Religion/Spirituality Theism Discussion (Abrahamic Religions, Religious Philosophy, etc.)

[spoiled]

So if you truly love your children you must kill it before it becomes an adult

 

[Hip-Hop-Bulls]

That's a burden you need to prove man. If you have the knowledge NO afterlife exists, for mankind, id to see it. My opinion, with the stuff that goes on in this earth, people do the vilest things. There has to be. No way evil can exist, and there be no recompense

There's nothing I need to prove. Nobody in their life time says "I remember such and such from my past life". And if they do, you know good and well they bsing. Your opinion is exactly that son, your opinion. what makes you who you are are your parents and your experiences. There is no 2nd life, that's why people do everything possible to live a long life.

 

[intilectual recipricol]

nikkaz confusin wishful thinkin with reality... makes me sad maynes

 

[darealvelle]

When you die, that's it. You end up food for lawn grass.

 

[newarkhiphop]

Anti Islam






Pro Islam




these were two of the more interesting speakers, each side had 3 speakers

 

[Crakface]

What is Islams track record with black people?

 

[Marvel]

That muslim dude was going in



























Still don't like them though

 

[Allah]

people are violent, not religions

every group of people has used religion for political purposes, read some history

 

[Broke Wave]

Is Islam a "Peaceful Religion" I think the answer is a resounding yes... is Islam a "Religion of Peace" the answer is in my opinion of course not... nor should it be.

Being a "Peaceful Religion" means that Islam and Muslims can coexist with those who don't believe, and on balance world history confirms this view.

 

[tru_m.a.c]

Is Islam a "Peaceful Religion" I think the answer is a resounding yes... is Islam a "Religion of Peace" the answer is in my opinion of course not... nor should it be.

Being a "Peaceful Religion" means that Islam and Muslims can coexist with those who don't believe, and on balance world history confirms this view.

Eh I think your premises contradict. Just can't put my finger on what looks odd.

 

[88m3]

Games Muslims Play

 

[Broke Wave]

Eh I think your premises contradict. Just can't put my finger on what looks odd.

Worded it that way on purpose.

Islam in and of itself does not permit peace as a response to injustice and oppression, so it cannot be characterized as a religion of peace as say Buddhism.

But Islam can coexist peacefully as there are no verses or religious teachings that permit open unprovoked violence, or any type of aggression against a people.

 

[Blackking]

What is Islams track record with black people?

I mean..... we can't use simple catch phrases or we can really look at it. I feel it's easier to say any idea, concept, religion, or action that has every happened on this planet has been bad for black people - including american civil rights movements, african 'revolutions, etc.

or we can really look at shyt.

Islam was a religion inseparable from trade relationships and Africa and Arabia were old partners in trade so it is no surprise that Africans were among the first handful of people to accept the new religion brought by the Prophet Muhammad. It is said that when Bilal the Ethiopian, one of the most revered legends of Islam, first heard of Islam he called it the ancient religion. The call to pray which echoes over Muslims lands today was first carried on African lungs (by Bilal).

Islam became a permanent feature in Africa when the prophet Muhammad in 612 sent the first group of the early Muslims to be protected from Arab persecution by the Negus of Ethiopia; this was the first Hijirah. Islam was thus spreading in Africa before it even reached Medina.


It is important to note that while Islam generally disseminated in Africa peacefully it took wars, such as the Riddah wars, to conquer the Arabs into accepting Islam. In the mid-tenth century during the rule of the Umayed Caliph Abdul-Rahman III (929-961), Muslims of African origin sailed westward from the Spanish port of Delba (Palos) into the “Ocean of darkness an fog.” They returned after a long absence with much booty from a “strange and curious land.”

It is evident that people of Muslim origin are known to have accompanied Columbus and subsequent Spanish explorers to the New World. Also it is reported that the descendants of Kanka Musa of Mali made and epic voyage with a 2000 strong fleet in search of the Americas. Recent linguistic, cultural and archaeological finds in Brazil and Peru offer documentary evidence" that West African Mandinka Muslims explored the early Americas. Islam spread across to West Africa (by African traders such as the Fulani people) from as early as the 8 th century by African traders and was firmly established by the 11 th century. The peaceful non-obstructive course Islam took in West Africa was mainly because those propagating the faith were culturally and ethnically identical to those receiving it. Also the indigenous African had many features in common, such as animal immolation, communal pray, celebrating ancestors, circumcision, polygamy, dowry bride gifts, and the spirit or jinn world. The African spirit world of Bori and Zar was bridged to the Islamic world of jinns whom like African spirits could be friend or foe.

 

[Blackking]

@Crakface

Eurocentrism as created the false perception that Arab is a race and that arab = Islam. We buy into most this that come from white minds of the 18th century so we think and repeat any and everything they say. We ignore the black people of that time in Yeman and UAE and even Northern Africa - so that we can call Arab a race.... for obvious reasons.

Or we can look at some other ideas. an opinion on it.........

The primary reason for the success of Islam in Africa, with one exception, consequently stems from the fact that solitary Arabo-Berber Travellers to certain Black kings and notables, who then spread it about them to those under their jurisdiction, promulgated it peacefully, at first... What is to be emphasized here is the peaceful nature of this conversion, regardless of the legend surrounding it.

During the nineteenth century, the East African slave trade grew enormously due to demands by Arabs, Portuguese, and French. Slave traders and raiders moved throughout eastern and central Africa to meet the rising demand for enslaved men, women, and children. Portuguese slaving accounts for a large influx of Siddis to the region 17th century when Portuguese slave traders sold a number of them to Indian princes.

Between conflict and cooperation it is perhaps the single agent creating a boom in Arab activity in Africa.

• Islam is not an Arab cultural invention, but a religion born in a multi-racial Arabia; it was actually perceived as “foreign” by most Arab “tribes.” Islam in Africa is just as old as Islam in Arabia. Islam actually flourishes today because of the legal protection the king of Ethiopia gave it. The ideogical foundation of the 3 Abrahamic faiths is African in origin. It is a denial of African history and agency to deny the significance of Africa in the history and formation of the Islamic faith. It is ony an enslaved mind that rejects its own historical claims allowing others full credit. Later Arab and Turkish dominance lessened this history, but it is an African history.

• Arab is not a racial term, to say Arab is almost like saying American: thus, people classified as Arab today, could have been Caucasian (white people), Jewish, Asiatic or even Arabized Africans.

• Arab slavery did not destroy African sovereignty within its kingdoms. While European slavery ultimately lead to colonizations and hence the collapse of African kingdoms.

The first pitfall of many African academics, especially African-American ones, is to pretend that by knowing about Slavery in the Americas automatically gives them an insight into Slavery in Arabia. The question is of transferred or superimposed experiences. Thus the horrors of being a slave in America and all the dynamics of that system are superimposed onto a world and reality they have no idea about. But simply transference of experiences where Arabs take the place of Europeans is a disastrous academic venture, for the complexities of Slavery in Arabia (place and time being two factors) is radically different, just as generalizations cannot be used to sum up systems of servitude in Africa. A world as complex and ancient as the African-Arab one cannot be navigated from European controlled Universities by a people who live and breathe in a Pax-Americana reality. When we collapse the Islamic and pre-Islamic religions, the surrounding languages, the culture(s), the ethnic diversity, in to one string of unreferenced diatribes we are committing academic heresy.

Arabization and Islamization sometimes were competing objectives, despite having a correlation, they are not synonymous; they are not one and the same thing.

Not one single border in modern Africa was created by Arabs. Arabs generally related to per-existing nation structures in Africa. Or in the case of the Swahili coast limited their conquest to the coast, avoiding the hinterlands.

 

[Blackking]

@Crakface

A popular urban legend which was fuelled by many psuedo-historians was of an 'Arab Invasion of an African Egypt.' Egypt had ceased being African in 700 B.C. with the Persian conquest, and then the Greek (332 BC) and Roman conquest (30 BC). Before the Muslim invasion of Egypt began, the Byzantine Empire had already lost the Levant and its Arab , the Ghassanid Kingdom, to the Muslims. This all left the Byzantine Empire dangerously exposed and vulnerable to the Muslim forces.

Muslim conquered an Egypt that was part of the Byzantine Empire with its capital in Constantinople. However, it had been occupied just a decade before by the Persian Empire under Khosrau II (616 to 629 AD). The so-called invasion by Amir ibn As was assisted by some Copts, who found the Muslims more tolerant than the Byzantines, and of these some turned to Islam.

" The Destruction of Black Civilization (US, Third World Press, 1987, p.207), claimed that: ‘In the Muslim destruction of the Songhay empire, the main centres of learning with all of their precious libraries and original manuscripts were destroyed first.’ -- The question of "what was the religion of Songhay gets skipped to nail home a bigoted distorted history.So such carefulful laid bad scholarship has the role of doing what? Even the biggest Eurocentric racist will not do this type of work. They do damage with omission and emphasis. But how can people be "Muslim" in one instant "Arab" in another with regard to the same event?

Knowledge concerning the Arab trade is not traditionally popular for many reasons when compared to the Transatlantic trade. The biggest reason is that Africans of the Americas (including the Caribbean and Brazil) were not affected directly by this trade. So naturally, people discuss slavery that is most relevant to them. Another reason for the obscurity is that there is also limited factual information on the subject. The period of the Arab trade predates the European system and was far more complex, the racial boundaries we accept today didn’t exist in those times.

Historically it has to be stated that it has never been in the general interest of conquering Arabs, unlike conquering Europeans, to convert anyone to Islam. The casual association between these two factors is not an absolute fact. Creating Muslims out of your slave population would increase their chances of seeking manumission, or appealing for better treatment. An Arab slave trader would be chastized for abusing an enslaved African who became Muslim far more readily than someone viewed as "pagan." This has to be weighted against the reality that converting people to Islam would have brought spiritual benefit. So between these two realities it is clear that there were opposing interest which could swing either way, but not necessarily in favor of the argument of "instant conversion." While in the Atlantic trade, becoming Christian was part of the enslavement process.

Despite all the brother and sisterhood promised in the canon of Islam, it rarely manifest itself in Muslim societies, there is an unimaginable degree of racial segregation.