Like you just did. That had nothing to do with my arguments against Sowell, I just cleared the air before I got to that breh
Thomas Sowell: Welfare makes excuses for things that are wrong.
- Thread starter William F. Russell
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Like you just did. That had nothing to do with my arguments against Sowell, I just cleared the air before I got to that breh
I'm not denying welfare isn't a clutch I'm arguing that there's a deeper systemic issues within society that impact the reasons why one particular race of people are more reliant on government assistance than other races.
The argument that liberals created the welfare system to control blacks and keep them to vote Democrat (that Sowell believes) is a myth as well because anybody can apply for welfare if they meet the qualifications. Yet more people in on group (African-Americans) rely on it than other race groups.
So the problem isn't welfare itself...its gotta be something more systemic that makes welfare dependence an issue.
even if this were true, which i doubt, seeing as poor whites still have access to networks we're immediately shut out from; i have no sympathy towards poor whites. they've bought the lie that they have more in common with billionaire cacs than the black folks in the same spot.
ignorethis
RIP Fresh RIP Doe RIP Phat
You mentioned Sowell in your post so I assumed that was your argument against what he said.
but I think you're talking past the issue.
We have breathtakingly powerful historical and contemporary economic and social discrimination against black people everywhere you look, and yet we want to talk about welfare? How does that even work? You guys are treating welfare as the centerpiece of your premise. This is a non-starter....there is literally nowhere to go there because its not a real argument.
In order for black economic self sustenance and prosperity to happen, racism cant be profitable or encouraged. The economic crash of 2008 bore out that institutional racism across all sectors and arenas is still as potent as ever. Without getting into specifics we would need a collective response similar to FDR's response post-great depression but centered on black communities. Economic pressures mitigated, and economic and social stimulation inserted.
We've tried destroying black people for 400 years..why havent we ever tried investing in us? LOL. Like for real.
That's because you didn't read what I said.
1. 1920s Harlem can't rebut Obama's legacy of Jim Crow and Slavery argument because Jim Crow didn't end until the 60's
2. Even when Jim Crow ended the state, by law, had to make affirmative steps to correct racial policies from the past. This didn't start until the 80s and continues today
3. Therefore a good portion of black people on welfare, particularly the elderly are not there as the result of ancient transgressions but very recent ones which Sowell ignores.
ignorethis
RIP Fresh RIP Doe RIP Phat
Sowell never argues this though, he doesn't think that why welfare was created. He argues that liberal proponents of welfare either unintentionally fukked up the black family structure in their attempts to help blacks, or intentionally messed it up with social experimentation through certain policies. He says democrats keep supporting welfare even though it's doesn't seem to be helping, because it's a easy way to farm black votes.
Sowell doesn't think the core problem in the black community is welfare either, he has always made it be known that he thinks that the lack of the traditional family structure is underlying root of most modern black problems, he just thinks welfare contributed to removal of that traditional family structure.
People act like Sowell didn't grow up poor with nothing but black people as well, what he's saying is "We were poorer and more oppressed back then, but our community weren't nearly as broken and fragmented back then, what happened?"
Broke Wave
The GOAT
Yea there are black families in the upper quintiles, but where do you think most black families are ?
And like I said that is the national average, blacks usually trail/underperform vs. the national average. If you took that chart as proof that blacks are wealthier than 50 years ago, you're either very very optimistic or intentionally being dense, because it's way more probably that it proves the opposite.
It does not make my statement incorrect. It is just as valid as the assertion that welfare ended the black family.
If we agree that welfare ended the black family, then we must agree according to evidence bat as a ehole when the blsck family declined, black poverty had also declined.
ignorethis
RIP Fresh RIP Doe RIP Phat
What does that have to do with Sowell's point of "We were poorer and more oppressed back then, but our communities weren't nearly as broken and fragmented back then."
If anything doesn't that support his point that blacks were literally living under Jim Crow but things were much safer and decent?
We were literally living under it in the 60's too. One could argue it was worse then because we were openly challenging it and whites felt intimidated by that and retaliated in ways they wouldn't have in the 20 ' s when we knew our place. Yea I'd imagine we were better off in alot of areas when we knew our place. Sowell can pin it on welfare if he wants but imo black community is facing pressure as we attain more. And we are attaining and achieving more, even as larger groups of blacks suffer. It's a dichotomy Sowell also ignores. But that's the problem when you make correlation equal causation. You can blame welfare if you want to, I'll blame whites doubling down on their privilege since we started going to school, owning homes, and having governors and presidents. Theres historical basis for that too like reconstruction followed by Jim crow.
Dzali OG
Dz Ali OG...Pay me like you owe me!
I work with welfare and....those days indeed are gone! Being on welfare is a job now. Recepients have to volunteer for 30-40 hours per week. All for let's say a household of 3....$303 dollars per month.
Foodstamps....maybe 450. Section 8 and hud are trippin, can't count on that anymore. These mothers are now homeless!
That's not living the life. Wtf can you do with 300 per month?
ignorethis
RIP Fresh RIP Doe RIP Phat
Black poverty rate declined if you look at it in a vacuum, if you compared black poverty vs the national average that decline gets put into perspective.
it still remains at roughly double the national average, so you can argue that blacks aren't doing better due to any improvements within the black community but rather because the country overall is doing better. Not even mention the fact that Jim Crow is gone.
I don't know how you can look at these statistics, then factor in rises in crimes, the creation of middle class ghettos, and and try and argue that blacks communities are doing better now than then.
ignorethis
RIP Fresh RIP Doe RIP Phat
What does that have to do with blacks robbing and killing each other and black men and women being unable to form cohesive families? Are they retaliating with mind control?
Blacks a committing detrimental act toward each other and themselves because we're attaining more?
Safer and decent during jim crow? Whats next, are you going to make an argument that blacks were better off during chattel slavery and as property because they had a much higher employment rate then versus now?
Try these statistics on for size...Black families had much higher rates of wedlock back then versus now, and yet the black poverty rate (before great society initiatives) was about double what it is now. So even with two parents in the household, black people were far poorer then, which shows how dire the black family was and how a two parent household aint shyt if you have an economic system that undermines and robs them of opportunity and prosperity.
Talking about crime in comparison with that time period versus today obviously ignores the post-60s developments of an increase in population, crack epidemic, the prison industrial complex, blacks quarantined in densely urban centers communities of decay, proliferation of guns readily available, etc...variables not present during the early-to-mid 20th century. Plus the out-of-wedlock rate has moved upwards cross-racially...the devaluation of marriage is an American cultural issue, and know that the out-of-wedlock rate for blacks was always abnormally high even during the latter stages of the jim crow era when these metrics were measured.
Stop with the racist argument that blacks were better under jim crow terrorism. The crime rates in black communities have been in a free fall since the 90s....how do you address this?
Dzali OG
Dz Ali OG...Pay me like you owe me!
Welfare could be fixed rather eadily, and I'm not a genius, so I know the solution is over looked on purpose.
It's overlooked because it would advance people on welfare too fast.
All that's needed is a requirement that anyone on welfare must be enrolled in vocational skill training or some other secondary educational institution.
Coupled with a requirement for the kids to maintain say a C grade point average.
This would enable welfare cases to exit welfare with a skill that could carry them and pos Sibley education. The kids would also be on track to continue their education.
It's set up the way it is because the welfare people are designated to be the base if this pyramid. Throw in that there's not enough JOBS to employ all those people if they obtained the skills.
It's overlooked because it would advance people on welfare too fast.
All that's needed is a requirement that anyone on welfare must be enrolled in vocational skill training or some other secondary educational institution.
Coupled with a requirement for the kids to maintain say a C grade point average.
This would enable welfare cases to exit welfare with a skill that could carry them and pos Sibley education. The kids would also be on track to continue their education.
It's set up the way it is because the welfare people are designated to be the base if this pyramid. Throw in that there's not enough JOBS to employ all those people if they obtained the skills.