This deserves its own thread: WWE is now a heel territory and its 100% because of HHH

[dakidbanks]

How Brock not a heel?!

What does he do that a heel does? He doesn't cheat to win nor sneak attack ppl

 

[Beautiful Bobby Eatin]

The neckbeards are also to blame for this problem. If the guy comes out of the Indys, the fans automatically love him (see Cesaro). If a guy comes out of WWE Development, they have a hurdle to climb with the fan reactions (see Roman Reigns). Would Cesaro & Roman Reigns be getting the same reactions today if Cesaro came out of developmental & Roman was wrestling in ROH 10 years ago? I don't think so.

Batista had to go through this too. Lucky for Batista, they hid him away on Smackdown during the brand split so he wasn't as shoved down everyone's throat like Cena was.

You say this like Cesaro and Roman are equal in the ring though. By your logic, fans would never have gotten behind Enzo and Cass. Dont blame internet fans for developmental being a complete and utter failure. If Roman was dope as a face like that, he would get cheered

 

[FunkDoc1112]

The Attitude era had it right. Long babyface reigns don't really work in today's day and age with TV every week. Fans get bored. At the same time, as NWA already showed 30 years ago with how much nonstop Dusty finishes damn near drove them to bakruptcy, fans get worn down by long heel title runs and stop caring. There needs to be a give & take. Face wins title, is on top for a few months, gets screwed over, has to fight to get his spot back, other babyfaces get in the mix, etc.

Seems like nowadays, the heel just wins the title, goes through challenger after challenger through various shenanigans, and a face eventually wins...but immediately loses it again.

If the good guy wins all the time, there's no tension, but if the bad guy always wins, eventually there stops being a reason to continue watching because the saga will never end. You're not watching a story to see the bad guy come out on top, because the path to the bad guy's defeat is the whole story.

 

[TheGreatShowtime]

You say this like Cesaro and Roman are equal in the ring though. By your logic, fans would never have gotten behind Enzo and Cass. Dont blame internet fans for developmental being a complete and utter failure. If Roman was dope as a face like that, he would get cheered

Agree that Cesaro and Roman aren't equals in the ring, but that really wasn't the point of the comparison. The thing is, Roman does get cheered by a large portion of the audience. I said it earlier, children aren't swayed by Internet rumors of Cokeboy naming Roman to be the heir apparent to Cena. They genuinely enjoy Roman Reigns because he was being built up like a traditional powerhouse babyface. To be fair, Roman's in-ring work doesn't warrant the reaction fans give him. His promos have gotten better too. I understand why people boo him, but I just don't agree with it

 

[Beautiful Bobby Eatin]

Agree that Cesaro and Roman aren't equals in the ring, but that really wasn't the point of the comparison. The thing is, Roman does get cheered by a large portion of the audience. I said it earlier, children aren't swayed by Internet rumors of Cokeboy naming Roman to be the heir apparent to Cena. They genuinely enjoy Roman Reigns because he was being built up like a traditional powerhouse babyface. To be fair, Roman's in-ring work doesn't warrant the reaction fans give him. His promos have gotten better too. I understand why people boo him, but I just don't agree with it

Kids will generally like whoever you tell them to so its hardly a gauge on how Roman is doing. Roman is fine and not worthy of the majority of the boos he gets but those boos arent directed at him per se. Its directed at the IDEA of him being the guy. Those same people cannot stop watching because some of their favorites appear on the same show (dont think this has escaped Vince's notice either) so they "revolt" in that way. But in Reigns case it doesnt all click the way it should. And the sad part is very little of it is even his fault. But in any event personally he doesnt entertain me and he is largely why i still dont watch Raw

 

[Berniewood Hogan]

Kids will generally like whoever you tell them to

except Dolp Zilga

 

[dh86]

The Attitude era had it right. Long babyface reigns don't really work in today's day and age with TV every week. Fans get bored. At the same time, as NWA already showed 30 years ago with how much nonstop Dusty finishes damn near drove them to bakruptcy, fans get worn down by long heel title runs and stop caring. There needs to be a give & take. Face wins title, is on top for a few months, gets screwed over, has to fight to get his spot back, other babyfaces get in the mix, etc.

Seems like nowadays, the heel just wins the title, goes through challenger after challenger through various shenanigans, and a face eventually wins...but immediately loses it again.

If the good guy wins all the time, there's no tension, but if the bad guy always wins, eventually there stops being a reason to continue watching because the saga will never end. You're not watching a story to see the bad guy come out on top, because the path to the bad guy's defeat is the whole story.

There's fatigue in the long dominant heel title runs also because it's largely the same shyt with different faces. It's like they took a cue from Honky Tonk Man, and late 80s Flair of what a heel champion is and run that shyt into the ground.

 

[Momentum]

Booking doesnt matter anymore.

Face = smark approved now so all those bad guys minus maybe Jinder and Corbin get face reactions.

 

[Mack de la Rocha]

Heels are more interesting to adults and I would think adults make up a larger share of the audience then they ever had.

When I was a kid, the majority of group seating was basically Dad/Mom + 3 kids.

As an adult, the groups seems more like 3 - 5 friends who are Attitude Era babies.