Time To End The Narrative That Jay-Z Was Never The Top Rapper In The Game

[Ziggiy]

I've been posting in this thread that I think it's very close, and virtually a tie. But there's a lot of evidence one could use to argue DMX.

To this day he still might be the only person to with 2 hip-hop albums to drop in the same calendar year to debut at the #1 Billboard spot.

Get At Me Dog was a big street banger. Ruff Ryder's Anthem, Stop Being Greedy, How's It Goin' Down, and Slipping were all huge singles. He was on the Money Cash Hoes remix which was big.

Jay definitely had massive singles with Money Ain't a Thing, Can I Get A, Hard Knock Life, and Jigga What.

Jay and X were both huge in '98. I don't think there's really a concrete answer and it depends also on where you lived. I was in the south and I'd say X was bigger down here by a small margin. X at the time was like nothing anyone had heard. He was being compared to Tupac in terms of his charisma and overall presence. Pause but he was for sure way more of a sex symbol than Jay was.

X was also a new star, and Jay Volume 2 did help make him a superstar, but he was already established. DMX was so fresh and new that he had people's attention. And people in the south do have a lot of outdoor parties, and like to get fired up, hype, and all that. X's music was perfect for that.

Future did it a few years ago

 

[TheDarceKnight]

Can’t give him 01-02. You can’t be the “Top” rapper if another top rapper comes and knocks your head off.


I actually give him 03, even as I stated before I think Outkast has an argument. People forget how hyped the Black Album was

shyt I always get 50’s rise year messed up. For some reason I ALWAYS think it was 04 but it was 03

To touch on what both of these posts.

I would've liked to have seen how much bigger DMX would've been in the internet era. I think a huge part of 50-fever all over the world was partially due to the rise of the internet. It definitely helped spread the momentum. But I mean history is what it is, and 50's 2003 was bigger than DMX's 1998.

As far as The Black Album, it was a huge event. But I still lean towards giving the year to 50. That was my senior year in high school so I remember it vividly. GRODT dropped in February, and The Black Album didn't drop until Black Friday in November. I don't even think recording started until the fall, because I remember 9th Wonder getting the call in September, and only a handful of joints had been made when he was up there.

So 50 had the advantage in 2003 of having the entire year for people to rock to that album. Jay pretty much only got the last month, and I can't help but tie in the G-Unit album as a 50 album as well.

Edit: Actually I might amend it to say that Jay had the bigger year in 2003 for hip-hop fans (because the retirement really was a big deal), and 50 had the bigger year for casual music listeners.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

Future did it a few years ago

Now that you mention it I do seem to remember hearing someone did it a few years ago.

X held onto it for a long time though (20 years give or take?), and I still think it was arguably harder to achieve back then.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

Jay from 00-Black Album was def perceived as the top rapper. Even when other people had bigger years, it was like when someone else wins the MVP but everyone still knows Bron is the best.

Yeah, the only contender for Jay in that era was Nas after Stillmatic. Ironically, Jay poking at Nas unprovoked is what caused Ether, and possibly even Stilmmatic to be as good as it was. I've always wondered if Jay helped Nas get inspired in that time.

After Blueprint 2 though (as uneven as that album was) it was clear that no one had as many flows, cadences, and pockets as Jay. 2002 and 2003 era Jay-Z (Blueprint 2, S. Carter Collection Mixtape, and The Black Album) Jay was at the peak of his game. I think he may have even been rhyming better on those 2 albums than he was on Reasonable Doubt. I like RD more than BP2 or TBA, but in terms of just pure skills?
'02 and '03 Jay was truly elite rhyming, and I'll put Jay in those 2 years up against anyone.

 

[THE MACHINE]

96 - Pac
97 - BIG
98 - DMX
99 - DMX
00 - EMINEM
01 - Jay
02 - EMINEM/NaS
03 - 50/OutKast
04 - 50
05 - Jeezy
06 - TI
07 - Kanye (Maybe Jay with American gangster)
08 - Wayne
09 - Jay, Ross
10 - Kanye, Drake
11 - Jay/Ye Drake
12 - Kendrick

 

[360dagod]

There is no need to re-write history. Ya'll nyqqas still talking about individual years?

But just for kicks tell me this...if DMX was bigger, why was the ensuing tour called the "Hard Knock Life Tour"? Seems weird to name the tour after the second hottest rapper on the tours album

Bruh...X had a huge influence beyond rap..

I dont wanna derail the thread, but I remember nikkas starting a ruff Ryder blood set in 98...

X was michael Jackson status to alot of these gang nikkas and people who were just grimy as fukk...

Jay had street appeal, but it was kinda like the bus driver who got a job after dabbling on the corner type...

 

[Figaro]

He was close to being the top rapper in 2001..

Spoiler

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

In 98 X was bigger than Jay when IDAHIH dropped. Jay took the crown when Vol 2 dropped. At that point, Jay was the biggest rapper in the game period. Flesh had a huge first week, but didn’t have a big single and it didn’t come close to selling as much as Vol 2 which dropped three months prior. Jay still has the crown. Once And Then There Was X dropped, X was clearly bigger.

well, you just said it yourself that FOMFBOMB didnt have a single, and was just thrown out there, so why compare its sales to volume 2??

X was still bigger than jay thru '99.

it was actually closer when "and then there was x" dropped - even tho X was moving more units, cuz jay was feeding the streets more with all the collabos & such thru 2000. once dynasty dropped, it was a wrap. jay had it on lock, while X was off in hollywood. people were moreso waiting on that jada solo.

Prodigy vs Jay in P’s prime would have been an entirely different battle.
And Jay started it with the “where you and your mans hung in every verse in your rhyme” line in 97.

he wouldve trashed prodigy in his prime too.

yea, jay started it. what i meant by "prodigy took it there" is that he was the one who really set it off, when he got offended by what jay said on "money, cash, hoes".
and prodigy was absolutely right to be offended, but im just saying.

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

Jay from 00-Black Album was def perceived as the top rapper. Even when other people had bigger years, it was like when someone else wins the MVP but everyone still knows Bron is the best.

THIS

back in those jay-z days, it was Shaq who was running the league but i think he only has 1 or 2 MVPs.

the post before he said 99-03. u know what i meant. now i dont know where youre from but i can tell u jay z was not getting play like that. so he def wasnt the hottest. as far the biggest we could play the numbers game too if u like.

No you didn't.

1994-1995, Biggie and Coolio were selling around the same amount of copies based on the certs. Biggie had a double platinum album, two platinum single, and a gold single during that period. Biggie= 4.5 million in 1994-1995. And that's just Biggie solo. Coolio had one platinum album (It Takes A Thief) , a platinum single (Fanstastic Voyage), and a double platinum single. Coolio= 4 million. The Gangsta's Paradise album went double platinum in Spring 1996 as it dropped late 1995. The single went double platinum in 1995, but didn't go triple until 1996. Mind you, Biggie was doing those numbers with one album within one year.

As for Pac, he had MATW, which went double platinum and "Dear Mama" which went platinum. If we extend it to 1996, Coolio had a double platinum album by then and a single that did another mill, which puts them about even. Pac doesn't pass him until All Eyez On Me, which was 3 million sold when he died. "How Do You Want It"/"California Love" was 2X platinum as a single on August 6, 1996.

youre ignoring dangerous minds.

i cant bother to argue with you at this point.

Jay never reigned supreme in any era.

This is another attempt to rewrite history in Jay's favor.

naw.
the problem is, some of yall are just in here counting up sales figures.
thats why things are getting lost in translation with some of yall.
i even told cats in the OP, that if all you can argue is sales, then this aint the thread for you.

EDIT: i see you get the point when talking about DMX.
LOL. you prolly just dont like jay.
'

But just for kicks tell me this...if DMX was bigger, why was the ensuing tour called the "Hard Knock Life Tour"? Seems weird to name the tour after the second hottest rapper on the tours album

it was really rocafella's tour.

def jam came in to play later, and tried to take credit on the slick.

Yeah I saw Backstage. Your explanation still doesn't make sense. If YOU are the hottest rapper, then you do your own tour. You don't join a "lesser" musical acts tour. The fact is in '98, neither was significantly bigger than the other.

DMX was bigger but it wasnt THAT significant of a gap. you could even say that DMX was 1A, while jay was 1B. so yea, with the given circumstances, it aint no thing for 1A to let 1B close out the show, since 1B's team did all the groundwork for the chit to happen. besides, X was a much better performer, so him being more popular and outshing jay every night with jay having to go on after him, just made him even more of the fan favorite, while jay has been a heel(wrestling term for 'bad guy') in the game, ever since. same scenario in 2003 with jay-z headlining the "roc da mic tour"(named after state property) over 50 cent. and 50 was significantly bigger than jay at that point,

besides, X didnt care about closing out the show on any tour. he made that clear back in the day, and said it doesnt matter where hes at on the bill on any tour, because hes gonna be the headliner regardless. i have footage of him saying this a year later during the ruff ryder/cash money tour.

Do you think Dre and Snopp were bigger than Eminem when the Up In Smoke Tour kicked because it was not called the Eminem Tour?

this

and the crowds were white as snow.

eminem was clearly the draw on that tour.

That argument is out of the blue. How many indie tours did u see major label artists have before that? It wasnt that X couldnt tour but that would mean RR would've had to bank it and being that they were fresh i doubt they had that amont of money. Labels set up tours.

As big as Pac, Snoop and nem were why didnt they do tours? U tellin me Jay was bigger than them?

It isnt like Jay would sell arenas had he went dolo.

meh.
pac was only big enough to do a tour, at the very end.


but yea, the OG death row snoop, dre & them tried to do a tour in '93 w/ Onyx and others on the bill, but it only lasted like 5 shows cuz something wasnt right with the money or whatever.

I’m pretty sure 2001 dropped in 2001. I distinctly remember waking up from a coma that year.

This is top 5 most delusional thing you’ve ever said

yea he hit a new low with that one.

i was so flabber-gasted, i couldnt even muster up a response.

 

[Starburst]

Eminem’s popularity should ALWAYS come with an asterisk. People who like to give Em props never want to admit that him being a white POP RAPPER (thats right I said it. Eminem is nothing more than a more skilled Vanilla Ice) who white people could latch onto was what catapulted him

Does the fact that Eminem is white affect his popularity? Without a doubt. His subject matter appeals more to the white consumers, however let us not pretend that if he stood across from whoever the favorite black rapper is today (including Jay-Z) he wouldn’t wash, dry then hand that rapper the towel as a souvenir.

50 cent mentioned in an interview, and I’m paraphrasing here that people are mad that a white rapper in the hip hop community does it way better than a lot of black rappers, and in my opinion this is factually correct. However, at this stage it shouldn’t even be about race...we need to move on from that and just appreciate talent.

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

To touch on what both of these posts.

I would've liked to have seen how much bigger DMX would've been in the internet era. I think a huge part of 50-fever all over the world was partially due to the rise of the internet. It definitely helped spread the momentum. But I mean history is what it is, and 50's 2003 was bigger than DMX's 1998.

As far as The Black Album, it was a huge event. But I still lean towards giving the year to 50. That was my senior year in high school so I remember it vividly. GRODT dropped in February, and The Black Album didn't drop until Black Friday in November. I don't even think recording started until the fall, because I remember 9th Wonder getting the call in September, and only a handful of joints had been made when he was up there.

So 50 had the advantage in 2003 of having the entire year for people to rock to that album. Jay pretty much only got the last month, and I can't help but tie in the G-Unit album as a 50 album as well.

Edit: Actually I might amend it to say that Jay had the bigger year in 2003 for hip-hop fans (because the retirement really was a big deal), and 50 had the bigger year for casual music listeners.

the internet was already huge when DMX blew up.

the difference is, there was a communal effort via the industry, media & the iovine machine for months leading up to GRODT's release. it was the most hyped rap album ever. then add the fact that he was billed as the blue chip protege of eminem & dr dre. he was aimed directly at casuals and mainstream middle america. DMX wasnt marketed like that.

in terms of the streets/culture, '98 DMX and '03 50 cent are about even. i would argue in favor of DMX actually.

 

[5n0man]

This conversation is usually related to who's the GOAT. And the next typical assertion is "Well since Jay was never the #1 rapper, he can't be the GOAT"

I disagree with this sentiment.

I dont think jay was the hottest rapper in the game for more than maybe 1 year but he's still one of the GOATs for remaining in the top 5 throughout most of his career.

Kendrick will never be as hot as drake, but he will be a GOAT when its all said and done.

Jay was never as hot as Em during his prime, but Jay's catalog is certainly more worthy of the GOAT conversation than em.

 

[WSFGDan]

nikkas trying to say Jay had a better 03 than 50 LMAOOOO

 

[JYoung24]

i just gave jay 2 or 3 years.

i agree with you about kobe. he never was #1.

Foh kobe was number 1 for years his peers has acknowledged this

 

[JYoung24]

Jay from 00-Black Album was def perceived as the top rapper. Even when other people had bigger years, it was like when someone else wins the MVP but everyone still knows Bron is the best.

Nah I dont know bron is the best