TikTok is urging users to call Congress about a looming ban

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TikTok owner has strong First Amendment case against US ban, professors say​


Professor: US faces "uphill battle" justifying law against First Amendment suit.​

JON BRODKIN - 4/26/2024, 1:49 PM

Illustration of the United States flag and a phone with a cracked screen running the TikTok app

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TikTok owner ByteDance is preparing to sue the US government now that President Biden has signed into law a bill that will ban TikTok in the US if its Chinese owner doesn't sell the company within 270 days. While it's impossible to predict the outcome with certainty, law professors speaking to Ars believe that ByteDance will have a strong First Amendment case in its lawsuit against the US.

One reason for this belief is that just a few months ago, a US District Court judge blocked a Montana state law that attempted to ban TikTok. In October 2020, another federal judge in Pennsylvania blocked a Trump administration order that would have banned TikTok from operating inside the US. TikTok also won a preliminary injunction against Trump in US District Court for the District of Columbia in September 2020.

"Courts have said that a TikTok ban is a First Amendment problem," Santa Clara University law professor Eric Goldman, who writes frequent analysis of legal cases involving technology, told Ars this week. "And Congress didn't really try to navigate away from that. They just went ahead and disregarded the court rulings to date."

The fact that previous attempts to ban TikTok have failed is "pretty good evidence that the government has an uphill battle justifying the ban," Goldman said.

TikTok users engage in protected speech​

The Montana law "bans TikTok outright and, in doing so, it limits constitutionally protected First Amendment speech," US District Judge Donald Molloy wrote in November 2023 when he granted a preliminary injunction that blocks the state law.

"The Montana court concluded that the First Amendment challenge would be likely to succeed. This will give TikTok some hope that other courts will follow suit with respect to a national order," Georgetown Law Professor Anupam Chander told Ars.

Molloy's ruling said that without TikTok, "User Plaintiffs are deprived of communicating by their preferred means of speech, and thus First Amendment scrutiny is appropriate." TikTok's speech interests must be considered "because the application's decisions related to how it selects, curates, and arranges content are also protected by the First Amendment," the ruling said.

Banning apps that let people talk to each other "is categorically impermissible," Goldman said. While the Chinese government engaging in propaganda is a problem, "we need to address that as a government propaganda problem, and not just limited to China," he said. In Goldman's view, a broader approach should also be used to stop governments from siphoning user data.

TikTok and opponents of bans haven't won every case. A federal judge in Texas ruled in favor of Texas Governor Greg Abbott in December 2023. But that ruling only concerned a ban on state employees using TikTok on government-issued devices rather than a law that potentially affects all users of TikTok.

Weighing national security vs. First Amendment​

US lawmakers have alleged that the Chinese Communist Party can weaponize TikTok to manipulate public opinion and access user data. But Chander was skeptical of whether the US government could convincingly justify its new law in court on national security grounds.

"Thus far, the government has refused to make public its evidence of a national security threat," he told Ars. "TikTok put in an elaborate set of controls to insulate the app from malign foreign influence, and the government hasn't shown why those controls are insufficient."

The ruling against Trump by a federal judge in Pennsylvania noted that "the Government's own descriptions of the national security threat posed by the TikTok app are phrased in the hypothetical."

Chander stressed that the outcome of ByteDance's planned case against the US is difficult to predict, however. "I would vote against the law if I were a judge, but it's unclear how judges will weigh the alleged national security risks against the real free expression incursions," he said.

Montana case may be “bellwether”​

There are at least three types of potential plaintiffs that could lodge constitutional challenges to a TikTok ban, Goldman said. There's TikTok itself, the users of TikTok who would no longer be able to post on the platform, and app stores that would be ordered not to carry the TikTok app.

Montana was sued by TikTok and users. Lead plaintiff Samantha Alario runs a local swimwear business and uses TikTok to market her products.

Montana Attorney General Austin Knudsen appealed the ruling against his state to the US Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit. The Montana case could make it to the Supreme Court before there is any resolution on the enforceability of the US law, Goldman said.

"It's possible that the Montana ban is actually going to be the bellwether that's going to set the template for the constitutional review of the Congressional action," Goldman said.

Case goes beyond First Amendment​

Court challenges may involve more than just the First Amendment. ByteDance could argue that it is being deprived of property under the takings clause, for example.

ByteDance could also argue that the law is a bill of attainder, which is legislation that punishes a specific person or group of people without a trial. The new US law allows for other applications to be designated as being controlled by foreign adversaries, but singles out TikTok and ByteDance by name.

"The fact that TikTok is named by name in the bill is a potential problem. It looks a little bit like a bill of attainder type of problem," Goldman said.

Law’s bipartisan support makes predictions tricky​

The TikTok ban-or-sale bill had support from Republicans and Democrats in Congress. The House Commerce Committee voted 50-0 to approve it in March. The TikTok legislation was later included in a larger appropriations bill that provides aid to Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan. The Senate voted 79-18 in favor of the legislation package.

Opponents of the TikTok ban-or-sale bill also included both Republicans and Democrats. "This bill cuts across partisan lines, and so I don't think we can easily assume a partisan outcome from the Supreme Court," Goldman said.

"Some justices seem to be disposed against technology companies, other justices may be more willing to defer to national security claims, and most of the justices are strongly inclined to protect free expression online," Chander said. "It is hard to predict if there is a coalition of five justices for or against such a law."

When asked if any precedents might indicate whether ByteDance is likely to win or lose, Chander pointed to a 1965 ruling that invalidated a US law that imposed restrictions on mailings of "communist political propaganda." The court challenge involved mail delivery of a Chinese magazine, the Peking Review.

"In Lamont v. PostMaster General, at the height of the Cold War, the Supreme Court sided with free speech against a law seeking to hamper the flow of Chinese propaganda into the United States," Chander said.

Actions against Huawei not quite the same​

The US has previously imposed strict limits on networking and hardware products from Chinese companies such as Huawei. But Goldman and Chander say that justifying the TikTok restriction is more difficult because of the free speech implications.

"The national security interest has to be balanced against the speech interest, which isn't always at play as obviously with other types of bans of goods or services based on national security grounds. This [TikTok] is a speech product that's being targeted and it has special considerations that other types of goods and services don't have," Goldman said.

As Chander said, "Huawei couldn't claim that its First Amendment rights were at stake, or the rights of its users. A change in ownership or a ban will have dramatic effect on the speech of both TikTok and its users."

A court could block the TikTok ban-or-sale provision while upholding laws that address national security problems more broadly. The same bill that requires a sale or ban on TikTok includes another section making it illegal for a data broker to sell or transfer sensitive data to foreign adversaries or entities controlled by foreign adversaries.

"One possibility is a court could uphold the data broker ban and strike down the outright ban of TikTok, saying there was a less restrictive alternative for you to use—and you actually literally used it," Goldman said.

That is what happened in the Montana case. Judge Molloy's ruling said "the current record leaves little doubt that Montana's legislature and Attorney General were more interested in targeting China's ostensible role in TikTok than with protecting Montana consumers. This is especially apparent in that the same legislature enacted an entirely separate law that purports to broadly protect consumers' digital data and privacy."

ByteDance reportedly prefers leaving US over selling​

While TikTok's case against the US will likely take many months, Goldman said we may get a better sense of the Supreme Court's views on social media much sooner. The court in February heard oral arguments on Florida and Texas state laws that limit how social media companies can moderate user-generated content.

"It remains unclear how vigorously the Supreme Court will protect users' First Amendment rights online, and that's the part I can't guess," Goldman said. "But we're going to get some data about that before we have any court rulings on the congressional TikTok ban."

If ByteDance loses in court, early indications suggest the company will pull TikTok out of the US instead of selling. ByteDance said this week that reports of it exploring a sale "are untrue," The Wall Street Journal reported.

A Reuters report says that sources indicate "TikTok owner ByteDance would prefer to shut down its loss-making app rather than sell it if the Chinese company exhausts all legal options to fight legislation to ban the platform from app stores in the US."
 

AStrangeName

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I don't know why people were expecting Bytedance to sell TikTok, when in reality the people who want the platform really want the algorithm, but it tied to Douyin, so the sell was never going to happen. Also, the US user base only accounted to 10% of the overall user base, revenue be damned.
 

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One less social media platform isn’t a bad thing imo:yeshrug:
You're missing the bigger picture. Social media platforms come and go all the time.

But it's the principle if what they're doing that is extremely dangerous.

I am really surprised that Biden let this happen.
 

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Billionaire Real Estate Mogul Hopes to Turn TikTok Into His Utopian Internet Dream​


Frank McCourt says he wants to buy TikTok to make a "new and better version of the internet."​

By

Matt Novak

Published Wednesday 12:25PM

Comments (26)

Frank McCourt speaks onstage during Unfinished Live at The Shed on September 22, 2022, in New York City.

Frank McCourt speaks onstage during Unfinished Live at The Shed on September 22, 2022, in New York City. Photo: Roy Rochlin/Getty Images for Unfinished Live (Getty Images)

Frank McCourt, the billionaire real estate mogul and former owner of the Los Angeles Dodgers, is currently working on a bid to buy TikTok, according to reports from several reputable news outlets. And while it remains to be seen whether TikTok’s parent company ByteDance will agree to a sale to anyone, McCourt’s background in utopian tech advocacy makes him an interesting figure to enter the race.

The U.S. Congress passed legislation in March that will force TikTok to be sold or face a total ban in the U.S., ostensibly over national security concerns. ByteDance is based in China and bipartisan hawks of the New Cold War insist Beijing is capable of monitoring and manipulating data on TikTok, supposedly brainwashing the 170 million Americans who currently use the app.

And that’s where potential buyers now come in, including investor groups led by people like former Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, reality show host Kevin O’Leary, and now Frank McCourt.

“We want all the capital to be values-aligned [around] a new and better version of the internet, where individuals are respected and they own and control their identity and their data,” McCourt told Semafor.

McCourt’s rather utopian vision of the internet isn’t just the ramblings of a billionaire kook. He created an initiative in 2021 called Project Liberty that advocates for open internet protocols and has the backing of some big names in the world of technology. Tim Berners-Lee, the creator of the web, is quoted in Semafor’s latest article praising McCourt, saying that he will, “embrace the critical values of privacy, data sovereignty, and user mental health.”

McCourt has also written a book, titled Our Biggest Fight: Reclaiming Liberty, Humanity, and Dignity in the Digital Age, released in March, laying out his case for humanizing the internet. It starts, McCourt insists, by reimagining the infrastructure of the web with new open protocols.

But the big question among all of this: Will ByteDance even sell TikTok to American investors? At this point, it seems unlikely. TikTok filed a lawsuit last week to block the legislation on First Amendment grounds and the tech company makes a pretty compelling case. With roughly half the U.S. population currently using the app, it would indeed be chilling to the speech of millions if TikTok was suddenly taken away.

But as we all know, laws are fake and any court in the country can rationalize the most hypocritical ruling as being a matter of principle. The U.S. spent the past two decades shaming other countries for banning American websites when other nations said they had national security concerns. Now it’s our turn to ban apps we don’t like, simply because we got outplayed at our own game. Whether guys like McCourt can snap up TikTok amid all this confusion remains to be seen.
 

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Trump, Who Famously Tried to Ban TikTok, Joins TikTok​

Donald Trump has already amassed nearly two million followers on the platform he once attempted to block in the U.S.

BY PETER WADE

JUNE 2, 2024

Trump, Who Famously Tried to Ban TikTok, Joins TikTok

(Photo Illustration by Jaap Arriens/NurPhoto via Getty Images) NURPHOTO VIA GETTY IMAGES

Donald Trump is officially on TikTok, an app he once tried to ban. The former president joined the China-based social media platform on Saturday night, posting a video of himself at an Ultimate Fighting Championship fight in New Jersey.

“The president is now on TikTok,” UFC CEO Dana White said into the camera while standing next to the candidate in the first video shared on Trump’s account.

“It’s my honor,” Trump said. With Kid Rock’s “American Badass” playing in the background, clips in the video show Trump in the UFC arena waving to fans as they cheered. Then, Trump said, “That was a good walk on, right?”

By noon on Sunday, the video had already reached more than 33 million views, and Trump gained just shy of two million followers. According to Trump campaign spokesperson Steven Cheung, the campaign will leave “no front undefended and this represents the continued outreach to a younger audience consuming pro-Trump and anti-Biden content,” he said in a statement.

While he may be embracing TikTok now, as president, Trump signed an executive order in 2020 that said “the spread in the United States of mobile applications developed and owned” by Chinese companies presented a threat to national security. TikTok sued and successfully blocked the order.

In April, Congress passed a bill Biden later signed that could effectively bar the app in the U.S. unless its owner, ByteDance, sells TikTok to an American company. The bill came to fruition out of fears that ByteDance may be trying to influence U.S. elections and could expose Americans’ data to China’s government. TikTok has filed suit to combat the legislation, claiming it violates the First Amendment.

“Congress has taken the unprecedented step of expressly singling out and banning TikTok: a vibrant online forum for protected speech and expression used by 170 million Americans to create, share, and view videos over the Internet,” the company wrote in the suit.

The federal government, including the F.B.I. and the Federal Communications Commission, has cautioned that Americans’ data held by ByteDance — including browsing habits, location history, and biometric information — could be shared with the Chinese government. TikTok has said it would not allow this to happen.

Even as recently as this past March, Trump has said that he believes TikTok presents a risk to national security. But, he has changed his mind about banning the app, saying it would only help Facebook, which he blames in part for his 2020 election loss.

“Frankly, there are a lot of people on TikTok that love it. There are a lot of young kids on TikTok who will go crazy without it,” Trump said on CNBC’s Squawk Box. “There’s a lot of good and there’s a lot of bad with TikTok. But the thing I don’t like is that without TikTok you’re going to make Facebook bigger, and I consider Facebook to be an enemy of the people, along with a lot of the media.”

Despite the president signing legislation to ban the app, Biden’s campaign is on TikTok. But the campaign has only 336,000 followers — far short of Trump’s personal account earning nearly two million and growing. Unlike Trump, Biden does not have a personal account on TikTok.

This article has been updated.
 

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TikTok says US ban is inevitable without a court order blocking law​

By David Shepardson

June 20, 20243:57 PM EDTUpdated 2 hours ago

Illustration shows U.S. flag and TikTok logo

U.S. flag is placed on a TikTok logo in this illustration taken March 20, 2024. REUTERS/Dado Ruvic/Illustration/File Photo Purchase Licensing Rights

, opens new tab


  • Summary
  • Companies



  • ByteDance argues divestiture is not possible technologically, commercially or legally
  • TikTok claims the law violates Americans' free speech rights
  • TikTok has spent over $2 billion on efforts to protect U.S. user data


WASHINGTON, June 20 (Reuters) - TikTok and Chinese parent ByteDance on Thursday urged a U.S. court to strike down a law they say will ban the popular short video app in the United States on Jan. 19, saying the U.S. government refused to engage in any serious settlement talks after 2022.

Legislation signed in April by President Joe Biden gives ByteDance until Jan. 19 next year to divest TikTok's U.S. assets or face a ban on the app used by 170 million Americans. ByteDance says a divestiture is "not possible technologically, commercially, or legally."

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia will hold oral arguments on lawsuits filed by TikTok and ByteDance along with TikTok users on Sept. 16. TikTok's future in the United States may rest on the outcome of the case which could impact how the U.S. government uses its new authority to clamp down on foreign-owned apps.

"This law is a radical departure from this country’s tradition of championing an open Internet, and sets a dangerous precedent allowing the political branches to target a disfavored speech platform and force it to sell or be shut down," ByteDance and TikTok argue in asking the court to strike down the law.

Driven by worries among U.S. lawmakers that China could access data on Americans or spy on them with the app, the measure was passed overwhelmingly in Congress just weeks after being introduced.

Lawyers for a group of TikTok users who have sued to prevent the app from being banned said the law would violate their free speech rights. In a filing on Thursday, they argued it is clear there are no imminent national security risks because the law "allows TikTok to continue operating through the rest of this year -- including during an election that the very president who signed the bill says is existential for our democracy."

TikTok says any divestiture or separation - even if technically possible - would take years and it argues that the law runs afoul of Americans' free speech rights.

Further, it says the law unfairly singles out TikTok for punitive treatment and "ignores many applications with substantial operations in China that collect large amounts of U.S. user data, as well as the many U.S. companies that develop software and employ engineers in China."

ByteDance recounted lengthy negotiations between the company and the U.S. government that it says abruptly ended in August 2022. The company also made public a redacted version of a 100-plus page draft national security agreement to protect U.S. TikTok user data and says it has spent more than $2 billion on the effort.

The draft agreement included giving the U.S. government a "kill switch" to suspend TikTok in the United States at the government’s sole discretion if the company did not comply with the agreement and says the U.S. demanded that TikTok's source code be moved out of China.

"This administration has determined that it prefers to try to shut down TikTok in the United States and eliminate a platform of speech for 170 million Americans, rather than continue to work on a practical, feasible, and effective solution to protect U.S. users through an enforceable agreement with the U.S. government," TikTok lawyers wrote the Justice Department in an April 1 email made public on Thursday.

The Justice Department declined to comment on the email but said last month the law "addresses critical national security concerns in a manner that is consistent with the First Amendment and other constitutional limitations." It said it would defend the legislation in court.

In 2020, then-President Donald Trump was blocked by the courts in his bid to ban TikTok and Chinese-owned WeChat, a unit of Tencent (0700.HK)

, opens new tab in the United States.

The White House says it wants to see Chinese-based ownership ended on national security grounds, but not a ban on TikTok. Earlier this month, Trump joined TikTok and has recently raised concerns about a potential ban.

The law prohibits app stores like those of Apple (AAPL.O)

, opens new tab and Alphabet's (GOOGL.O) , opens new tab Google from offering TikTok. It also bars internet hosting services from supporting TikTok unless it is divested by ByteDance.
 

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Trump says 'I'm for TikTok' as potential US ban looms​

By David Shepardson

July 16, 20247:36 PM EDTUpdated a day ago

A picture of U.S. President Donald Trump is seen on a smartphone in front of displayed Tik Tok and WeChat logos in this illustration

A picture of U.S. President Donald Trump is seen on a smartphone in front of displayed Tik Tok and WeChat logos in this illustration taken September 18, 2020. REUTERS/Dado Ruvic/Illustration/File Photo Purchase Licensing Rights, opens new tab

WASHINGTON, July 16 (Reuters) - Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump said he supports TikTok even as a potential ban looms if Chinese-parent company ByteDance fails to divest the short video app's U.S. assets.

"I’m for TikTok because you need competition. If you don’t have TikTok, you have Facebook and Instagram," Trump told Bloomberg BusinessWeek in an interview posted Tuesday. Trump previously called TikTok, which is used by 170 million Americans, a threat but then joined TikTok last month.

Trump, who has criticized Meta Platforms-owned Facebook and Instagram (META.O), opens new tab for suspending him for two years in the wake of the deadly Capitol Hill riot on Jan. 6, 2021, told an interviewer in June he would never support a TikTok ban, opens new tab.

TikTok declined to comment. As president, Trump tried to ban TikTok and Chinese-owned WeChat in 2020 but the move was blocked by the courts. In June 2021, President Joe Biden withdrew a series of Trump-era executive orders that sought to ban WeChat and TikTok.

Trump holds a majority stake in social media company Trump Media and Technology Group (DJT.O), opens new tab that operates rival network Truth Social. Trump Media has a $7 billion market cap despite quarterly revenue of around $770,000 - comparable to two U.S. Starbucks shops.

In September, a U.S. appeals court will hold oral arguments on legal challenges to a new law requiring China-based ByteDance to divest TikTok's U.S. assets by Jan. 19 or face a ban.

The hearing before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia will put the fate of TikTok in the middle of the final weeks of the 2024 presidential election.

Signed by Biden on April 24, the law gives ByteDance until Jan. 19 to sell TikTok or face a ban. The White House says it wants to see Chinese-based ownership ended on national security grounds, but not a ban on TikTok. Biden's campaign joined TikTok in February.

Driven by worries among U.S. lawmakers that China could access data on Americans or spy on them with the app, the measure was passed overwhelmingly in Congress in April just weeks after being introduced.
 

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"Something else is at play" —​



US can’t ban TikTok for security reasons while ignoring Temu, other apps, TikTok argues​



TikTok's survival in the US may depend on an appeals court ruling this December.​


Ashley Belanger - 9/16/2024, 5:23 PM

Andrew J. Pincus, attorney for TikTok and ByteDance, leaves the E. Barrett Prettyman US Court House with members of his legal team as the US Court of Appeals hears oral arguments in the case <em>TikTok Inc. v. Merrick Garland</em> on September 16 in Washington, DC.

Enlarge / Andrew J. Pincus, attorney for TikTok and ByteDance, leaves the E. Barrett Prettyman US Court House with members of his legal team as the US Court of Appeals hears oral arguments in the case TikTok Inc. v. Merrick Garland on September 16 in Washington, DC.
Kevin Dietsch / Staff | Getty Images News

reader comments​

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The fight to keep TikTok operating unchanged in the US reached an appeals court Monday, where TikTok and US-based creators teamed up to defend one of the world's most popular apps from a potential US ban.

TikTok lawyer Andrew Pincus kicked things off by warning a three-judge panel that a law targeting foreign adversaries that requires TikTok to divest from its allegedly China-controlled owner, ByteDance, is "unprecedented" and could have "staggering" effects on "the speech of 170 million Americans."

Pincus argued that the US government was "for the first time in history" attempting to ban speech by a specific US speaker—namely, TikTok US, the US-based entity that allegedly curates the content that Americans see on the app.

The government justified the law by claiming that TikTok may in the future pose a national security risk because updates to the app's source code occur in China. Essentially, the US is concerned that TikTok collecting data in the US makes it possible for the Chinese government to both spy on Americans and influence Americans by manipulating TikTok content.

But Pincus argued that there's no evidence of that, only the FBI warning "about the potential that the Chinese Communist Party could use TikTok to threaten US homeland security, censor dissidents, and spread its malign influence on US soil." And because the law carves out China-owned and controlled e-commerce apps like Temu and Shein—which a US commission deemed a possible danger and allegedly process even more sensitive data than TikTok—the national security justification for targeting TikTok is seemingly so under-inclusive as to be fatal to the government's argument, Pincus argued.

Jeffrey Fisher, a lawyer for TikTok creators, agreed, warning the panel that "what the Supreme Court tells us when it comes to under-inclusive arguments is [that they're] often a signal that something else is at play."

Daniel Tenny, a lawyer representing the US government, defended Congress' motivations for passing the law, explaining that the data TikTok collects is "extremely valuable to a foreign adversary trying to compromise the security" of the US. He further argued that a foreign adversary controlling "what content is shown to Americans" is just as problematic.

Rather than targeting Americans' expression on the app, Tenny argued that because ByteDance controls TikTok's source code, the speech on TikTok is not American speech but "expression by Chinese engineers in China." This is the "core point" that the US hopes the appeals court will embrace, that as long as ByteDance oversees TikTok's source code, the US will have justified concerns about TikTok data security and content manipulation. The only solution, the US government argues, is divestment.

TikTok has long argued that divestment isn't an option and that the law will force a ban. Pincus told the court that the "critical issue" with the US government's case is that the US does not have any evidence that TikTok US is under Chinese control. Because the US is only concerned about some "future Chinese control," the burden that the law places on speech must meet the highest standard of constitutional scrutiny. Any finding otherwise, Pincus warned the court, risked turning the First Amendment "on its head," potentially allowing the government to point to foreign ownership to justify regulating US speech on any platform.

But as the panel explained, the US government had tried for two years to negotiate with ByteDance and find through Project Texas a way to maintain TikTok in the US while avoiding national security concerns. Because every attempt to find a suitable national security arrangement has seemingly failed, Congress was potentially justified in passing the law, the panel suggested, especially if the court rules that the law is really just trying to address foreign ownership—not regulate content. And even though the law currently only targets TikTok directly, the government could argue that's seemingly because TikTok is so far the only foreign adversary-controlled company flagged as a potential national security risk, the panel suggested.

TikTok insisted that divestment is not the answer and that Congress has made no effort to find a better solution. Pincus argued that the US did not consider less restrictive means for achieving the law's objectives without burdening speech on TikTok, such as a disclosure mechanism that could prevent covert influence on the app by a foreign adversary.

But US circuit judge Neomi Rao pushed back on this, suggesting that disclosure maybe isn't "always" the only appropriate mechanism to block propaganda in the US—especially when the US government has no way to quickly assess constantly updated TikTok source code developed in China. Pincus had confirmed that any covert content manipulation uncovered on the app would only be discovered after users were exposed.

"They say it would take three years to just review the existing code," Rao said. "How are you supposed to have disclosure in that circumstance?"

"I think disclosure has been the historic answer for covert content manipulation," Pincus told the court, branding the current law as "unusual" for targeting TikTok and asking the court to overturn the alleged ban.

The government has given ByteDance until mid-January to sell TikTok, or else the app risks being banned in the US. The appeals court is expected to rule by early December.

TikTok is not like other apps, creators argued​


The court pushed back on Pincus' characterization of the law as unconstitutionally targeting TikTok US, suggesting that no speech would seemingly be burdened if TikTok continued operating after divestiture from Chinese-controlled ownership. Theoretically, users could continue using the app as they had before, the panel suggested.

In response, Pincus argued that divestiture is impossible.

"This isn't just about divestiture," Pincus told the court. "This is about a ban."

But even if divestiture were somehow possible, Pincus argued that requiring it would still burden speech because altering TikTok's algorithm would make the content different for users.

Fisher similarly argued that there is no interchangeable platform for TikTok users and that users voluntarily choose to share data with TikTok. He cited one client, a TikTok user with millions of followers, with fewer than 100 followers on YouTube. That user quickly learned that not only are the audiences on other platforms vastly different, Fisher argued, but so are the creator tools, which means "the nature of the speech is different" on TikTok.

Defending Americans choosing TikTok above other platforms, Fisher said that Americans have a "fundamental interest" in working with the publisher or editor of their choice, which Congress is allegedly trying to take away. Because the law is allegedly motivated to suppress expression, Fisher said that there is no way for the US government to argue around the First Amendment successfully. Law professors have previously suggested that TikTok's First Amendment case is strong.

"American speakers are silenced" or "consistently affected by this law, so you can't get out of the First Amendment problem," Fisher argued. "Even in a world where you're dealing with totally unprotected speech," if the government is "choosing, selecting, and suppressing some speech based on viewpoint, but not another," the law requires strict constitutional scrutiny, Fisher argued, which the law allegedly cannot survive.

Tenny responded by saying that it's still unclear what ByteDance would actually do if the law is enforced. ByteDance could "have a change of heart," Tenny suggested, and sell off TikTok US. He also argued that if ByteDance was shut down due to some other violation, like tax fraud, TikTok creators would not be able to raise a First Amendment challenge.

Judges ask: What about in war times?​


It's unclear which side the panel found more persuasive. Throughout the hearing, the panel raised several hypotheticals to weigh both sides' arguments, perhaps most notably pondering if the law's provisions would potentially be permissible in war times.

Pincus conceded that perhaps if China and the US were at war, the US might be able to justify a law burdening speech, but the same issues with the law's under-inclusivity would arise in that heightened scenario. Fisher agreed that he could "imagine" that the law could escape strict constitutional scrutiny in "the heat of war" but reminded the panel that "we're not at war."

"The government still has to come in and explain in reasonable terms why it singled out one particular collector of data and excluded everybody else," Fisher suggested.
 

AStrangeName

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Something tells me that there's a chance that TikTok won't be banned, in spite of Meta (Facebook), Amazon, Google and AIPAC pushed heavy for the ban to happen. And also seeing how Wired made an article made on Elon being a national security risk, I could see the government falling back on the TikTok ban seeing as Elon, who owns an US social media platform is causing chaos.
 

bnew

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US appeals court upholds TikTok law forcing its sale​


By David Shepardson and Mike Scarcella

December 6, 202412:28 PM ESTUpdated 10 min ago

A TikTok logo is displayed on a smartphone in this illustration taken January 6, 2020. REUTERS/Dado Ruvic/File Photo Purchase Licensing Rights
, opens new tab


  • Summary
  • Companies
  • Court decision likely to be appealed to the Supreme Court
  • DOJ says TikTok is a threat to national security and should be sold
  • Trump has vowed to prevent TikTok from being barred

WASHINGTON, Dec 6 (Reuters) - A U.S. federal appeals court on Friday upheld a law requiring Chinese-based ByteDance to divest its popular short video app TikTok in the United States by early next year or face a ban.

The decision is a win for the Justice Department and opponents of the Chinese-owned app and a devastating blow to ByteDance. The ruling now increases the possibility of an unprecedented ban in just six weeks on a social media app used by 170 million Americans.

The ruling is expected to be appealed to the Supreme Court.

Free speech advocates immediately criticized the decision. The American Civil Liberties Union said it sets a "flawed and dangerous precedent."

"Banning TikTok blatantly violates the First Amendment rights of millions of Americans who use this app to express themselves and communicate with people around the world,” said Patrick Toomey, deputy director of the ACLU's National Security Project.

But the appeals court said the law “was the culmination of extensive, bipartisan action by the Congress and by successive presidents. It was carefully crafted to deal only with control by a foreign adversary, and it was part of a broader effort to counter a well-substantiated national security threat posed by the PRC (People's Republic of China)."

U.S. appeals court Judges Sri Srinivasan, Neomi Rao and Douglas Ginsburg considered the legal challenges brought by TikTok and users against the law that gives ByteDance until Jan. 19 to sell or divest TikTok's U.S. assets or face a ban.

The decision -- unless the Supreme Court reverses it -- puts TikTok's fate in the hands of first President JoeBiden on whether to grant a 90-day extension of the Jan. 19 deadline to force a sale and then President-elect Donald Trump, who takes office on Jan. 20. But it's not clear whether ByteDance could meet the heavy burden to show it had made significant progress toward a divestiture needed to trigger the extension.

Trump, who unsuccessfully tried to ban TikTok during his first term in 2020, said before the November presidential election he would not allow the TikTok ban.

TikTok said it expected the Supreme Court would reverse the appeals court decision on First Amendment grounds.

"The Supreme Court has an established historical record of protecting Americans' right to free speech, and we expect they will do just that on this important constitutional issue," TikTok said in a statement, adding the law will result "in outright censorship of the American people."

The Justice Department did not have an immediate comment on the decision.

The decision upholds the law giving the U.S. government sweeping powers to ban other foreign-owned apps that could raise concerns about collection of Americans' data. In 2020, Trump also tried to ban Tencent-owned WeChat, but was blocked by the courts.

Shares of Meta Platforms (META.O)
, opens new tab
, which competes against TikTok in online ads, hit an intraday record high following the ruling, last up over 3%. Google parent Alphabet (GOOGL.O)
, opens new tab
, whose YouTube video platform also competes with TikTok, was up over 1% following the ruling.

TIKTOK BAN LOOMS​


The court acknowledged its decision would lead to TikTok's ban on Jan. 19 without an extension from Biden.

"Consequently, TikTok's millions of users will need to find alternative media of communication," the court said, which was because of China's "hybrid commercial threat to U.S. national security, not to the U.S. Government, which engaged with TikTok through a multi-year process in an effort to find an alternative solution."

The opinion was written by Ginsburg, an appointee of President Ronald Reagan, and joined by Rao, who was named to the bench by Trump, and Srinivasan, an appointee of President Barack Obama.

The Justice Department says under Chinese ownership, TikTok poses a serious national security threat because of its access to vast personal data of Americans, asserting China can covertly manipulate information that Americans consume via TikTok.

U.S. officials have also warned TikTok's management is beholden to the Chinese government, which could compel the company to share the data of its American users.

TikTok has denied it has or ever would share U.S. user data, accusing American lawmakers in the lawsuit of advancing "speculative" concerns.

TikTok and ByteDance argue the law is unconstitutional and violates Americans' free speech rights. They call it "a radical departure from this country's tradition of championing an open Internet."

ByteDance, backed by Sequoia Capital, Susquehanna International Group, KKR & Co (KKR.N)
, opens new tab
, and General Atlantic, among others, was valued at $268 billion in December 2023 when it offered to buy back around $5 billion worth of shares from investors, Reuters reported then.

The law prohibits app stores like Apple (AAPL.O)
, opens new tab
and Alphabet's (GOOGL.O)
, opens new tab
Google from offering TikTok and bars internet hosting services from supporting TikTok unless ByteDance divests TikTok by the deadline.

Apple and Google did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

In a concurring opinion, Srinivasan acknowledged the decision will have major impacts, noting "170 million Americans use TikTok to create and view all sorts of free expression and engage with one another and the world. And yet, in part precisely because of the platform’s expansive reach, Congress and multiple Presidents determined that divesting it from (China's) control is essential to protect our national security."

He added that "Because the record reflects that Congress's decision was considered, consistent with longstanding regulatory practice, and devoid of an institutional aim to suppress particular messages or ideas, we are not in a position to set it aside."
 

Traveler

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US appeals court upholds TikTok law forcing its sale​


By David Shepardson and Mike Scarcella

December 6, 202412:28 PM ESTUpdated 10 min ago

A TikTok logo is displayed on a smartphone in this illustration taken January 6, 2020. REUTERS/Dado Ruvic/File Photo Purchase Licensing Rights
, opens new tab


  • Summary
  • Companies
  • Court decision likely to be appealed to the Supreme Court
  • DOJ says TikTok is a threat to national security and should be sold
  • Trump has vowed to prevent TikTok from being barred

WASHINGTON, Dec 6 (Reuters) - A U.S. federal appeals court on Friday upheld a law requiring Chinese-based ByteDance to divest its popular short video app TikTok in the United States by early next year or face a ban.

The decision is a win for the Justice Department and opponents of the Chinese-owned app and a devastating blow to ByteDance. The ruling now increases the possibility of an unprecedented ban in just six weeks on a social media app used by 170 million Americans.

The ruling is expected to be appealed to the Supreme Court.

Free speech advocates immediately criticized the decision. The American Civil Liberties Union said it sets a "flawed and dangerous precedent."

"Banning TikTok blatantly violates the First Amendment rights of millions of Americans who use this app to express themselves and communicate with people around the world,” said Patrick Toomey, deputy director of the ACLU's National Security Project.

But the appeals court said the law “was the culmination of extensive, bipartisan action by the Congress and by successive presidents. It was carefully crafted to deal only with control by a foreign adversary, and it was part of a broader effort to counter a well-substantiated national security threat posed by the PRC (People's Republic of China)."

U.S. appeals court Judges Sri Srinivasan, Neomi Rao and Douglas Ginsburg considered the legal challenges brought by TikTok and users against the law that gives ByteDance until Jan. 19 to sell or divest TikTok's U.S. assets or face a ban.

The decision -- unless the Supreme Court reverses it -- puts TikTok's fate in the hands of first President JoeBiden on whether to grant a 90-day extension of the Jan. 19 deadline to force a sale and then President-elect Donald Trump, who takes office on Jan. 20. But it's not clear whether ByteDance could meet the heavy burden to show it had made significant progress toward a divestiture needed to trigger the extension.

Trump, who unsuccessfully tried to ban TikTok during his first term in 2020, said before the November presidential election he would not allow the TikTok ban.

TikTok said it expected the Supreme Court would reverse the appeals court decision on First Amendment grounds.

"The Supreme Court has an established historical record of protecting Americans' right to free speech, and we expect they will do just that on this important constitutional issue," TikTok said in a statement, adding the law will result "in outright censorship of the American people."

The Justice Department did not have an immediate comment on the decision.

The decision upholds the law giving the U.S. government sweeping powers to ban other foreign-owned apps that could raise concerns about collection of Americans' data. In 2020, Trump also tried to ban Tencent-owned WeChat, but was blocked by the courts.

Shares of Meta Platforms (META.O)
, opens new tab
, which competes against TikTok in online ads, hit an intraday record high following the ruling, last up over 3%. Google parent Alphabet (GOOGL.O)
, opens new tab
, whose YouTube video platform also competes with TikTok, was up over 1% following the ruling.

TIKTOK BAN LOOMS​


The court acknowledged its decision would lead to TikTok's ban on Jan. 19 without an extension from Biden.

"Consequently, TikTok's millions of users will need to find alternative media of communication," the court said, which was because of China's "hybrid commercial threat to U.S. national security, not to the U.S. Government, which engaged with TikTok through a multi-year process in an effort to find an alternative solution."

The opinion was written by Ginsburg, an appointee of President Ronald Reagan, and joined by Rao, who was named to the bench by Trump, and Srinivasan, an appointee of President Barack Obama.

The Justice Department says under Chinese ownership, TikTok poses a serious national security threat because of its access to vast personal data of Americans, asserting China can covertly manipulate information that Americans consume via TikTok.

U.S. officials have also warned TikTok's management is beholden to the Chinese government, which could compel the company to share the data of its American users.

TikTok has denied it has or ever would share U.S. user data, accusing American lawmakers in the lawsuit of advancing "speculative" concerns.

TikTok and ByteDance argue the law is unconstitutional and violates Americans' free speech rights. They call it "a radical departure from this country's tradition of championing an open Internet."

ByteDance, backed by Sequoia Capital, Susquehanna International Group, KKR & Co (KKR.N)
, opens new tab
, and General Atlantic, among others, was valued at $268 billion in December 2023 when it offered to buy back around $5 billion worth of shares from investors, Reuters reported then.

The law prohibits app stores like Apple (AAPL.O)
, opens new tab
and Alphabet's (GOOGL.O)
, opens new tab
Google from offering TikTok and bars internet hosting services from supporting TikTok unless ByteDance divests TikTok by the deadline.

Apple and Google did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

In a concurring opinion, Srinivasan acknowledged the decision will have major impacts, noting "170 million Americans use TikTok to create and view all sorts of free expression and engage with one another and the world. And yet, in part precisely because of the platform’s expansive reach, Congress and multiple Presidents determined that divesting it from (China's) control is essential to protect our national security."

He added that "Because the record reflects that Congress's decision was considered, consistent with longstanding regulatory practice, and devoid of an institutional aim to suppress particular messages or ideas, we are not in a position to set it aside."
:camby:
 
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