The Root's thoughts on Paul Kagame

[Thabo]

@Thabo - You're also de-railing this thread. If you wish to discuss the conduct of the Belgians in the Congo, please create your own thread to discuss such matters.

I didn't derail anything, I just responded to some delusional sentiment.

 

[BigMan]

The Congolese used to have a strong national identity compared to other African states like Nigeria or Sudan. That's been fraying in recent years.

Why? To Congo being more nationalist than Nigeria and Sudan and also why is fraying

And do you think Congo should break up ?

 

[The Odum of Ala Igbo]

Why? To Congo being more nationalist than Nigeria and Sudan and also why is fraying

And do you think Congo should break up ?

- Smaller ethnic groups but regional lingua francas. Compare 32 million Igbo, 35 million Yoruba and 40 million Hausa to 10 million Kongo. And not all of the Kongo live in DRC.
- Mobutu's nationalist strategy. Although it was used to shore up his predatory regime, it worked for a time. Up until the 1980s. Although Kasai remained a bit rebellious it doesn't compare to the Nigerian Civil War or the Sudanese Civil Wars. The Katanga secession was a pre Mobutu outlier.
- Began fraying because of the collapse in central govt. People became ethnic again. Also Mobutu played with ethnic politics in the Kivus to retain power. Plus, the Wars....
- I'd prefer the Congo to remain united and practice a form of federalism which alleviates regional anxieties while also providing development and political autonomy.

 

[Frangala]

I wonder if you really believe the BS you just spouted right now. If there are is no tribalism then why are there militia movements all over the place? Blaming Zuma for destabilizing Congo now? There is no unity or nationalism in Congo and there won't be anytime soon, it will be broken up eventually. Lingala is a lingua franca so of course other ethnic groups will know it, same as different Nigerians communicate in English so your point makes no sense.

Militia movements (specifically rebels in the Eastern part of the country are from Rwanda/Uganda) are mostly FOREIGN hence my statement Congo has a problem of foreign aggression with the complicity of its political class. If it's not deaths from foreign influenced rebels in the East, it's state sponsored violence (security forces) but very SELDOM ethnic tribal violence that you find in other parts of the continent. Refrain from talking about things you know nothing about.

Lingala is spoken mostly in the capital Kinshasa and not the official language of the nation. Let me use an analogy for you English is to Nigeria as French is to Congo hence the comparison between Lingala and English is not a valid one (All Nigerians have to speak English as it is the official/administrative/school (academic) language just like all Congolese have to speak French as it is the administrative/official/school (academic) language but not all Congolese have to speak Lingala. Understand?).

The western past of the country close to Kinshasa speaks Lingala, Kikongo and Tshiluba (Kasai provinces) in the central part of the country, Swahili in the Northeast/Southeast of the country (Kivus, Katanga provinces). But you have different ethnic groups who speak languages other than what is predominantly spoken in their large regional blocs making tribalism not much of an issue compared to other African countries.

Zuma and his nephew Khubuluse have mineral rights in the country so they cannot be objective arbiter of the regime in place same as the former President of the AU declared the elections of 2011 fair and free and has not used its bully pulpit to condemn the wrongs in Congo or wrongs in the whole continent basically a useless family who doesn't use their influence for good.

 

[BigMan]

- Smaller ethnic groups but regional lingua francas. Compare 32 million Igbo, 35 million Yoruba and 40 million Hausa to 10 million Kongo. And not all of the Kongo live in DRC.
- Mobutu's nationalist strategy. Although it was used to shore up his predatory regime, it worked for a time. Up until the 1980s. Although Kasai remained a bit rebellious it doesn't compare to the Nigerian Civil War or the Sudanese Civil Wars. The Katanga secession was a pre Mobutu outlier.
- Began fraying because of the collapse in central govt. People became ethnic again. Also Mobutu played with ethnic politics in the Kivus to retain power. Plus, the Wars....
- I'd prefer the Congo to remain united and practice a form of federalism which alleviates regional anxieties while also providing development and political autonomy.

How do you feel about a pan Kongo state

 

[The Odum of Ala Igbo]

How do you feel about a pan Kongo state

All ethnic groups should have a right to political self determination but I think it'd be a bad idea

 

[Thabo]

Militia movements (specifically rebels in the Eastern part of the country are from Rwanda/Uganda) are mostly FOREIGN hence my statement Congo has a problem of foreign aggression with the complicity of its political class. If it's not deaths from foreign influenced rebels in the East, it's state sponsored violence (security forces) but very SELDOM ethnic tribal violence that you find in other parts of the continent. Refrain from talking about things you know nothing about.

Lingala is spoken mostly in the capital Kinshasa and not the official language of the nation. Let me use an analogy for you English is to Nigeria as French is to Congo hence the comparison between Lingala and English is not a valid one (All Nigerians have to speak English as it is the official/administrative/school (academic) language just like all Congolese have to speak French as it is the administrative/official/school (academic) language but not all Congolese have to speak Lingala. Understand?).

The western past of the country close to Kinshasa speaks Lingala, Kikongo and Tshiluba (Kasai provinces) in the central part of the country, Swahili in the Northeast/Southeast of the country (Kivus, Katanga provinces). But you have different ethnic groups who speak languages other than what is predominantly spoken in their large regional blocs making tribalism not much of an issue compared to other African countries.

Zuma and his nephew Khubuluse have mineral rights in the country so they cannot be objective arbiter of the regime in place same as the former President of the AU declared the elections of 2011 fair and free and has not used its bully pulpit to condemn the wrongs in Congo or wrongs in the whole continent basically a useless family who doesn't use their influence for good.

No it isn't most of the Congolese weren't educated enough for French to take hold as a lingua franca of the country. Lingala is the de facto lingua franca of the country not french, you get it Lingala - Wikipedia?
Zuma is simply pursuing what benefits him the most the same as everyone else so you can't hold him accountable.