Tumblin 'erb: Why is J Cole So mediocre...PRECISELY lays out Cole's flaws

[Professor Polo]

Stop bunchin me up with everyone else who critiques Cole..

Its not the sales

This is a hip hop board

If i feel someone is overrating a rapper and giving him titles I feel are unwarranted im gonna make my voice be heard and say that he's trash and doesnt deserve the praise he gets

Its as simple as that

you and Napolean stay trying to play Cole...so yeah, you're bunched up with everyone else... we get it, you dont like him... you aint convincing anyone otherwise... you're just an annoying fagggot at this poiny

 

[WEKetchum]

This is just not true. I'm 29, and my friends are around my age, and we all fukk with cole. I don't like cole just because I like what he stands for. I also think he is a good rapper. The Sideline Story was an okay album, but the Warm Up, Friday Night Lights, Truely Yours, and Born Sinner put together very well.
Its funny how non cole fans are trying to tell us cole fans way we like him. Nonbody ever answer his question when it asked. If yall don't like cole why do you even listen to him or care. The same nikkas are in every theard hating.

Not talking about you or your friends specifically. But the person I was responding to asked, "Why do so many people like him then." Just answering the question on where I think some (or much) of his fan base comes from. I think he gets as much love for what he's not, as for what he is, if that makes sense. Also, I think a lot of people who do like him for those reasons may not actually realize it.

But keep in mind, even a lot of his detractors - including the person who wrote the article in this thread - think he's a good rapper. I answered your question, "Why do you listen to him or care," earlier in the thread:

People speak on him because it's frustrating - we see Cole's skill, we see his potential, but we don't think he does a good job of living up to it musically. I liked his mixtape work, and Born Sinner isn't a bad album. I was excited for him to come out because I value his perspective - I think that too much of hip-hop depends on the poverty/rags to riches storyline, and that Cole would offer an alternative narrative that would enrich the genre. I just feel that the music itself doesn't deliver, for the reasons that the article stated.

 

[SuburbanPimp]

The J. Cole hate has hit a fever pitch....

He has finally made it

The sad part is that alot people aren't even hating on J. Cole himself cause they say he is boring, so if he is boring you would think they would just not listen, right?

But these new crop of Cole haters really hate the fact that other cats think that he is dope and they really want you to feel like he is a bad rapper...

I don't think Cole is the greatest rapper of his generation and I don't love everything he has put out, but I appreciate his work and I've seen his growth and I expect him to keep getting better.

that boy Napolean, Hate this strong isn't ordinary and he keeps J. Cole's name hot on this forum...

 

[blackslash]

you and Napolean stay trying to play Cole...so yeah, you're bunched up with everyone else... we get it, you dont like him... you aint convincing anyone otherwise... you're just an annoying fagggot at this poiny

Nah..I just counteract hsi praise with criticism is all

Same like if u saw a Drake thread where he was getin praise you'd have something to say

Hypocrite ass nikka

 

[blackslash]

The J. Cole hate has hit a fever pitch....

He has finally made it

The sad part is that alot people aren't even hating on J. Cole himself cause they say he is boring, so if he is boring you would think they would just not listen, right?

But these new crop of Cole haters really hate the fact that other cats think that he is dope and they really want you to feel like he is a bad rapper...

I don't think Cole is the greatest rapper of his generation and I don't love everything he has put out, but I appreciate his work and I've seen his growth and I expect him to keep getting better.

that boy Napolean, Hate this strong isn't ordinary and he keeps J. Cole's name hot on this forum...

I dnt listen to J Cole..gave him a few chances but i dnt listen to him..just because we critique his work doesnt make us "haters"

Funny..u sound alot like the Drake stans you're not too fond of

 

[WEKetchum]

I actually would have said this about Kendrick Lamar. Although I do respect his talent I really couldn't get into his album because it was all just centered around him and his small environment.

Cole on the other hand does a better job at taking his stories out of his own personal world and bring them to a broader worldview.

I'ts funny the article says he can't tap into the nas "project windows vision" but I thought this verse was the best nas "project windows vision-esq" verse Iv'e heard in the long time.

Yeah, unbelievable seen evil that not even Knievel know
At age 3 I knew this world was three below
Listen, even though my ego low achieved the unachievable
Imagine if my confidence was halfway decent, yo
This just in, fukked more bytches than Bieber though
Still I keep it low, got my nikkas on the need to know
Basis, my manager back in the day was racist
I was a young boy, passing skate and tucking laces
Old perverted white man who told me: "Jermaine, It's all pink on the inside
fukk what color their face is." wise words from an indecent man
Made me reflect on the times when we was three-fifths of them
In chains and powerless, brave souls reduce to cowardice
Slaving in the baking sun for hours
Just to see the master creep into the shack where your lady at
Nine months later got a baby that not quite what you excepted
But you refuse to neglect it cause you know your wifey love you
Does you refuse to accept it?
That's that type shyt that tell why my granny light skin
Rich white man rule the nation still, only difference is we all slaves now
The chains concealed in our thoughts
If I follow my heart to save myself
Could I run away from 50 mill like Dave Chappelle?

I can't understand how anyone can call a verse like this elementary or mediocre. Without knowing the artist, this reads like a classic nas verse.

I understand cole has a long way to go, but if he is mediocre than anyone else in the game under 30 is pure trash.

Kendrick's music has characters aside from himself who are fully developed. Listen to songs like "Sing About Me" from GKMC, or "Keisha's Song" from Section.80. He shows a balance between capturing the hopelessness of a gangbanger or prostitute while still capturing the story that showed how they got there, and why they'll never escape it. Kendrick shows that ability regularly.

Aside from a couple instances, J. Cole's characters are only used in the context of how they are in his life. That's a solid verse from him, but it's not the norm, IMO. Usually, as the writer said, Cole's characters are set pieces. They're one-dimensional people, because the only dimension necessary is the one for him to tell his own story.

 

[Professor Polo]

Nah..I just counteract hsi praise with criticism is all

Same like if u saw a Drake thread where he was getin praise you'd have something to say

Hypocrite ass nikka

hardly... how many drake threads are made? I may make a comment here and there....you're in EVERY COle thread


you lose.... good try tho

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Kendrick's music has characters aside from himself who are fully developed. Listen to songs like "Sing About Me" from GKMC, or "Keisha's Song" from Section.80. He shows a balance between capturing the hopelessness of a gangbanger or prostitute while still capturing the story that showed how they got there, and why they'll never escape it. Kendrick shows that ability regularly.

I get what your saying here, but to me it's all just about his own local experiences. Listening to his cd I didn't care about Keisha or any of the other random names he brought up. There are no universally relatable lines in his songs, he doesn't really drop "knowledge" as all of the greats do

Aside from a couple instances, J. Cole's characters are only used in the context of how they are in his life. That's a solid verse from him, but it's not the norm, IMO. Usually, as the writer said, Cole's characters are set pieces. They're one-dimensional people, because the only dimension necessary is the one for him to tell his own story.

There are plenty of instances on born sinner and Coles other releases that he takes his stories past just his local experiences/feelings.

I wouldn't say he's a good story teller as far as character development and imagery are concerned. But most of the music he makes is universally relatable. This goes for walle as well. You can listen to their music and become inspired. You can learn something about the world or even yourself through their music. And that's a gift that not very many artists have.

 

[A.R.$]

Not talking about you or your friends specifically. But the person I was responding to asked, "Why do so many people like him then." Just answering the question on where I think some (or much) of his fan base comes from. I think he gets as much love for what he's not, as for what he is, if that makes sense. Also, I think a lot of people who do like him for those reasons may not actually realize it.

But keep in mind, even a lot of his detractors - including the person who wrote the article in this thread - think he's a good rapper. I answered your question, "Why do you listen to him or care," earlier in the thread:

People speak on him because it's frustrating - we see Cole's skill, we see his potential, but we don't think he does a good job of living up to it musically. I liked his mixtape work, and Born Sinner isn't a bad album. I was excited for him to come out because I value his perspective - I think that too much of hip-hop depends on the poverty/rags to riches storyline, and that Cole would offer an alternative narrative that would enrich the genre. I just feel that the music itself doesn't deliver, for the reasons that the article stated.

Okay...I don't agree with some of the stuff you said, but I respect your opinion. I was a little disappointed with the sideline story, although I thought it was an above average album. Overall I think people are being a little unfair to cole. The article said that cole olny see things through a I point of view. If you listen to truely yours, friday night lights, you would see he has songs that tell a story through many different perspectives. Even on the sideline story he had songs like lost ones, and even daddy's little girl. On the dreakdown he telling a chick to stay down with her man that doing a bid. Cole never did a bid. I feel a lot of people love to hate on him (not specifically talking about you)

 

[WEKetchum]

I get what your saying here, but to me it's all just about his own local experiences. Listening to his cd I didn't care about Keisha or any of the other random names he brought up. There are no universally relatable lines in his songs, he doesn't really drop "knowledge" as all of the greats do


There are plenty of instances on born sinner and Coles other releases that he takes his stories past just his local experiences/feelings.

I wouldn't say he's a good story teller as far as character development and imagery are concerned. But most of the music he makes is universally relatable. This goes for walle as well. You can listen to their music and become inspired. You can learn something about the world or even yourself through their music. And that's a gift that not very many artists have.

lol that's the thing, though. These people aren't random names; they're fully developed characters who have stories going on. A joint like "Keisha's Song" isn't much different from a song like Nas' "What Goes Around" where he's talking about the dude who's giving a bunch of women AIDS. S80 tells the story of the generation of people born in the 80s, and GKMC tells the stories of people in his neighborhood. Both he and Nas have that ability to tell others' stories just as candidly as they do their own.

Kendrick has plenty of stuff that's universally relatable IMO, but he's also not a line-for-line artist.

I do think that Cole is relatable, and I respect him as an emcee. I just think he isn't great; he takes them past his own feelings, but not *too* far. Like I said, everything is done in context with his own personal story for the most part. I thought Lost Ones was a great song, but it didn't seem to go too far past her context within his own story. Who are these people once Cole leaves the room? I get a line about her being raised by a single mom herself, but that's it.

That don't have the multiple dimensions of songs like Lupe's "He Say She Say," Kendrick's "Sing About Me," Danny Brown's "Party All the Time," etc.

I don't think Cole's garbage, I just think he's lacking that spark. Especially with these BS comparisons to Nas. Dude isn't similar to Nas at all

 

[WEKetchum]

Okay...I don't agree with some of the stuff you said, but I respect your opinion. I was a little disappointed with the sideline story, although I thought it was an above average album. Overall I think people are being a little unfair to cole. The article said that cole olny see things through a I point of view. If you listen to truely yours, friday night lights, you would see he has songs that tell a story through many different perspectives. Even on the sideline story he had songs like lost ones, and even daddy's little girl. On the dreakdown he telling a chick to stay down with her man that doing a bid. Cole never did a bid. I feel a lot of people love to hate on him (not specifically talking about you)

I think a big part of the "hate"/criticism is all these inaccurate comparisons to Nas, his huge disparity of quality between retail and mixtapes (which isn't all his fault, but still), and what I and many others see as a lack of entertainment value. He's talented, but he just lacks the "it" factor. And, all of the things that the original article said. Most people I know who don't rock with Cole now, rocked with him HEAVY at some point before this.

 

[blvckbieber]

Kendrick's music has characters aside from himself who are fully developed. Listen to songs like "Sing About Me" from GKMC, or "Keisha's Song" from Section.80. He shows a balance between capturing the hopelessness of a gangbanger or prostitute while still capturing the story that showed how they got there, and why they'll never escape it. Kendrick shows that ability regularly.

Aside from a couple instances, J. Cole's characters are only used in the context of how they are in his life. That's a solid verse from him, but it's not the norm, IMO. Usually, as the writer said, Cole's characters are set pieces. They're one-dimensional people, because the only dimension necessary is the one for him to tell his own story.

And instead of making him a different type of writer, that makes him a worse one by default?

 

[DrunkerThanAMotherfucker]

And instead of making him a different type of writer, that makes him a worse one by default?

Yes, because rappers who are able to rap from a perspective outside of themselves are more imaginative and offer the listener more.

Hip-hop is inherently narcissistic and thrives on competition between MCs, but the lyricists who are more than autobiographers transcend the genre imho.

Writing from the position of someone else is tougher than penning a verse filled with "look at me, I made it fukk the rest".

 

[The_Sheff]

So now people require songs that the common man can relate to? Yall nikkas can relate to waking up in Bugatti's, riding around in G4's, making it rain with 10s of thousands of dollars, killing entire families, etc....?

Whatever, i like Cole's music. Gives me something different than all the junk on the radio now. nikkas in here giving Chief Keef a pass because he raps loud. How many times does Ross have rap the exact same verse before cats start typing essays on him?

 

[MeachTheMonster]

lol that's the thing, though. These people aren't random names; they're fully developed characters who have stories going on. A joint like "Keisha's Song" isn't much different from a song like Nas' "What Goes Around" where he's talking about the dude who's giving a bunch of women AIDS. S80 tells the story of the generation of people born in the 80s, and GKMC tells the stories of people in his neighborhood. Both he and Nas have that ability to tell others' stories just as candidly as they do their own.

Not even close. What goes around is a song that could be about anyone. Kieshas song was about Keisha, Kendrick never turned that corner in order to related her to the kieshas in my life. It was a story about a girl he knows and that's where it begins and ends.

Kendrick has plenty of stuff that's universally relatable IMO, but he's also not a line-for-line artist.

Sing for me I'm dying of thirst, is the only Kendrick song I've ever been able to feel on a personal level.

I do think that Cole is relatable, and I respect him as an emcee. I just think he isn't great; he takes them past his own feelings, but not *too* far. Like I said, everything is done in context with his own personal story for the most part. I thought Lost Ones was a great song, but it didn't seem to go too far past her context within his own story. Who are these people once Cole leaves the room? I get a line about her being raised by a single mom herself, but that's it.

That don't have the multiple dimensions of songs like Lupe's "He Say She Say," Kendrick's "Sing About Me," Danny Brown's "Party All the Time," etc.

I don't think Cole's garbage, I just think he's lacking that spark. Especially with these BS comparisons to Nas. Dude isn't similar to Nas at all

Killers
Rich nikkas
World is empty
Crooked smile
Runaway
Daddy's little girl

And that's just to name a few off the top of my head.

He said Cole, “A lil' birdy told me on the low you got an Illmatic” / Nobody touching Nas nikka it’s more like Villematic.