The UFO/UAP disclosure thread

FlyBoy718

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Can you show even ONE video that demonstrates maneuvers that known aircraft are incapable of executing?

First off, I'll point out that of the 18 incidents that involved "unusual movement", we don't even know how many of those movements are on video and how many are just eyewitness claims. Since the report said that observer error is a possible explanation for the movements, it's clear that not all and perhaps not even most of the 18 have any video supporting the claims at all.

Second, so far four videos have been shared publicly that have been claimed by their proponents to show "unusual movements". This is the BEST evidence that Luis Elizondo and To The Stars has been willing to put forward. But none of them actually show any good evidence of "maneuvers that known aircraft are capable of executing.

GOFAST: Data from the video itself shows that contrary to To The Stars's claims, the object is not moving at high speed:




For the incidents that we actually have video on, there are no indications of "advanced technology" in any of them. So why should I believe claims that there is advanced technology proven in other sightings that we don't even have evidence for, when even the Pentagon's own report, the only evidence we have of these sightings, says itself that there's no proof of advanced technology yet?




They could only definitively explain one sighting because the data they have is so limited and poor, and partly because (as Elizondo himself said repeatedly), the effort they put into investigation was very meager.




First, don't spend more time insulting me than actually laying out evidence. It makes it look like you don't have much of a case and need to fill the space with insults.



That one of the reasons why I don't take this constant drumbeat of "But they can't explain it so it must be aliens!!!" as seriously as some of y'all. When even huge teams of experienced physicists with comprehensive data can miss an explanation for something they've been studying for months, why should I expect some half-assed part-time guys in the Pentagon to perfectly explain something they're barely looking at and have very little data for? It's far more likely that they just haven't worked on it hard enough to come up with the explanation, or don't have enough data cause their information is so limited.




Can you provide evidence of that happening? I haven't seen that one. Though it should be obvious that if there is an aircraft doing that, while quite impressive it certainly wouldn't be "violating the known laws of physics" or be so advanced to be obviously alien if all it's doing is achieving stability in high wind.




Come on now, the Fleye drone had no visible propulsion because the propeller was hidden behind casing and it's a fukking toy.



Most of the sightings that claim "no visible propulsion" are at long distances and shytty resolution. Do you have any high-resolution video of a craft that clearly has no observable propulsion system? Poor visibility or the craft being further away than thought (or parallax where they think it's moving when it's not) could explain that easily.

In terms of technology we do know of, there are quite simple drones that work using air blowers rather than propellers to create a ducted drone and other examples of bladeless drones. There are propelled blimp-body drones where the propellers are much smaller than the body and below a tic-tac shape so would be concealed and not visible from most angles or distances, which also reminds me of some of our odder surveillance drones. Even a simple cylindrical drone like this one, think of how close you would have to get to actually see the propellers. At the distance and resolution of all the videos we've seen, it's just going to look like a hovering cylinder, you would have to get far closer to see the propeller blades.

And as I pointed out, those are all basically toys, not even military grade. The idea that "We can't make a drone where you wouldn't obviously see the propulsion system at a distance!" is just lazy.





I have never said I don't believe in UFOs/UAPs. I obviously do. I'm just frustrated by people who absolutely refuse to accept any explanation other than "This is impossible and must be aliens or Atlantis or technology far beyond anything we know!" without even looking at the evidence.

If you want me to take the alien hypothesis seriously, then show clear evidence of aliens. If you want me to take the Atlantis hypothesis seriously, then show clear evidence of Atlantis. If you want me to take the alternative dimension hypothesis seriously, then show clear evidence of alternative dimensions. If you want me to take the "this is advanced technology 100 to 1000 years ahead of us" hypothesis seriously, then show clear evidence of advanced technology 100 to 1000 years ahead of us.

But I'm going to base all my responses on actual, demonstrable evidence. Not flights of fancy. And until we get that very specific evidence, there is no reason to invent hypotheses that require belief it extraordinarily unlikely or impossible things when normal everyday explanations are still far more likely.



Now I'll ask yet again....if you are convinced I'm wrong, then why not just show the specific evidence? Why do I continue to be the only one putting up videos of very specific events and links to very specific evidence, while other people are still posting random people in interviews with zero evidence or just attacking me over and over?

The videos created by your go-to man Mick West do not serve as explanations for the aforementioned videos. While I found them to be somewhat engaging and well put together, the videos serve as interesting hypotheses, not actual evidence. What evidence do you have that the authorities responsible for this report didn't factor in every single aspect West has mentioned in his debunking videos? Any evidence? I didn't need to hear anything from the To The Stars production to become aware of the speed of the object in the Go Fast video. The sheer speed being displayed by the craft is evident in the pilot's voice and the MULTIPLE witnesses he was in real-time contact with after locking onto it. The government states there are incidents "that may require additional scientific knowledge to successfully collect on, analyze and characterize some of them." Hence the advanced technology references. Is it just a lack of data or is it possible we lack the ability to comprehend the data?
So get off my dikk and call out all the numerous people, INCLUDING Luis Elizondo and Tom DeLonge, who claim that they know these things but haven't revealed the slightest actual evidence to back up their claims.
You should follow your own advice. You lack any evidence of existing military drones that lack propulsion systems. Furthermore, following this logic, the David Fravors of the world are unable to discern the difference between drones and other military aircraft. You began dismissing the validity of UAP phenomena within the third post of this thread. All of your responses are based on hypotheses. Nothing you've suggested has been deemed to be a credible answer to the questions this phenomenon poses. I'm not here to convince you of anything breh. Just trade articles, videos, jokes, and stories with other people who believe in its existence.
 

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The videos created by your go-to man Mick West do not serve as explanations for the aforementioned videos. While I found them to be somewhat engaging and well put together, the videos serve as interesting hypotheses, not actual evidence. What evidence do you have that the authorities responsible for this report didn't factor in every single aspect West has mentioned in his debunking videos? Any evidence?
That's not an argument breh. Mick puts all his information right there. If there's a counter to it, then counter it. What's your evidence that the authorities didn't factor that shyt in and know just as well as Mick does that the object wasn't moving fast?

You're making an "argument from authority" without even knowing what the authorities know or believe about that video. Drop it. Just argue on the evidence we do have - and the evidence from the video itself indisputably shows that the object is not moving fast.




I didn't need to hear anything from the To The Stars production to become aware of the speed of the object in the Go Fast video. The sheer speed being displayed by the craft is evident in the pilot's voice and the MULTIPLE witnesses he was in real-time contact with after locking onto it.
Breh, the "pilot's voice" is not a meaningful counterargument for speed of a distant object in flight. Without reference, pilots misjudge distance and make parallax errors ALL THE TIME. It's part of how the human brain works, we're not designed to judge speed and distance of faraway objects with no external frame of reference. There's literally no possible way for a pilot to judge distance and speed of a faraway object based on visual alone if there's no nearby objects of known speed to compare it to.

There's no justification for saying that the pilot's voice overrides the actual data on the video. The data proves that the object is not moving fast. It's basic math.




You should follow your own advice. You lack any evidence of existing military drones that lack propulsion systems.
Why would I need evidence of this? I've already shown you numerous drones whose propulsion systems are difficult to see at a distance. There is zero evidence of an object moving against wind without a propulsion system, merely objects that are too far away for the propulsion system to be visible.




Furthermore, following this logic, the David Fravors of the world are unable to discern the difference between drones and other military aircraft.
"Argument from Authority" is considered a logical fallacy for a reason - it proves nothing. Everyone, including pilots, makes misjudgments every day. It is 100x more likely that David Fravors misjudged something than that alien beings from a distant star are visiting our military exercises without leaving any meaningful evidence at all. Without additional evidence, Occum's Razor is clearly in play here.




All of your responses are based on hypotheses. Nothing you've suggested has been deemed to be a credible answer to the questions this phenomenon poses. I'm not here to convince you of anything breh. Just trade articles, videos, jokes, and stories with other people who believe in its existence.
Breh, ALL responses in this thread are based on "hypotheses". Luis Elizondo makes video after video about nothing but hypotheses.

And I believe in UAPs. I've made that clear over and over. I just don't believe there's any evidence provided yet that any UAPs are extraterrestrial. Does that mean I'm not allowed to post in the thread? Cause a LOT of other people here say that they don't have evidence UAPs are extraterrestrial either. Even Luis Elizondo has said he has no proof UAPs are extraterrestrial.
 

FlyBoy718

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That's not an argument breh. Mick puts all his information right there. If there's a counter to it, then counter it. What's your evidence that the authorities didn't factor that shyt in and know just as well as Mick does that the object wasn't moving fast?

You're making an "argument from authority" without even knowing what the authorities know or believe about that video. Drop it. Just argue on the evidence we do have - and the evidence from the video itself indisputably shows that the object is not moving fast.





Breh, the "pilot's voice" is not a meaningful counterargument for speed of a distant object in flight. Without reference, pilots misjudge distance and make parallax errors ALL THE TIME. It's part of how the human brain works, we're not designed to judge speed and distance of faraway objects with no external frame of reference. There's literally no possible way for a pilot to judge distance and speed of a faraway object based on visual alone if there's no nearby objects of known speed to compare it to.

There's no justification for saying that the pilot's voice overrides the actual data on the video. The data proves that the object is not moving fast. It's basic math.





Why would I need evidence of this? I've already shown you numerous drones whose propulsion systems are difficult to see at a distance. There is zero evidence of an object moving against wind without a propulsion system, merely objects that are too far away for the propulsion system to be visible.





"Argument from Authority" is considered a logical fallacy for a reason - it proves nothing. Everyone, including pilots, makes misjudgments every day. It is 100x more likely that David Fravors misjudged something than that alien beings from a distant star are visiting our military exercises without leaving any meaningful evidence at all. Without additional evidence, Occum's Razor is clearly in play here.





Breh, ALL responses in this thread are based on "hypotheses". Luis Elizondo makes video after video about nothing but hypotheses.

And I believe in UAPs. I've made that clear over and over. I just don't believe there's any evidence provided yet that any UAPs are extraterrestrial. Does that mean I'm not allowed to post in the thread? Cause a LOT of other people here say that they don't have evidence UAPs are extraterrestrial either. Even Luis Elizondo has said he has no proof UAPs are extraterrestrial.
I don't have any evidence detailing what went into researching these videos. Neither do you. However, I'm not making declarations one way or the other. That's actually my biggest point. So I don't understand the arguing from an authority point because I'm not. The video doesn't indisputably prove anything. Once again, that is a theory Mick West put out there and you're parroting. For argument's sake, let's say Fravors misjudged something. Is it your argument that in the incidents that triggered MULTIPLE sensors that everyone involved was mistaken? If the explanation of this phenomenon was easily dismissed as being caused by parallex errors, why does anyone care to further research it? According to Mick West and yourself as proxy, there shouldn't be anything to investigate. I'm actually curious...being that you don't believe extraterrestrials are responsible for UAP(which for the record I don't necessarily believe they are either), what do think is behind the phenomena? I haven't seen a single post by you that offers a theory that even supports its existence. What evidence have you come across that leads you to believe in UAPS? I'm sure I'm not the only person in this thread who would be intrigued by your thoughts. In essence, I'm pretty sure that's why @AgentMulder created the thread in the first place. Please enlighten us.
 

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I don't have any evidence detailing what went into researching these videos. Neither do you. However, I'm not making declarations one way or the other. That's actually my biggest point. So I don't understand the arguing from an authority point because I'm not. The video doesn't indisputably prove anything. Once again, that is a theory Mick West put out there and you're parroting.
Yes, I agree, it is a "theory". I've never said otherwise.




For argument's sake, let's say Fravors misjudged something. Is it your argument that in the incidents that triggered MULTIPLE sensors that everyone involved was mistaken?
Why would everyone have to "be mistaken"? Do drones and other aircraft not show up on radar and other sensors too? An eyewitness can be mistaken about the specifics of what he saw an aircraft do at a distance yet that aircraft is still going to show up on radar, IR, and other sensors.

The issue is that y'all keep conflating unrelated claims. An object shows up on multiple sensors. An eyewitness claims it moved in an unusual way. That does NOT mean that multiple sensors showed it moving in unusual ways. In every video we've looked at so far, everyone agrees there is a craft there, so that is not in question (at least for those sightings). Thus the "multiple sensors" argument doesn't mean anything unless multiple sensors actually showed the same inexplicable movements, and we have no evidence for that.




If the explanation of this phenomenon was easily dismissed as being caused by parallex errors, why does anyone care to further research it?
You just killed your own argument because the video is 6 years old and Luis Elizondo's entire argument is that the Pentagon hasn't cared to put any further research into it.

No one with any authority took this shyt seriously until 2007, when a Nevada billionaire named Robert Bigelow donated a bunch of money to Senator Harry Reid and Reid singlehandedly got a $24 million UFO investigation into the budget on his request. Most of those millions were kicked back to that Nevada billionaire in obvious political corruption, and he produced absolutely nothing for all that money. (This is the same guy who bought Skinwalker Ranch and continues to build up mystery by producing nothing, the same guy Luis Elizondo vouches for.) Since Luis Elizondo was into UFOs he got to work part-time on the AATIP program even though he didn't have any relevant experience or knowledge, but the program ended in 2012 when Reid's funding ended and he hadn't produced anything of significance.

Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program (Published 2017)

When Elizondo quit the CIA in 2016, he complained that they still weren't taking UFOs seriously despite the existence of these videos. Then he joined up with To The Stars, an entertainment company founded by a rock star who repeatedly pushes the most ridiculous, deluded theories, and they burned through millions on a massive media campaign. Since 2017, virtually everyone who has been pushing this UFO shyt in major media has either been an investor in To The Stars, on the payroll of To The Stars, or is directly responding to the media push coming from To The Stars. And now, five years into that campaign, To The Stars has put out a ton of entertainment videos and goofy cable TV shows and a huge line of branded apparel sales....but this big "report" the Pentagon just released shows they still haven't put any meaningful energy into analyzing the videos.

None of that is a conspiracy theory. All of that information is documented and in the open. There is ZERO evidence that the Pentagon, military, NASA, government, etc. has taken UFOs seriously in the last 20 years.




According to Mick West and yourself as proxy, there shouldn't be anything to investigate. I'm actually curious...being that you don't believe extraterrestrials are responsible for UAP(which for the record I don't necessarily believe they are either), what do think is behind the phenomena? I haven't seen a single post by you that offers a theory that even supports its existence. What evidence have you come across that leads you to believe in UAPS? I'm sure I'm not the only person in this thread who would be intrigued by your thoughts. In essence, I'm pretty sure that's why @AgentMulder created the thread in the first place. Please enlighten us.
I think each sighting stands on its own, there's no "one thing" behind all the sightings. But I've talked about the causes all the time, including in this thread. The Phoenix Lights were a squadron of military planes dropping parachuted flares on a military target site. The recent Honolulu sighting appears pretty clearly to be an LED-lit balloon. Aguadilla sighting was very likely to be a pair of heart-shaped Chinese lanterns released from the place right next to that installation that regularly releases heart-shaped Chinese lanterns.

In terms of the Pentagon report, I don't even know if Phoenix, Honolulu, or Aguadilla were among their 143 incidents. We know so little about the specific incidents studied that it's impossible to attribute causes to them, like I said you need to evaluate each incident on its own merits. But considering the apparent small size of most of the objects, their appearance seemingly primarily in the Pacific Ocean, and the fact that they are most interested in US military exercises, and it seems pretty likely that at least some if not many of the observations are spy drones from foreign adversaries.

Adversary Drones Are Spying On The U.S. And The Pentagon Acts Like They're UFOs

The one thing I disagree with in the above article - the authors claim that the military "appears aloof" to this, but I don't see how they would know that. The military may simply be pretending to be aloof because they don't wish to publicly reveal how much they do and do not know regarding rival spy operations or give away how much they have or haven't been able to detect regarding their capabilities.
 

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Yes, I agree, it is a "theory". I've never said otherwise.





Why would everyone have to "be mistaken"? Do drones and other aircraft not show up on radar and other sensors too? An eyewitness can be mistaken about the specifics of what he saw an aircraft do at a distance yet that aircraft is still going to show up on radar, IR, and other sensors.

The issue is that y'all keep conflating unrelated claims. An object shows up on multiple sensors. An eyewitness claims it moved in an unusual way. That does NOT mean that multiple sensors showed it moving in unusual ways. In every video we've looked at so far, everyone agrees there is a craft there, so that is not in question (at least for those sightings). Thus the "multiple sensors" argument doesn't mean anything unless multiple sensors actually showed the same inexplicable movements, and we have no evidence for that.





You just killed your own argument because the video is 6 years old and Luis Elizondo's entire argument is that the Pentagon hasn't cared to put any further research into it.

No one with any authority took this shyt seriously until 2007, when a Nevada billionaire named Robert Bigelow donated a bunch of money to Senator Harry Reid and Reid singlehandedly got a $24 million UFO investigation into the budget on his request. Most of those millions were kicked back to that Nevada billionaire in obvious political corruption, and he produced absolutely nothing for all that money. (This is the same guy who bought Skinwalker Ranch and continues to build up mystery by producing nothing, the same guy Luis Elizondo vouches for.) Since Luis Elizondo was into UFOs he got to work part-time on the AATIP program even though he didn't have any relevant experience or knowledge, but the program ended in 2012 when Reid's funding ended and he hadn't produced anything of significance.

Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program (Published 2017)

When Elizondo quit the CIA in 2016, he complained that they still weren't taking UFOs seriously despite the existence of these videos. Then he joined up with To The Stars, an entertainment company founded by a rock star who repeatedly pushes the most ridiculous, deluded theories, and they burned through millions on a massive media campaign. Since 2017, virtually everyone who has been pushing this UFO shyt in major media has either been an investor in To The Stars, on the payroll of To The Stars, or is directly responding to the media push coming from To The Stars. And now, five years into that campaign, To The Stars has put out a ton of entertainment videos and goofy cable TV shows and a huge line of branded apparel sales....but this big "report" the Pentagon just released shows they still haven't put any meaningful energy into analyzing the videos.

None of that is a conspiracy theory. All of that information is documented and in the open. There is ZERO evidence that the Pentagon, military, NASA, government, etc. has taken UFOs seriously in the last 20 years.





I think each sighting stands on its own, there's no "one thing" behind all the sightings. But I've talked about the causes all the time, including in this thread. The Phoenix Lights were a squadron of military planes dropping parachuted flares on a military target site. The recent Honolulu sighting appears pretty clearly to be an LED-lit balloon. Aguadilla sighting was very likely to be a pair of heart-shaped Chinese lanterns released from the place right next to that installation that regularly releases heart-shaped Chinese lanterns.

In terms of the Pentagon report, I don't even know if Phoenix, Honolulu, or Aguadilla were among their 143 incidents. We know so little about the specific incidents studied that it's impossible to attribute causes to them, like I said you need to evaluate each incident on its own merits. But considering the apparent small size of most of the objects, their appearance seemingly primarily in the Pacific Ocean, and the fact that they are most interested in US military exercises, and it seems pretty likely that at least some if not many of the observations are spy drones from foreign adversaries.

Adversary Drones Are Spying On The U.S. And The Pentagon Acts Like They're UFOs

The one thing I disagree with in the above article - the authors claim that the military "appears aloof" to this, but I don't see how they would know that. The military may simply be pretending to be aloof because they don't wish to publicly reveal how much they do and do not know regarding rival spy operations or give away how much they have or haven't been able to detect regarding their capabilities.
You keep mentioning Luis Elizondo as a charlatan of sorts but at no point have I suggested he's some sort of authoritative figure on the subject matter. Did I watch his show Unidentified? Absolutely. I enjoyed it quite a bit tbh. But he's quite reserved on the show and that's the extent of my experience with him. The phenomena being discussed is WAY bigger than him. Its been a topic of discussion long before he ever existed. Not to mention I wouldn't be shocked if Presidents aren't fully aware of all the information available regarding these crafts. So in the grand scheme of things, who the hell is Luis Elizondo at the end of the day? Finally, for all of the incidents you've mentioned you have also supplied explanations. Whether your assessments are right or wrong isn't really the point because ultimately I can't identify the "unidentified" aspect in any of those incidents based off the conclusions you've provided, no pun intended.
 

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You keep mentioning Luis Elizondo as a charlatan of sorts but at no point have I suggested he's some sort of authoritative figure on the subject matter. Did I watch his show Unidentified? Absolutely. I enjoyed it quite a bit tbh. But he's quite reserved on the show and that's the extent of my experience with him. The phenomena being discussed is WAY bigger than him. Its been a topic of discussion long before he ever existed. Not to mention I wouldn't be shocked if Presidents aren't fully aware of all the information available regarding these crafts. So in the grand scheme of things, who the hell is Luis Elizondo at the end of the day? Finally, for all of the incidents you've mentioned you have also supplied explanations. Whether your assessments are right or wrong isn't really the point because ultimately I can't identify the "unidentified" aspect in any of those incidents based off the conclusions you've provided, no pun intended.

Luis Elizondo, according to himself as well as the public sequence of events, is the only reason we're talking about this right now. If it hadn't been for the media push that he and To The Stars created, there would be no public discussion, no government report, the government would just be sitting on this shyt just like they had been since 2012.

Now, if you think government response is irrelevant, and if you are willing to ignore all of Elizondo's various and contradicting claims, then it's fair to consider him irrelevant. But if you're pushing the government response as an important part of the evidence, if you say, "The government is taking this seriously therefore that proves something is going on", then Elizondo is vital to that, because he's the only reason we are discussing a government response at all.
 

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It's a confusing picture because you assume it's a single moment in time. The key is where the photographer said he was taking long-exposure shots of the Milky Way. When trying to photograph the Milky Way, photographers set the camera on a still tripod and then take a very long exposure shot. Look at the windows on the house in the pictures and you can tell those aren't normal pictures, the windows are even brighter than the object in the sky, proving the exposure is quite long.

What the picture is showing is a long-exposure of an object with bright lights on the bottom and a blinking red light in the middle. The exposure was long enough for the bright lights to travel across a short bit of sky (making them look elongated rather than single-point) and for the red blinking light to blink 8 times.

What kind of object? I can't tell how far away it is or how large it is, but the pattern looks exactly like a police helicopter with its spotlight on.


UFO extended exposure:
Montello2.JPG



Police helicopter quick exposure:
BuQr0u7.jpg


Only difference is that in the top photo the helicopter is pointing slightly toward the observer (so the tail is partly behind it rather than just on the side) and the exposure is longer so the searchlight blurs a line and the red light blinks 8 times in a row before the shutter closes.




Here's video:





The first couple seconds I timestamped, when the copter is still far away, are virtually the exact same view as in the photos. Imagine a long exposure as the helicopter moves slowly to the left and towards the cameraman so that the taillight is somewhat above and behind the spotlight (I think the helicopter in the photo would have been traveling slower than the helicopter in the video). It would show the extended bright spotlight with the light below and the small red light blinking periodically. It's literally the exact same thing.


Extra evidence #1: The photographer says he heard "engine noise" as it flew overhead - do we really think flying saucers sound like internal combustion engines now?

Extra evidence #2: If you look at the youtube comments someone in the area saw the same thing that night. Their exact description? "Saw it on my way to work on my overnight shift in Kankakee County, IL as I was crossing the river. I thought it was a helicopter because it was following the bends in the river looking for something, but it just didn't look right."


Seems pretty likely that a conversation with the local police or whoever governs flight paths in the area would clear it up. Unless it's a drone, but from the evidence I think it's likely to be a full-sized helicopter.
 
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Nice to see the military is utilizing its massive budget. Nothing about this craft leads me to believe it will be misconstrued as a UAP however.:unimpressed:

If people are misconstruing LED balloons and police helicopters, then they gonna misidentify weird-ass stealth fighters too. :comeon:
 

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I wonder if he's purposely trolling the UFO community. That's an almost perfect demonstration that a commercial jet at a distance with a lot of sun glare perfectly matches the description of a "tic tac UFO".

lol idk I've noticed grifty stuff like this tends to come in bundles though
 
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