Titus O'Neil deletes photo of Roman Reigns and Braun Strowman breaking kayfabe

Buggsy Mogues

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No, I'm coming at it from the perspective that it's just a fukking TV show and to expect these dudes to stay in character in their off time so you can suspend your disbelief over grown men fake fighting in tights is absurd and needy as hell.

No, you aren't. YOu're a die-hard. You'll watch no matter what. They don't give a fukk about you because they already got you. They can do just about anything and you'll still watch, so your view on this is extremely skewed.

Damn near EVERYTHING about wrestling is absurd when you look at it in the grand scheme of entertainment/life. Exactly, it's fake fighting with people in tights, so why would you try to apply the same rules to it that you would apply to an actual scripted television series? It's not, it never has been. It's always tried to blur the line between real/fake, athletic competition/entertainment show. If it's as simple and pedestrian as you make it sound, then again, why do you even bother watching?
 

R=G

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Before their WM19 match they had a bit at Axxess where Rock went up to Austin's autograph signing and they both joked around. WWE even filmed it and put it on the WMDVD as an extra.

Used to be on YouTube but I can't find it for anything anymore.

Nah...Rock and Austin characters became friends after they did t hat song promo before Survivor Series 2001. 2003 was just a nice bow to end it..they basically became tag team partners for the WM 18 build against the Nwo.
 

stro

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No, you aren't. YOu're a die-hard. You'll watch no matter what. They don't give a fukk about you because they already got you. They can do just about anything and you'll still watch, so your view on this is extremely skewed.

Damn near EVERYTHING about wrestling is absurd when you look at it in the grand scheme of entertainment/life. Exactly, it's fake fighting with people in tights, so why would you try to apply the same rules to it that you would apply to an actual scripted television series? It's not, it never has been. It's always tried to blur the line between real/fake, athletic competition/entertainment show. If it's as simple and pedestrian as you make it sound, then again, why do you even bother watching?

I watch one Raw and SD a month, if that, and I don't have a Nielsen box. I don't watch NXT. I don't even always watch the PPVs. I've been trial spamming WWE Network for 2 years and spend absolutely zero money on WWE or any other wrestling company. Earlier this year I went 2 full months without watching a minute of wrestling. Explain to me how they already have me.

I watch because I'm an adult who can watch something on my screen and suspend my disbelief during a match just like I can during a movie or other TV show, and I enjoy watching wrestling most of the time. It's literally no deeper than that. I don't need external help to suspend disbelief for my entertainment. Trying to make wrestling something deeper than it is to justify watching because you're too embarrassed to admit to enjoying a dumb show is sad shyt, breh.
 

NOSaintsFan02

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Nah...Rock and Austin characters became friends after they did t hat song promo before Survivor Series 2001. 2003 was just a nice bow to end it..they basically became tag team partners for the WM 18 build against the Nwo.
But if we're in "kayfabe" mode, Austin had some real beef with Rock prior to 19. So in that same sense, then seeing him and Rock buddy up with each other a day before Austin been salivating to get his hands on him breaks that kayfabe tradition.

Not that I cared. I don't. Days of kayfabe are over.
 

GOATpernick

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Picture Bret and Austin posing in pics together before Mania 13 in the Windy City :scust:

Well... Just imagine if you saw a picture on twitter of Austin/Rock chilling at a restaurant right before their Wrestlemania 17 match lol

2 weeks before WrestleMania 2000 on Saturday Night Live the entire main event and Vince* were patting each others backs all night :mjlol:

*keep in mind this would be about 3 months after Haitch tried to murder Vince and officially stole his daughter at Armageddon :dead:
 

R=G

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But if we're in "kayfabe" mode, Austin had some real beef with Rock prior to 19. So in that same sense, then seeing him and Rock buddy up with each other a day before Austin been salivating to get his hands on him breaks that kayfabe tradition.

Not that I cared. I don't. Days of kayfabe are over.


Not really....it was access..there had never been that kind of recorded footage at Access before. They had camera following them around for that WM movie that came out for WM XX that chronicled at fans saw Rock as a sell out and how Austin returned to big fanfare and how Austin got sick the night before.
 

Buggsy Mogues

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I watch one Raw and SD a month, if that, and I don't have a Nielsen box. I don't watch NXT. I don't even always watch the PPVs. I've been trial spamming WWE Network for 2 years and spend absolutely zero money on WWE or any other wrestling company. Earlier this year I went 2 full months without watching a minute of wrestling. Explain to me how they already have me.

I watch because I'm an adult who can watch something on my screen and suspend my disbelief during a match just like I can during a movie or other TV show, and I enjoy watching wrestling most of the time. It's literally no deeper than that. I don't need external help to suspend disbelief for my entertainment. Trying to make wrestling something deeper than it is to justify watching because you're too embarrassed to admit to enjoying a dumb show is sad shyt, breh.


:mjlol: OK Bro, damn near every post you have on the Coli is in TSC and you always up in the PPV/Show threads, got your own wrestling site, but right you not a diehard.

That's cool that you can do that, most people can't or don't want to. That's a big reason why so few people watch today. They know deep down its fake, but they don't want to be constantly reminded of it. You can point to any other reason you want, but the numbers correlate have continued to slip as kayfabe has continued to waste away. The numbers don't lie.
 

stro

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:mjlol: OK Bro, damn near every post you have on the Coli is in TSC and you always up in the PPV/Show threads, got your own wrestling site, but right you not a diehard.

That's cool that you can do that, most people can't or don't want to. That's a big reason why so few people watch today. They know deep down its fake, but they don't want to be constantly reminded of it. You can point to any other reason you want, but the numbers correlate have continued to slip as kayfabe has continued to waste away. The numbers don't lie.

I didn't say I wasn't a hardcore, but the lack of kayfabe outside of wrestling has absolutely nothing to do with my enjoyment of wrestling, nor did it as a kid when I went to a WCW show and Hall/Nash were signing autographs next to Sting/Luger and not trying to kill each other. I didn't then go see the show 2 hours later and not be able to enjoy it because all I could think about is why these guys weren't fighting when signing autographs. The "slip of kayfabe" happened 30 fukking years ago when Vince openly started calling his product sports entertainment officially to get out of having to pay extra fees to run events. It was 20 years ago this year that Vince literally started a show saying their writing had been insulting and how outdated the concept of good guys vs bad guys is. This was followed by their biggest boom period ever.

Your theory is demonstrably false.
 

Buggsy Mogues

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I didn't say I wasn't a hardcore, but the lack of kayfabe outside of wrestling has absolutely nothing to do with my enjoyment of wrestling, nor did it as a kid when I went to a WCW show and Hall/Nash were signing autographs next to Sting/Luger and not trying to kill each other. I didn't then go see the show 2 hours later and not be able to enjoy it because all I could think about is why these guys weren't fighting when signing autographs. The "slip of kayfabe" happened 30 fukking years ago when Vince openly started calling his product sports entertainment officially to get out of having to pay extra fees to run events. It was 20 years ago this year that Vince literally started a show saying their writing had been insulting and how outdated the concept of good guys vs bad guys is. This was followed by their biggest boom period ever.

Your theory is demonstrably false.


You keep applying YOUR OWN feelings to this. Your opinion on this has no value, because you're a die hard wrestling fan. You just acknowledged this. You watch most of the shows, your posting history shows this. You're going to be a wrestling fan no matter what, so trying to apply your feelings on this to the vast majority of wrestling fans is ridiculous.

The more open to the masses wrestling has gotten, the more reality shows, social media, etc. The more WWE has subscribed to this "it's just a show and we're here to entertain you" theory, THE AUDIENCE HAS LEFT.

Anything else is just chit chat. These are facts. And there is a direct correlation. These wrestlers aren't actors on a TV show. People want to see them as larger than life characters and BELIEVE what they're seeing is real. When you lose that, you lose a majority of your audience.
 

stro

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You keep applying YOUR OWN feelings to this. Your opinion on this has no value, because you're a die hard wrestling fan. You just acknowledged this. You watch most of the shows, your posting history shows this. You're going to be a wrestling fan no matter what, so trying to apply your feelings on this to the vast majority of wrestling fans is ridiculous.

The more open to the masses wrestling has gotten, the more reality shows, social media, etc. The more WWE has subscribed to this "it's just a show and we're here to entertain you" theory, THE AUDIENCE HAS LEFT.

Anything else is just chit chat. These are facts. And there is a direct correlation. These wrestlers aren't actors on a TV show. People want to see them as larger than life characters and BELIEVE what they're seeing is real. When you lose that, you lose a majority of your audience.

You're literally saying I'm applying my own feelings to this when YOUR feelings have been directly proven to not reflect the will of the wrestling audience. Repeatedly. The two biggest periods in America were when they literally came out and said it's fake. The indies are bigger than they've ever been and there isn't even a shred of semblance of kayfabe. This isn't about feelings at all. I didn't say my feelings reflected how anyone else felt. You did. And you are saying your feelings reflect how everyone else thinks, when that's been documented to be false. Normal adults are able to watch television programming and suspend their disbelief without needing external validation and help. Even little children do this.

Correlation does not imply causation

In fact, in the world of pro wrestling, the two biggest periods have been when kayfabe was acknowledged and broken to the audience.
 

OVER

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I heard Kayfabe died when reporters started following wrestling and they'd run the same matches with the same results. I also heard that it has never really existed and the only people who believed it were adult spectators and children but marks of the time were already hip to it. The death of kayfabe has even been credited for gimmicks and giving guys who have the "look" the strap. I've always viewed pro wrestling like magic shows, like how they call them illusions and tricks. Everyone going to a magic show knows it's not real there is a part of us that wants to know how it works, but we mostly want to find out our selves and not be given a in step explanation to how it's done.

If kayfabe was ever alive it's super dead now and the Titus pic is small potatoes. I mean I don't get how they get mad at this and Lana/Rusev engagement when they have heels promoting The Special Olympics, Xaviar Woods going by his real name Austin Creed playing Madden with heels and faces, you even have children IWC youtubers talking about who WWE should push so now fans are coming in knowing it's not real. I knew it wasn't real when I was 8 but I had a lot of the nonsense and spectacle of the Attitude era to distract me until I appreciated match quality. I don't even know what this generation of fans have to stick around for.
 

JerseyBoy23

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I heard Kayfabe died when reporters started following wrestling and they'd run the same matches with the same results. I also heard that it has never really existed and the only people who believed it were adult spectators and children but marks of the time were already hip to it. The death of kayfabe has even been credited for gimmicks and giving guys who have the "look" the strap. I've always viewed pro wrestling like magic shows, like how they call them illusions and tricks. Everyone going to a magic show knows it's not real there is a part of us that wants to know how it works, but we mostly want to find out our selves and not be given a in step explanation to how it's done.

If kayfabe was ever alive it's super dead now and the Titus pic is small potatoes. I mean I don't get how they get mad at this and Lana/Rusev engagement when they have heels promoting The Special Olympics, Xaviar Woods going by his real name Austin Creed playing Madden with heels and faces, you even have children IWC youtubers talking about who WWE should push so now fans are coming in knowing it's not real. I knew it wasn't real when I was 8 but I had a lot of the nonsense and spectacle of the Attitude era to distract me until I appreciated match quality. I don't even know what this generation of fans have to stick around for.

Vince put the death knell to it with this though.

Now It Can Be Told: Those Pro Wrestlers Are Just Having Fun

The promoters of professional wrestling have disclosed that their terrifying towers in spandex tights, massive creatures like Bam Bam Bigelow, Hulk Hogan and Andre the Giant, are really no more dangerous to one another than Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy.

But please don't repeat this. Millions of grown men and women just don't want to know.

In an attempt to free their exhibitions from regulations that apply to boxing and other sports that cause serious injury, spokesmen for the World Wrestling Federation testified recently before the New Jersey Senate that professional wrestling is just ''entertainment'' and that participants are trained to avoid serious injuries.
 

Buggsy Mogues

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You're literally saying I'm applying my own feelings to this when YOUR feelings have been directly proven to not reflect the will of the wrestling audience. Repeatedly. The two biggest periods in America were when they literally came out and said it's fake. The indies are bigger than they've ever been and there isn't even a shred of semblance of kayfabe. This isn't about feelings at all. I didn't say my feelings reflected how anyone else felt. You did. And you are saying your feelings reflect how everyone else thinks, when that's been documented to be false. Normal adults are able to watch television programming and suspend their disbelief without needing external validation and help. Even little children do this.

Correlation does not imply causation

In fact, in the world of pro wrestling, the two biggest periods have been when kayfabe was acknowledged and broken to the audience.

My feelings are backed by hard evidence. The more exposed wrestling has become to the mainstream, the LESS POPULAR it has become. These are FACTS.

The "it's all scripted" speech with Vince ya'll love to cling to wasn't really about shyt. Despite that speech, they still tried to heavily keep kayfabe alive and well and there was still large-scale confusion/denial about to what extent wrestling was real or fake and how real or fake the characters were that you saw on TV. You didn't see people appearing out of character on other forms of entertainment. shyt, a year or two after Vince gave that speech, that "Real secrets of pro wrestling exposed!" show came out on NBC that WWF was heavily trying to get killed. So while they acknowledged kayfabe, they certainly weren't trying to kill it at that point.

For the 100th time, wrestling isn't regular "television programming" so you're wasting your time trying to simplify it down to that. People historically have invested in and digested wrestling differently than other forms of scripted entertainment. You invest in characters because you believe they are to some extent, real. A large majority of the audience that's left now are just diehards who watch because they love wrestling, they would watch no matter who you threw out there. Kayfabe doesn't affect them. They want to be in on these people's lives and follow them through social media.

Just because WWE doesn't care about kayfabe anymore doesn't mean the wrestlers shouldn't. People just want to believe in and invest in a character, to either cheer for or root against. That's why dudes like McGregor make so much money. Everyone logically knows he's just putting on a show to sell a fight, but people really get invested in the character. But you won't see him before a fight posing with Nate Diaz for a smiley picture, a half hour after they just got done throwing shyt at each other at a press conference.
 
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