schools are bad. I don't.
I just don't think they're the solution to America's problems with education.

As for your remark about me having no evidence...I've been a teacher for 10 years, and am on the back end of a doctoral program in education. There's plenty of evidence. All of which you will discredit because it doesn't align with your narrative.

yeah so you yourself are part of a decrepit system that has killed generations of black minds, congratulations

i agree that charter schools arent the solution, we need vouchers also

but anyways feel free to share with us with the documented evidence that support your claims

 

[Shogun]

yeah so you yourself are part of a decrepit system that has killed generations of black minds, congratulations

i agree that charter schools arent the solution, we need vouchers also

but anyways feel free to share with us with the documented evidence that support your claims

What are you doing to fix the problem?

Other than bytching about it on the coli, of course.

 

[EndDomination]

why would this nation put money into a system that we know doesnt work

people like you are more worried about saving a decrepit bureaucracy than the minds of black children

The system is broken due to a number of reasons, many of which funding would solve:
An unequal distribution of funding toward wealthier neighborhoods, a lack of qualification for teachers, a lack of oversight of teachers, a lack of teachers in general, a curriculum that is not pushed equally toward each child, the pulling out of smarter children and stuffing them into private and charter schools, and lack of parental pre-school training.
I'm pretty sure giving full funding to all public schools, increasing the training of all teachers as well as evaluations, giving more oversight, as well as starting public education in preschool, would do a tremendous good for Black and other minority students.
Clearly you missed the entire point of what I said, urban charter schools aren't working, they cherrypick and shave-off students to make themselves look more successful, they still leave the vast, vast majority of Black students in the dust.

 

[theworldismine13]

The system is broken due to a number of reasons, many of which funding would solve:
An unequal distribution of funding toward wealthier neighborhoods, a lack of qualification for teachers, a lack of oversight of teachers, a lack of teachers in general, a curriculum that is not pushed equally toward each child, the pulling out of smarter children and stuffing them into private and charter schools, and lack of parental pre-school training.
I'm pretty sure giving full funding to all public schools, increasing the training of all teachers as well as evaluations, giving more oversight, as well as starting public education in preschool, would do a tremendous good for Black and other minority students.
Clearly you missed the entire point of what I said, urban charter schools aren't working, they cherrypick and shave-off students to make themselves look more successful, they still leave the vast, vast majority of Black students in the dust.

no i dont agree that funding is the issue, i didnt miss the point of what you said, i disagree with it, im opposed to increasing funding for a system that doesnt work

thats why i posted this video

if you increase funding without addressing the bureaucracy, you are just wasting money



the system itself has to be uprooted and we have to start from scratch, that is the best way to do it

The recent history of Camden, New Jersey, which is the poorest small city in America, provides a case study of the tragic ineffectiveness of government programs at ameliorating poverty. State and federal taxpayers have spent hundreds of millions of dollars on various redevelopment programs in Camden over the years, but the money never ended up where it was supposed to and the promised revival of this fallen manufacturing town never happened.

By far, the largest initiative to combat poverty with government largess has been directed at Camden's public schools. New Jersey spends about 60% more on education per pupil than the national average according to 2012 census figures, or about $19,000 in 2013. In Camden, per pupil spending was more than $25,000 in 2013, making it one of the highest spending districts in the nation.

But all that extra money hasn’t changed the fact that Camden’s public schools are among in the worst in the nation, notorious for their abysmal test scores, the frequent occurrence of in-school violence, dilapidated buildings, and an on-time graduation rate of just 61 percent.

This is the story of how Camden became one of the nation’s best funded and worst performing school districts, which is the first in a three-part video series on Camden public school system.

 

[theworldismine13]

What are you doing to fix the problem?

Other than bytching about it on the coli, of course.

im supporting charter schools and vouchers as a voter

 

[Shogun]

im supporting charter schools and vouchers as a voter

Rock the vote, breh

 

[theworldismine13]

Rock the vote, breh

i will and i do

i vote for all pro charter intiatives and i dont support politicians that dont support charters