The UFO/UAP disclosure thread

[Professor Emeritus]

Logic is out the window if the object is truly alien. You don’t think Aliens would be smart enough to develop a highly sophisticated auto pilot that can match the movements of other crafts?

Applying our understanding of physics on ufos is like a medieval scholar trying to understand quantum computing

I agree logic is out the window in this thread but that's not a good thing.

"Logic is out the window" is a cop-out. Once you stake your position as the illogical one then there's no benefit to further discussion. You're forced to assume aliens first to even make that claim, and then since you've already assumed aliens and assumed that logic is impossible, there's nowhere further to go. Why would a craft make an autopilot that would mimic the motions of the thing chasing it? Aren't you supposed to do the opposite, aren't you supposed to counter the motions of the thing chasing you? It would make zero sense.

The obvious answer is that it was a parallax or autokinetic optical illusion, where the object he was viewing was much further away than he believed it to be and thus he interpreted his own movements as movements of the object against the background. He was primed to be thinking about UFOs cause UFO hysteria had been building for a few days among the crew and this was the result, same as many of the other major sightings have followed the same sort of priming. But y'all don't want to take the obvious answer.

 

[Outlaw]

I agree logic is out the window in this thread but that's not a good thing.

"Logic is out the window" is a cop-out. Once you stake your position as the illogical one then there's no benefit to further discussion. You're forced to assume aliens first to even make that claim, and then since you've already assumed aliens and assumed that logic is impossible, there's nowhere further to go. Why would a craft make an autopilot that would mimic the motions of the thing chasing it? Aren't you supposed to do the opposite, aren't you supposed to counter the motions of the thing chasing you? It would make zero sense.

The obvious answer is that it was a parallax or autokinetic optical illusion, where the object he was viewing was much further away than he believed it to be and thus he interpreted his own movements as movements of the object against the background. He was primed to be thinking about UFOs cause UFO hysteria had been building for a few days among the crew and this was the result, same as many of the other major sightings have followed the same sort of priming. But y'all don't want to take the obvious answer.

The most obvious answer is that there are species more advanced than us out there and they have been observing us for who knows how long.

All these backflip justifications to explain away the obvious is just as much mental masturbation as speculating alien technological capabilities

Do you truly believe that we are the most intelligent or advanced species in the universe?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

The most obvious answer is that there are species more advanced than us out there and they have been observing us for who knows how long.

All these backflip justifications to explain away the obvious is a fools errand.

Do you truly believe we are the most intelligent species in the universe?

I'm not the one making up aliens to explain away the obvious breh.


Your last sentence is another logical fallacy - I've never said we're the most intelligent species in the universe and nothing I've posted in this thread requires that at all.

 

[Outlaw]

I'm not the one making up aliens to explain away the obvious breh.


Your last sentence is another logical fallacy - I've never said we're the most intelligent species in the universe and nothing I've posted in this thread requires that at all.

It’s a simple yes or no question, if we aren’t the most advanced species in the universe then it’s very plausible and actually likely that these phenomena are alien

 

[Professor Emeritus]

It’s a simple yes or no question, if we aren’t the most advanced species in the universe then it’s very plausible and actually likely that these phenomena are alien

No it isn't. That conclusion doesn't follow at all.



Step 1: Somewhere in the vast universe is a more intelligent species than us.

Step 2: That blurry thing I saw right here on Earth is an alien!



Come on now.

 

[Outlaw]

No it isn't. That conclusion doesn't follow at all.



Step 1: Somewhere in the vast universe is a more intelligent species than us.

Step 2: That blurry thing I saw right here on Earth is an alien!



Come on now.

The most advanced military in the world has said they don’t know what these flying objects are. We aren’t talking about Jim bob in the backwoods of Alabama here.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

The most advanced military in the world has said they don’t know what these flying objects are. We aren’t talking about Jim bob in the backwoods of Alabama here.

Y'all are really spinning this "disclosure" disappointment like it was a win.

In reality a minor report put together with almost no resources and minimal effort said that they didn't have definitive explanations for some of the sightings. What you're missing is that that is every day reality. There are unsolved murders all over the country too, if you can't figure out who did it do you assume it was a ghost?

If the government says, "There's too little information to make a conclusion", you think that automatically means, "It was aliens!" as opposed to "It was a blurry video at a distance with too little information to make a conclusion"?



If you're right, and the "most advanced military on Earth" has determined it must be aliens, then why did Luis Elizondo himself say that the most advanced military on Earth was ignoring all this shyt and not taking it seriously at all?

 

[Outlaw]

Y'all are really spinning this "disclosure" disappointment like it was a win.

In reality a minor report put together with almost no resources and minimal effort said that they didn't have definitive explanations for some of the sightings. What you're missing is that that is every day reality. There are unsolved murders all over the country too, if you can't figure out who did it do you assume it was a ghost?

If the government says, "There's too little information to make a conclusion", you think that automatically means, "It was aliens!" as opposed to "It was a blurry video at a distance with too little information to make a conclusion"?



If you're right, and the "most advanced military on Earth" has determined it must be aliens, then why did Luis Elizondo himself say that the most advanced military on Earth was ignoring all this shyt and not taking it seriously at all?

An ant colony doesn’t concern itself with defending itself from humans even though a human could destroy it within minutes.. maybe the government realizes the threat is so huge that we are utterly defenseless if aliens decides to get aggressive so what’s the point in taking it “seriously”?

I liken intelligent extra-terrestrial life to finding the link between quantum mechanics and the theory of relatively or figuring out how gravity. We know the existence is there but our scientific understanding has not caught up to it yet.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

An ant colony doesn’t concern itself with defending itself from humans even though a human could destroy it within minutes.. maybe the government realizes the threat is so huge that we are utterly defenseless if aliens decides to get aggressive so what’s the point in taking it “seriously”?

I liken intelligent extra-terrestrial life to finding the link between quantum mechanics and the theory of relatively or figuring out how gravity. We know the existence is there but our scientific understanding has not caught up to it yet.

Get serious. An ant colony wilds the fukk out when a human threatens it even if it doesn't understand the threat.

Luis Elizondo was CLEARLY saying that the government wasn't taking the threat seriously, and you want to juelz that into "they understood the threat 100% and were so certain about its exact parameters and had already given up."


You want to jump all the way from "we don't know what these videos show" to "we are absolutely certain we know what these videos show and have analyzed the threat so specifically and confidentially that we're going to give up." If the government was certain that these are aliens and certain they understand the exact capabilities of these aliens, then they're lying when they say they don't know what some of the videos show....and thus basing your entire argument on the government claims is a contradiction.

You can't simultaneously be basing your argument on an assumption the government is telling the truth and then so wildly reinterpret the government statement that it becomes a total lie.

 

[Leavingtheecstasy]

What do you mean, "if"? Did you not read those excerpts?

Once again (as he'd done many times before), Elizondo is making broad ridiculous claims without giving any evidence. And of course he doesn't have the evidence - there is an obvious contradiction between the ridiculous things Elizondo is saying and his complaints that the government doesn't take UFOs seriously. If anything he was saying was true then he wouldn't have to complain about the government not paying attention to UFOs...but he expects his fan base to ignore the contradiction. He's the classic modern grifter, dropping out vague hints and stringing you along so you tune in for the next reveal....which will just be something else vague and inconclusive so that you tune in for another reveal to follow.



The AATIP program that Luis Elizondo headed was never serious in the first place, it was just political graft meant to funnel government money to one of Harry Reid's donors. If it was serious, why would they have given all the contracts to the donor (and gotten nothing from him)? If it was serious, why would they have put Elizondo in charge despite him just being a field agent and his only qualification being a UFO enthusiast with zero background in physics, flight, or space? If it was serious, why would they have closed up the program after 3 years once Reid's original funding dried up instead of allocating another funding insertion?


If Elizondo was serious about UFOs, then why did he join up with Tom Delonge, a rock star with a history of making ridiculous UFO statements, and immediately start promoting his media company and line of hip apparel, fictional books, DVDs and cable TV shows? Why build up this "mysterious" image with suspenseful music and vague reveals while never saying anything of substance? When you google "To The Stars", you only get the vaguest claims of "scientific research", the vaguest claims of "craft of extraterrestrial origin", but you're bombarded by brand names, shirts with price tags and links to the "entertainment division". Y'all need to recognize a clear grift when you see it.

What do you believe all of this is then? What human made aircraft can go 6000 G's? Turn on a dime after going 13k miles.

You have stated you think he's a fraud.

But who has this kind of technology? NASA is getting in on this, China is now trying to take this info to the United nations. Elizondo isn't fooling them. There is CLEARLY something, multiple governments are now shifting their focus to this.

 

[Leavingtheecstasy]

This is one of the most obvious tells of an optical illusion. Not necessarily that the object wasn't there, but due to atmospheric conditions and lack of perspective you misinterpret your own relative movements as movements of the object you're looking at (see the parallax effect videos from earlier in the thread and then look up "autokinetic" illusions which are common among pilots). Thus you think you're "chasing" it but it always stays ahead of you, and every time you move the object "mimics" your move.

Think about it logically, it doesn't make any sense for a chased object to mimic the movements of the thing chasing it...but it makes perfect sense if you know how optical illusions work. You know it's an illusion cause you never actually get closer, you never actually catch the object and you're never able to make out the details, you're just perpetually chasing it.

Does that work for multiple pilots seeing it from different angles as well?

I'm pretty sure another came out there later that day and found it again as well

It was also clocked on radar too. So how is it an optical illusion if it was on radar? Maybe I don't understand this illusion you're talking about enough but it seems they have proof that it was an actual object

I mean they have fighter jets. How could they have not caught up to this object? It also slowed down and then dissapeared out of sight. I'm keeping my mind and open and not really taking a hard stance in rejecting anything but I don't see what it could be.

 

[[Something Cool]]

David fravor and the three others flying with him that day has said that all 4 of them have seen it. As far as the public knows this is the most legitimate sighting in modern history. He didn't just get eyes on it, he literally was chasing it down and it would mimic the movements his plane was doing.

Thanks breh, I saw David Fravor's Rogan appearance clips on Youtube and I couldn't recall offhand if he stated if he saw it, or observed it through his instruments. I think it's a credible account as well. I'm in the camp of this is probably some new technology that is being tested on our current tech, so we better hope that it's us doing it. I don't think agencies like DARPA need to tell every agency what it's working on. We're seeing these closer and closer to the West Coast so eventually we may figure it out.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

Does that work for multiple pilots seeing it from different angles as well?

I'm pretty sure another came out there later that day and found it again as well

It was also clocked on radar too. So how is it an optical illusion if it was on radar? Maybe I don't understand this illusion you're talking about enough but it seems they have proof that it was an actual object

I mean they have fighter jets. How could they have not caught up to this object? It also slowed down and then dissapeared out of sight. I'm keeping my mind and open and not really taking a hard stance in rejecting anything but I don't see what it could be.

Thanks breh, I saw David Fravor's Rogan appearance clips on Youtube and I couldn't recall offhand if he stated if he saw it, or observed it through his instruments. I think it's a credible account as well. I'm in the camp of this is probably some new technology that is being tested on our current tech, so we better hope that it's us doing it. I don't think agencies like DARPA need to tell every agency what it's working on. We're seeing these closer and closer to the West Coast so eventually we may figure it out.

Exactly. Yes. Multiple sets of Nimitz pilots saw it. The first 4 pilots saw it, landed, and more pilots were sent, and they were the ones that filmed it.

This is a great video on the entire incident by a great YouTube skeptic that makes videos on mysterious subjects.

6:30-8:05 does a good job illustrating what Fravor saw.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

The most advanced military in the world has said they don’t know what these flying objects are. We aren’t talking about Jim bob in the backwoods of Alabama here.

Totally. At least be skeptical starting off at this point.

There’s no question among anyone in the know that these are real. The question is what they are and who they belong to.

This is one of the most obvious tells of an optical illusion. Not necessarily that the object wasn't there, but due to atmospheric conditions and lack of perspective you misinterpret your own relative movements as movements of the object you're looking at (see the parallax effect videos from earlier in the thread and then look up "autokinetic" illusions which are common among pilots). Thus you think you're "chasing" it but it always stays ahead of you, and every time you move the object "mimics" your move.

Think about it logically, it doesn't make any sense for a chased object to mimic the movements of the thing chasing it...but it makes perfect sense if you know how optical illusions work. You know it's an illusion cause you never actually get closer, you never actually catch the object and you're never able to make out the details, you're just perpetually chasing it.

See, this is where I think you’re reaching man. With all due respect. I’m in the middle. I don’t know what these UFO/UAP things are, but I think it’s pretty obvious by now that there is a there there.

I think this post by you right here is suggesting that you literally don’t think there’s anything at all. I thought we were all operating under the notion that there’s something in the skies, but we have different intuitions on what it is. I’m neutral, and could care less what it is, as long as we find out. I’m very, very curious.

But if you truly think there’s nothing whatsoever to see here, then it seems like you may have another reason for digging your heels in so deep? I know UFO believers are nutty folks, but this almost seems like the flip side of the coin—where you’re just not even a skeptic inside the current paradigm.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

No it isn't. That conclusion doesn't follow at all.



Step 1: Somewhere in the vast universe is a more intelligent species than us.

Step 2: That blurry thing I saw right here on Earth is an alien!



Come on now.

@Outlaw isn’t doing step 2 though. And step 2 is a slight straw man.

I get the impression that this is just a logical extension of taking “pics or it didn’t happen” to the extreme.

Honestky, speaking personally, I don’t care as much about the blurry video (taken miles away from fighter jets that aren’t built for video recording things by the way). What is way more interesting to me is the radar data that corroborates exactly what these elite fighter pilots witnesses, as well as the clear astonishment in their voices. As well as this vehicle jamming their radar. I mean come on. How is a bird or a balloon or a something unimpressive going to jam their radar while they’re engaging it?


I don’t care so much that I’m looking at a blurry dot. These are highly trained professionals that are clearly seeing something wild and it’s being reinforced with radar data, etc.