The tyranny of female hypoagency

Street Knowledge

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See this is exactly the kind of thing that makes me agree with the MRA movement..people have no problem with feminism but when men even talk about organising they are automatically bitter,angry,gay or hate women

This is what I never really understood. What I've noticed is, men aren't really allowed to complain about anything. If a man wants equality, people call him names. While a woman wanting equality is someone to admire and respect.

This is coming from someone who believes alot of these dudes take this shyt WAY to far
 

The Real

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:heh: the way this is all being framed has me wondering whether some salty academics are gonna start teaching Masculism and White History (:dead:) classes at universities soon. as a general rule, idealogical backlash movements are pretty entertaining and if they reach a certain saturation will probably manifest in education somehow (libertarianism, natural design education). should be interesting to see. if yall really want some laughs check out Reddits MRA subsection... classic

They already do. The Men's Rights people have their token academics they try and deploy for credibility, the same way racists have people like Rushton, Jensen, and so on to push their ideas about white people being genetically more intelligent.
 

TLR Is Mental Poison

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See this is exactly the kind of thing that makes me agree with the MRA movement..people have no problem with feminism but when men even talk about organising they are automatically bitter,angry,gay or hate women
Well, feminism was borne out of pretty explicit + obvious gender inequality.

What causes do men need to fight for? How are women oppressing men?

Not to mention, literally every MRA dude I have ever encountered seems to have jumped into the fray due to some emotional stimulus. Reincar with his ex fiancee's abortion, Tommy Sotomayor with his jail time for child support, etc. It seems like every MRA dude has some event (which is often their fault) that kicks them into this "fukk women" deal.

Generally if a man accepts responsibility for his choices he will be straight. If a woman does she still faces inequality. Thats the difference.
 

the mechanic

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Your concern for those issues that uniquely affect men is legitimate. The problem is that the only organizations that are properly addressing issues like male domestic violence and disposability are primarily feminist.
:ld: If they are i must have missed it ..most of the campaigns against these issues are full of misandry..i have yet to see one PSA that shows a male victim,Every sitcom dad is a bumbling idiot ,and please tell me this ad would ever air if the genders were reversed
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mjRU6b4ecw"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mjRU6b4ecw[/ame]


Most MRAs don't do shyt but complain and scapegoat women, further entrenching the primitive gender roles that produce the problems, instead of looking at the actual power imbalances that created and maintain them, which, of course, harm men in many ways.
It could also be argued that they are trying to raise awareness..the beginnings of any movement are always ugly and disorganized

Obviously women are complicit in the reproduction of these gender roles, and even essential to them- it's not a simple matter of dominators vs dominated, but that doesn't mean they have an equal share of the power or capacity to direct them, which is why patriarchy is still an appropriate name for the structure that situates both male and female gender roles.
Patriachy itself is a structure that actually benefits women far more than most people appreciate by placing nearly all the labor ,risk and responsibility on male shoulders.. matriarchy just takes most of the reward and some of the risk and still leaves the male as disposable labor...realistically none of those systems really benefits men...odd how that works.
Anyway, every time I've seen a workshop, a policy change, (such as making alimony gender-neutral, for example,) or a campaign against male domestic violence or male rape, women have always been at the forefront of it.
True ive seen that too..most of these women tho are not feminists at least not the ones im used to seeing
The two options are to take feminism seriously
:whoa: Are we talking about the same feminism that has turned family court into a nightmare for fathers,given false rape accusers immunity from prosecution,virtually destroyed families,removed any integrity from the divorce courts...its hard to take that seriously

- which means dealing with men's issues, too, of course, by questioning the validity of these primitive gender roles that originated in obviously patriarchal, religious cultures, or to go down the MRA path of confusion, scapegoating, and bitterness that wants to reentrench the gender roles but somehow avoid the inevitable negative outcomes.
I agree the MRA movement could use a little less anger and a little more focus but we cant just write them off like that.
 

the mechanic

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Well, feminism was borne out of pretty explicit + obvious gender inequality.
And in the beginning i would fully have supported it.. any man with a mother sister or daughter they cared would want a dignified existence for them but the movement was coopted radicalized and turned into something else..
What causes do men need to fight for? How are women oppressing men?
I didnt say women specifically..i said society,
:ufdup: if you think your equal..just wait till that wife of yours gets sick of you and the family court judge doesnt give a fukk about you.
if you ever have a fight with her and the cops show up guess who gets the free ride in the squad car?
Not to mention, literally every MRA dude I have ever encountered seems to have jumped into the fray due to some emotional stimulus. Reincar with his ex fiancee's abortion, Tommy Sotomayor with his jail time for child support, etc. It seems like every MRA dude has some event (which is often their fault) that kicks them into this "fukk women" deal.
:leostare: Same could be said for any feminist..the trauma of watching their moms abused,their own abuse......
Generally if a man accepts responsibility for his choices he will be straight. If a woman does she still faces inequality. Thats the difference.
I hate generalizing but ...i disagree [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drI1YdbTSx8"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drI1YdbTSx8[/ame]

many men and women do not accept responsibility for their actions but only one group gets a helping hand when they dont....you guess which one.
 

the mechanic

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Lol. This dude is crying about the mistreatment of men. And then has a link in his sig objectifying women. Yea I think its safe to say MRA has some problems.

:manny: Ehh..this is coli breh..

My sig has some pretty girls dancing to african music..i think its an aprreciation for the arts ..

Now if i had some raunchy twerking video you would have a point
 

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Maybe one day you will accept the responsibility of the hypocrisy of downing feminism and objectifying women in the same post

Till then I write you off with the rest of the MRA goofballs.

The only segment in society where men are involuntarily mistreated is in the family court system. You cry about men on TV and ads... how are they any different from women who voluntarily objectify themselves for music videos and shyt? If it was a problem to them they wouldn't do it. And I am at a loss as to where else in society women have this huge upper hand over men. Can you point out some examples?
 

The Real

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:ld: If they are i must have missed it ..most of the campaigns against these issues are full of misandry..i have yet to see one PSA that shows a male victim,Every sitcom dad is a bumbling idiot ,and please tell me this ad would ever air if the genders were reversed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mjRU6b4ecw

They might be full of negative stereotypes against men, but the problem is discerning where they come from, and the answer isn't "women created them." That ad you've shown is a perfect example. It was a Super Bowl ad, which is the biggest male audience of any event year-round. Men are meant to be the audience for that ad. And who produced it? Do you think women are in charge at most ad agencies? The idea that an ad that depicts a nagging, controlling wife is just misandry and nothing else is a curious one, too... I'm not sure how you don't see where that wife stereotype fits in.

It could also be argued that they are trying to raise awareness..the beginnings of any movement are always ugly and disorganized

It could be, but that would be a difficult argument to support, seeing as inchoate anger and bitterness doesn't do much for anyone.

Patriachy itself is a structure that actually benefits women far more than most people appreciate by placing nearly all the labor ,risk and responsibility on male shoulders.. matriarchy just takes most of the reward and some of the risk and still leaves the male as disposable labor...realistically none of those systems really benefits men...odd how that works.

All the labor, risk, and responsibility? This assumes that labor doesn't include domestic work, for one, which is a strange position. It's well documented that more women are primary caretakers for their children, and for non-child relatives, than men are. If that doesn't count as labor and responsibility, I don't know what to tell you, but of course, that cognitive bias itself is male in origin. As for risk- men aren't nearly as at risk for things like rape or domestic violence as women are, so it depends on how you define risk. Men are more likely to die in combat, yes, or be murdered (almost always by other men.) The other point that I find interesting here is that you don't see what labor, risk, and responsibility being taken on by men implies for women- in other words, less actual freedom. It's not as if women are enjoying great autonomy while men are taking on all those burdens. Additionally, among working women, most of them with kids take care of the children in addition to working full time- does that look to you like a society in which men take on most of the burdens?

As for matriarchy- it doesn't exist anywhere in the US, so I'm not sure what you're getting at with that, nor is it the goal of any mass movement, women's rights/feminism included.

True ive seen that too..most of these women tho are not feminists at least not the ones im used to seeing

I'm glad we can agree on this, but I don't know what feminists you're used to seeing. MRAs, like racists, love to use the minority of women who are extremists or believe in female domination or hating men or whatever else as representatives of feminism in general. As someone who has worked closely with womens' rights organizations in the past, I have honestly never met any such people in my life.

:whoa: Are we talking about the same feminism that has turned family court into a nightmare for fathers,given false rape accusers immunity from prosecution,virtually destroyed families,removed any integrity from the divorce courts...its hard to take that seriously

Feminism isn't responsible for those things. That's an absurd suggestion, breh. How can a movement that was meant to destroy the stereotypes about women (like the stereotype that women are naturally caretakers, homemakers) be responsible for increased custody bias against men, which depends on exactly that same stereotype?

As for false rape accusers, here's an estimate of how that looks (drawn from government stats, and then edited to include more false accusers):
rapist_visualization_03.jpg

As you can see, we could double, triple, quadruple, even multiply the number by 10, or even 20... it still wouldn't approach the number of actual rapes. It's not nearly as significant a problem as MRAs want it to be (which is not to say it doesn't happen.)

As for "destroying families," that's a ridiculous assertion. Considering, especially among Black folks, that most children are raised by single mothers and not fathers, I'm not sure how the women can be held responsible for "destroying the family," since they are integral parts of what family units do exist. More generally, though, you'd have to explain how feminism was responsible for whatever "family destruction" you're pointing to. Sounds to me like you've been getting your story on this issue straight from the MRAs, and not from actual history.

I agree the MRA movement could use a little less anger and a little more focus but we cant just write them off like that.

The point isn't to write them off. The point is that the "good" MRAs are already feminists, they just don't realize it yet, and they have no real reason to align themselves with the angry and bitter crowd that make up the majority of the visible movement. I know that you're not a homophobe, for example. The vast majority of MRAs are. Why? Because there's a split in the movement itself, between people who see that the rigid gender roles are the problem, and those who are confused and either hold a contradictory position about them or simply want to re-entrench them further (this latter group makes up the majority.)
 

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:mjpls: a dude who hangs out in gay clubs, supporting MRA, call me shocked
 

Dusty Bake Activate

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if yall really want some laughs check out Reddits MRA subsection... classic

Or this thread.

http://www.the-coli.com/locker-room/10146-quick-lil-gems-dealing-women-thread.html

Not the whole thread. There are people who are just discussing and sharing advice on dealing with women. But it's been dominated by a cult of Reincar types following some Bible-thumping smart-dumb conspiracy theorist whose name I won't mention because it makes him mad like he's some kind of wise guru. :heh:
 

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if you ever have a fight with her and the cops show up guess who gets the free ride in the squad car?

People say this, but I've had the cops called over squabbles with women before and it never happened to me. Of course I never hit a woman. I once had an ex call the cops on me for grabbing her and shoving her away because she was swinging at me. She lied and told the cops I hit her, but they didn't arrest me. They just said somebody should leave.
 

Un-AmericanDreamer

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yes, clearly institutional racism and this issue are not the same. total false equivalency.


:stopitslime:

I think it's very complex matter that you can't compare it to anything else, you're oversimplifying dude. I don't think being a woman and being black are the same. I think women have the resources and the capitol to do something but many are too stuck on critic mode due to hypoagency because that has worked for them. Why buy the milk when you get the cow?
 
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