The UFO/UAP disclosure thread

[Professor Emeritus]

Did you read the part where I was out for a run? Like, strenuous exercise? I don’t even remember if I had my phone on me. I was in gym shorts and a t shirt.

I tell you what, my first instinct was not to film. In hindsight it’s easy for me to say that. But at the time I was so astounded by what I was seeing that my instinct was to just…watch.

I’m not making any claims that I saw an alien man. I’m not sure why you’re coming at me wild here. I’m as a solid a poster as you’ll find on the Coli. I’ve been here since the move from SOHH. I’m sincere, cool to everyone, and I’m definitely not one to troll or fukk with people.

The guy asked me to share my story and I did. I’m telling you what I saw. I’m not saying definitely what it was, because I have no evidence what it was. I can only say it wasn’t some damn Chinese lanterns or swamp gas, and the military was there within 5 minutes or so.

I wasn't accusing you of lying about having a camera, I noted that you didn't have one. I'm pointing out that we constantly hear these stories, which should mean that a certain % should end up captured on camera, yet we never, ever get a clear video on camera. Cause when people actually get clear video, they take a look at it and immediately realize, "Oh, that wasn't what I thought it was."

I agree that you thought you saw what you think you saw. Unfortunately humans, including myself, have proven over and over and over to be unreliable observers. We all make mistakes, even when we're REALLY confident about it. That's why getting evidence from other more reliable sources is important. It is what it is.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

@Rhakim also it wasn’t some massive object. I never said that it was. It was a triangular shaped object, but I never claimed it was the ship from Independence Day.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

I wasn't accusing you of lying about having a camera, I noted that you didn't have one. I'm pointing out that we constantly hear these stories, which should mean that a certain % should end up captured on camera, yet we never, ever get a clear video on camera. Cause when people actually get clear video, they take a look at it and immediately realize, "Oh, that wasn't what I thought it was."

I guess. I believe a lot of these things can be explained. But I also believe that they’re being honest that there are certainly UAPs that they can’t reasonably explain.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I guess. I believe a lot of these things can be explained. But I also believe that they’re being honest that there are certainly UAPs that they can’t reasonably explain.

I would agree - there isn't enough information out there for some sightings so there will always be certain UFOs that can't be explained just like there are murders that can't be solved and history questions that can't be clarified.

Perhaps the issue is that I was trained as a scientist, and in science we start with what we know and only add that which can be conclusively demonstrated. In any experiment, you assume the null case (basically, "none of this has any effect"), and then only move forward with a new conclusion when you can prove it conclusively with data.

It tends to be a more accurate, workable way to evaluate information.

@Rhakim also it wasn’t some massive object. I never said that it was. It was a triangular shaped object, but I never claimed it was the ship from Independence Day.

At night you saw a small triangle-shaped object flying over the beach with an orange light at the end of each point?

It would sound most likely to be a drone, some of which are triangular and many of which have orange lights at the end of each point.

'Invisible UFOs' Fill the Skies | Night Vision UFO Sightings | Live Science

 

[TheDarceKnight]

I would agree - there isn't enough information out there for some sightings so there will always be certain UFOs that can't be explained just like there are murders that can't be solved and history questions that can't be clarified.

Perhaps the issue is that I was trained as a scientist, and in science we start with what we know and only add that which can be conclusively demonstrated. In any experiment, you assume the null case (basically, "none of this has any effect"), and then only move forward with a new conclusion when you can prove it conclusively with data.

It tends to be a more accurate, workable way to evaluate information.






At night you saw a small triangle-shaped object flying over the beach with an orange light at the end of each point?

It would sound most likely to be a drone, some of which are triangular and many of which have orange lights at the end of each point.

'Invisible UFOs' Fill the Skies | Night Vision UFO Sightings | Live Science

I don’t know if it’s on purpose or not, but I can’t help but get the vibe with certain sentences few here snd there like you’re talking to me as if I was 5.

I understand science. That’s why I made no hard claim as to what I saw; I don’t have any evidence to back it.

That drone sure as hell wasn’t it though. It was too big to be that, and what I saw rose up out of the ocean. My speculation (not a hard claim) is that the jets and helicopters flying overhead within 5 minutes weren’t for that little drone thing.

I went to that beach 5 nights a week for over 10 years, and they night is the only night I saw that much military activity in the sky.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I don’t know if it’s on purpose or not, but I can’t help but get the vibe with certain sentences few here snd there like you’re talking to me as if I was 5.

I understand science. That’s why I made no hard claim as to what I saw; I don’t have any evidence to back it.

I do apologize for not speaking very sensitively. Honestly I'm just trying to be direct and accurate. Sometimes I'm a sensitive communicator and sometimes I'm not. Recently I've usually been on the 'not' side, and I should start trying to do better.

I'm not saying you don't understand science. I'm just saying that as someone who literally did science as a profession I seem to have a different way of approaching than most people in this thread. Most people here seem to take unidentified observations and assume something crazy is going on until you can absolutely prove otherwise. I assume something normal is going on until I see strong evidence otherwise. Until now there hasn't been anything that rises to the level of strong evidence.

That drone sure as hell wasn’t it though. It was too big to be that, and what I saw rose up out of the ocean. My speculation (not a hard claim) is that the jets and helicopters flying overhead within 5 minutes weren’t for that little drone thing.

I went to that beach 5 nights a week for over 10 years, and they night is the only night I saw that much military activity in the sky.

I'm just a guy on the internet, I'm not gonna change your mind about your own convictions.

It's almost impossible to judge the size of something when you don't know how far away it is. It's even harder when it's at night, you have no nearby objects of known size to compare it to, and you can't see individual known features on the object. Regular people mistake housecats for cougars even though housecats are 15x smaller than cougars, and that's in the daytime on land with clear points of reference around. At night over the ocean when you can't see any features? It's just really, really tough to judge distance or size, and you need to have one of those certain to be able to reasonably determine the other.

In terms of human memory, we know that all of us have really faulty memories. We have confirmation bias, confabulation, imagination inflation, the DRM paradigm, schematic errors, intrusion errors, and so on, and they all are common issues in everyone. It's hard for any of us to reevaluate memories because it's impossible to know what is a "true" part of the observation and which is a distorted part of the memory. I can't tell you what you saw, i can only throw out ideas about what is possible. We each continuously create our own reality.

 

[getmoney310cpt]

@Rhakim why are you so invested in telling people what they saw or believe they saw can’t be a ufo and just has to have an explanation? Why are you discrediting every post that says “maybe there is something”

you work for federal government?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

@Rhakim why are you so invested in telling people what they saw or believe they saw can’t be a ufo and just has to have an explanation? Why are you discrediting every post that says “maybe there is something”

you work for federal government?

Why would y'all simultaneously claim that the federal government is on its way to disclosing contact with aliens, and then claim I'm working for the federal government to discredit the idea of contact with aliens?

Part of it is that I grew up obsessed with UFOs, bigfoot, loch ness, the paranormal, etc., but then over time the more I read and research the more I realized that a lot of the stories I read didn't really hold together. The other part is that I'm just someone who likes discussing conspiracies. Go look at any flat earth, hebrew israelite, covid, etc. threads, I'm all up in all of those too.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

@Rhakim Just wanted to say that I am indeed very aware that human memory is awful. I journal every day, and one thing I like to do is go back and read events as I journaled them at the time, and then compare with how I describe them now. I actually reported this incident the day after it happened to MUFON, as dumb as that sounds to you, I'm sure. And I also wrote as much down as soon as I got home, because I knew that my memory would alter the events.

This month is the 11 year anniversary, and this morning I actually went back and found my journal from 11 years ago to see the differences. There are definitely a few. My memory on how high the object was has remained pretty consistent. And like you said, and I've said, people are terrible at judging height and distance. But my perception of that has stayed the same. The biggest thing is that NOW I remember the night as being brighter outside than it was. When I go read my old journal and the old MUFON case file, I wrote that it was sort of overcast in the sky, despite it being a half moon. So over the years, my brain has definitely altered the memory to be brighter with more of the moon visible than was actually the case at the time.

I think a big problem with the UFO stuff is that it's got to push back against so many years of inertia as being in there with big foot, crypto-zoology, lizard people, and other really stupid conspiracy theories. I don't believe a single major conspiracy theory. I don't think 9/11 was an inside job, I don't think the moon landing was fake, and I don't even think there was a 2nd shooter on the grassy knoll. These are not like those, though, and our governments are telling us that.

I appreciate that you worked as a scientist. And I know it makes this difficult, because science doesn't work by working backwards from a conclusion. And currently, there aren't really experiments that we can run in order to prove any sort of hypothesis. Short of an ET making contact, or leaving some type of forensic evidence that is undeniably extraterrestrial, then I think we are at a stand-still.

With all of that said, I do think it is incredibly telling that the government is saying they don't know what many UAPs are, and that they are concerned about not having air superiority in our own airspace. We have the best military and most advanced weaponry of any nation on earth, and it's not us. The government is very careful about how they word things, and they are never going to come right out and say aliens exist. The technology they are seeing is well beyond what we know is on our inventory, and the chances that China or Russia has leapfrogged us by that much (without us knowing about it) seems incredibly low to me.

That's all we know. I guess as time goes on we might know more. I do expect the government will trickle out more info, slowly, but for right now, I wouldn't expect to see any hard scientific data on what these UAPs are anytime soon.

 

[KushSkywalker]

@Rhakim All of those maneuvers I was discussing were not conjecture I made up. I got them right from the navy reports and the former head of the UFO program and what he stated. Is he a liar? Maybe... but a lot of the sightings corroborate what he says.

Now feel free to correct me... but from what we know about current propulsion systems, and what we have successfully been able to do, we are nowhere close to a craft like this. It would require multiple extreme innovations/discoveries to arrive at this from where we are currently. I think you are underestimating the gap in technological capability versus anything we know we have or can do. To negate earths gravity with no obvious signs of propulsion or control surfaces on the craft, goes against what we know about aerodynamics and implies a completely different means of propulsion (manipulating gravity around the craft in someway?) This is what I mean by beyond our current understanding. Can we postulate on how it's possible? Sure. But so far nobody can actually explain it. (that we know of)

Regarding the '1000s of years' thing. I have already conceded there is no way to prove how far ahead in tech it is from what we can currently do. It was just a turn of phrase to express how monumental of an accomplishment it would be, and that imo this is beyond a single generational leap in tech. Poor choice of words on my part but I think it conveyed my sentiment.

Also, a less discernable sonic boom, and no sonic boom are two different things. This is an inconsequential detail anyway as it could be removed from the discussion entirely and really doesn't change my argument. The fact remains the vehicles are moving at speeds and pulling off g forces that we don't understand and can't explain. Me mentioning this detail is just to highlight that it's propulsion doesn't appear to be directly correlated with the air around it.

Now every claim I made up there, came straight from the horses mouth. I don't have all the Pentagon videos. I don't know if the guy who ran the UFO program is lying (Luis Elizando). Maybe he is and that could discredit everything he claims. If you have an inclination he is making it up feel free to point me to where you developed that opinion. I am perfectly open to changing mine. Keep in mind the Pentagons own report confirms most of these maneuvers. However, he is the one that said they have evidence of craft pulling these maneuvers off. I didn't pull it out of thin air. He said they have positive lift which goes against everything we know about aerodynamics. He said they pull off extreme g-forces beyond organic survivability. He said they transition between air and water. He said they make maneuvers we can't explain. (such as stopping and turning instantly causing extreme g forces, nearly instantly accelerating, rapidly changing position, transitioning between mediums, evading radar, having no visible control surfaces etc. etc.). He's the one who said they exhausted all the possibilities before throwing their hands up and that that's why it's so compelling and problematic.

I am not saying there is no explanation behind all this. I just think it is much more compelling than you I guess. The fact remains there are confirmed craft in our air space that we do not know the origin of, cannot explain the movement of, and have no clue how they do what they do. That is a fact unless the Pentagon and Luis are lying. Which is possible too.

If we are behind these craft then that is amazing and whatever was discovered and invented to pull it off is monumental. If it wasn't the US then it should be a major concern that another major power has something like this and goes in and out of our airspace with impunity.

You are very dismissive of how big of an accomplishment building something like this would be. Just know I am not some conspiracy theorist. I think I am being pretty reasonable in my critical thinking here. You can find me on here arguing with covid deniers, you can find me on here going in on flat earthers, arguing with religious nuts etc etc. I base all my opinions on available facts and critical thinking. I am one of those most science minded people you will meet. When it comes to this? I haven't even arrived at a conclusion yet. As far as I can tell there is 2 possibilities. Either...we made a large leap in technology in secret, or something else built them.(both are fairly incredible possibilities imo) Again if you have a reasonable 3rd option I am all for it.

Like everyone, I have no idea what these things are. I am really only arguing how incredible it is based off what they've been observed doing.

That said I think I've expressed how I feel on the topic fairly in depth, so if I don't reply don't take it personally. I just don't want to be on here writing titan graphs back n forth all day. I respect your position. Thank you for the discussion.


Sources:

The Government's UFO Report Is Here. Its Findings? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

U.S. Finds No Evidence of Alien Technology in Flying Objects, but Can’t Rule It Out, Either

 

[TheDarceKnight]

@Rhakim All of those maneuvers I was discussing were not conjecture I made up. I got them right from the navy reports and the former head of the UFO program and what he stated. Is he a liar? Maybe... but a lot of the sightings corroborate what he says.

Now feel free to correct me... but from what we know about current propulsion systems, and what we have successfully been able to do, we are nowhere close to a craft like this. It would require multiple extreme innovations/discoveries to arrive at this from where we are currently. I think you are underestimating the gap in technological capability versus anything we know we have or can do. To negate earths gravity with no obvious signs of propulsion or control surfaces on the craft, goes against what we know about aerodynamics and implies a completely different means of propulsion (manipulating gravity around the craft in someway?) This is what I mean by beyond our current understanding. Can we postulate on how it's possible? Sure. But so far nobody can actually explain it. (that we know of)

Regarding the '1000s of years' thing. I have already conceded there is no way to prove how far ahead in tech it is from what we can currently do. It was just a turn of phrase to express how monumental of an accomplishment it would be, and that imo this is beyond a single generational leap in tech. Poor choice of words on my part but I think it conveyed my sentiment.

Also, a less discernable sonic boom, and no sonic boom are two different things. This is an inconsequential detail anyway as it could be removed from the discussion entirely and really doesn't change my argument. The fact remains the vehicles are moving at speeds and pulling off g forces that we don't understand and can't explain. Me mentioning this detail is just to highlight that it's propulsion doesn't appear to be directly correlated with the air around it.

Now every claim I made up there, came straight from the horses mouth. I don't have all the Pentagon videos. I don't know if the guy who ran the UFO program is lying (Luis Elizando). Maybe he is and that could discredit everything he claims. If you have an inclination he is making it up feel free to point me to where you developed that opinion. I am perfectly open to changing mine. Keep in mind the Pentagons own report confirms most of these maneuvers. However, he is the one that said they have evidence of craft pulling these maneuvers off. I didn't pull it out of thin air. He said they have positive lift which goes against everything we know about aerodynamics. He said they pull off extreme g-forces beyond organic survivability. He said they transition between air and water. He said they make maneuvers we can't explain. (such as stopping and turning instantly causing extreme g forces, nearly instantly accelerating, rapidly changing position, transitioning between mediums, evading radar, having no visible control surfaces etc. etc.). He's the one who said they exhausted all the possibilities before throwing their hands up and that that's why it's so compelling and problematic.

I am not saying there is no explanation behind all this. I just think it is much more compelling than you I guess. The fact remains there are confirmed craft in our air space that we do not know the origin of, cannot explain the movement of, and have no clue how they do what they do. That is a fact unless the Pentagon and Luis are lying. Which is possible too.

If we are behind these craft then that is amazing and whatever was discovered and invented to pull it off is monumental. If it wasn't the US then it should be a major concern that another major power has something like this and goes in and out of our airspace with impunity.

You are very dismissive of how big of an accomplishment building something like this would be. Just know I am not some conspiracy theorist. I think I am being pretty reasonable in my critical thinking here. You can find me on here arguing with covid deniers, you can find me on here going in on flat earthers, arguing with religious nuts etc etc. I base all my opinions on available facts and critical thinking. I am one of those most science minded people you will meet. When it comes to this? I haven't even arrived at a conclusion yet. As far as I can tell there is 2 possibilities. Either...we made a large leap in technology in secret, or something else built them.(both are fairly incredible possibilities imo) Again if you have a reasonable 3rd option I am all for it.

Like everyone, I have no idea what these things are. I am really only arguing how incredible it is based off what they've been observed doing.

That said I think I've expressed how I feel on the topic fairly in depth, so if I don't reply don't take it personally. I just don't want to be on here writing titan graphs back n forth all day. I respect your position. Thank you for the discussion.


Sources:

The Government's UFO Report Is Here. Its Findings? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

U.S. Finds No Evidence of Alien Technology in Flying Objects, but Can’t Rule It Out, Either

No doubt. I mean I’m just impressed and curious, because we have the highest trained pilots across decades seeing the same things, and now that our radar technology is becoming so advanced, the military can’t just write off all of these things as weather balloons, swamp gas, etc. There have even been warnings to pilots issued for them to be careful to avoid mid-air collisions with these things. Lieutenant Ryan Graves saw 4 pilots that were flying in tandem and almost had a mid-air collision with one, and he said they looked spooked, and a safety report was filed.

The increased interest and de-stigmatization from the military is what has me interested in the topic more now days.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

@Rhakim All of those maneuvers I was discussing were not conjecture I made up. I got them right from the navy reports and the former head of the UFO program and what he stated. Is he a liar? Maybe... but a lot of the sightings corroborate what he says.

Now feel free to correct me... but from what we know about current propulsion systems, and what we have successfully been able to do, we are nowhere close to a craft like this.

Craft like what? I keep asking, over and over, for the specific videos that demonstrate the specific capabilities that you claim are impossible. Not just vague references to videos in general or "things people said." These are the same people who lied about UFOs before when they were really our own spy planes they didn't want to disclose, the same people who insisted that Saddam had WMDs and posed a threat to America. Give me hard evidence, not just cherry-picked opinions.

Some guy in the defense department claims he doesn't understand something. That doesn't mean that someone else doesn't understand it. They say they don't have any evidence of aliens, they just have some things they don't understand. Unless the things they don't understand are public, then they are pretty meaningless to me. Remember this?

In the early 2000s, the administrations of George W. Bush and Tony Blair asserted that Saddam Hussein's weapons programs were still actively building weapons, and that large stockpiles of WMDs were hidden in Iraq.

On May 30, 2003, Paul Wolfowitz stated in an interview with Vanity Fair magazine that the issue of weapons of mass destruction was the point of greatest agreement among Bush's team among the reasons to remove Saddam Hussein from power. He said, "The truth is that for reasons that have a lot to do with the U.S. government bureaucracy, we settled on the one issue that everyone could agree on, which was weapons of mass destruction as the core reason,

Intelligence shortly before the 2003 invasion of Iraq was heavily used as support arguments in favor of military intervention, with the October 2002 C.I.A. report on Iraqi WMDs considered to be the most reliable one available at that time.[90]

In the buildup to the 2003 war, the New York Times published a number of stories claiming to prove that Iraq possessed WMD. One story in particular, written by Judith Miller, helped persuade the American public that Iraq had WMD: in September 2002 she wrote about an intercepted shipment of aluminum tubes which the NYT said were to be used to develop nuclear material.[84] It is now generally understood that they were not intended (or well suited) for that purpose but rather for artillery rockets.[85]

On May 27, 2003, a secret Defense Intelligence Agency fact-finding mission in Iraq reported unanimously to intelligence officials in Washington that two trailers captured in Iraq by Kurdish troops "had nothing to do with biological weapons." The trailers had been a key part of the argument for the 2003 invasion; Secretary of State Colin Powell had told the United Nations Security Council, "We have firsthand descriptions of biological weapons factories on wheels and on rails. We know what the fermenters look like. We know what the tanks, pumps, compressors and other parts look like." The Pentagon team had been sent to investigate the trailers after the invasion. The team of experts unanimously found "no connection to anything biological"; one of the experts told reporters that they privately called the trailers "the biggest sand toilets in the world." The report was classified, and the next day, the CIA publicly released the assessment of its Washington analysts that the trailers were "mobile biological weapons production." The White House continued to refer to the trailers as mobile biological laboratories throughout the year, and the Pentagon field report remained classified. It is still classified, but a Washington Post report of April 12, 2006, disclosed some of the details of the report. According to the Post:

A spokesman for the DIA asserted that the team's findings were neither ignored nor suppressed, but were incorporated in the work of the Iraqi Survey Group, which led the official search for Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. The survey group's final report in September 2004 – 15 months after the technical report was written – said the trailers were "impractical" for biological weapons production and were "almost certainly intended" for manufacturing hydrogen for weather balloons.[93]

General Tommy Franks was quoted as saying: "I think no one in this country probably was more surprised than I when weapons of mass destruction were not used against our troops as they moved toward Baghdad."[94]

In a speech before the World Affairs Council of Charlotte, NC, on April 7, 2006, President Bush stated that he "fully understood that the intelligence was wrong, and [he was] just as disappointed as everybody else" when U.S. troops failed to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.[89]

That was based off of an incredible amount of intelligence evaluated by a huge # of people and dealing with something we know very well. And even with all that intelligence, they couldn't even tell the difference between a weather balloon project and a WMD factory. In this evaluation they have so little data that they're not even making a conclusion, they're just saying, "Well, the few of us who have looked at this don't know". The resources they devoted to it weren't even serious, hell, if you had any sort of serious program would you put Luis Elizondo in charge? (Not to mention that Elizondo himself claimed the government wasn't taking the stuff seriously.)

If there's any additional evidence of UFOs that's actually good enough to show something, then we'll see when they release it. So far everything released has been ordinary. And my guess is that if more is released then smart people who actually take the time to look at it will look at it and find it ordinary as well.

I respect your position. Thank you for the discussion.

Thanks. And thanks for some of the rest of what you typed too. Just know that I don't take conjecture very seriously until it's backed with evidence, and all I've seen anyone give us so far is conjecture (or often not even actual conjecture but just mere unfamiliarity).

 

[KillerB88]

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

@Rhakim also it wasn’t some massive object. I never said that it was. It was a triangular shaped object, but I never claimed it was the ship from Independence Day.

I saw 3 triangular shaped flying objects while in croatia. It was night and I was on the shore with people. I watched them like wtf is that...they were in a perfect line with each other so I thought it was one craft of some sort moving slow. All of a sudden they darted away in different uncoordinated directions. I was legit like wtf. Did anyone else see that? I realized that most people dont 'waste their time' looking at the skies unless they are specifically out star gazing. These phenomenon probably happen way often than documented because of this. I also am not claiming them to be alien, just that they were unidentifiable and nearly impossible to be 'regular' craft

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

I saw 3 triangular shaped flying objects while in croatia. It was night and I was on the shore with people. I watched them like wtf is that...they were in a perfect line with each other so I thought it was one craft of some sort moving slow. All of a sudden they darted away in different uncoordinated directions. I was legit like wtf. Did anyone else see that? I realized that most people dont 'waste their time' looking at the skies unless they are specifically out star gazing. These phenomenon probably happen way often than documented because of this. I also am not claiming them to be alien, just that they were unidentifiable and nearly impossible to be 'regular' craft

interesting.. but what i don't understand is now that we all have cameras and cameras that can instantly record HD and have the footage uploaded in seconds.. where's the HD footage at??