The Official Street Fighter 6 thread! We Open world fighting now?!

[O.Red]

Random is really just becoming code for this person doesn’t want to let me do my brain dead shyt. Neutral jumps are random because they make grapplers irrelevant in SF6, it’s the same thing.

Perfect parries are fine, if you keep getting blown up by them you’re on autopilot. Plus you already start out with 50% damage reduction. You abuse PP you’re gonna get thrown, internet has turned people into constant whiners.

That's all random means in fighting games

Random=Let me do my shyt uninterrupted. QUIT DOIN SHYT BE STILL

This is just another instance of Punk giving FGC another term to run with based on his crying. Punk is good so when he whines nikkas take it as gospel and apply it to themselves, even though they ain't Punk.

Most of these nikkas don't have their own opinions and couldn't tell you why perfect parry is "random"

 

[HonoredOne]

When Mena get his hands on these nikkas with Blanka the tune shall change.
Ya'll not hiding in the shadows with the character much longer

Blanka Gang is pretty safe for now. Even Mena starting to play JP now

 

[Versa]

Some pros are always going to find something to whine about. Punk would be the one that you mention having the biggest qualms about it and voicing it the loudest as well. Just the same, there are some pros that are liable to be fine with it. I doubt Kakeru hates it. And @Hiei outchea running SnakeEyez off the table. So maybe the divide isn't as far as you think, lol!

As for the PP being so allegedly, risk-free, it's still much more riskier than its SF3 origins and literally five times more difficult to land. Like most new SF games, cats that whine about its system mechanics...I'm like...have you not played the games prior were these systems come from back when they were much more deadly or risk free/less resource intensive, lol?






She may not, but she also has the ability to easily shut it down better than most as well off just one basic button that converts into everything that works well with her. And the whole medal system reliance, would be a problem for her more if she could only gain them off the actual command grab. But considering all her very easy to confirm, basic BnBs also pretty much grants her the medal, it's not the bad deal you seem to be saying it is. Yeah, she can't just command grab for free like that, but in SF games, that's mostly how it always is for grapplers in that just the mental game of having it is at times, more deadly than them actually using it.....that is, until you actually get hit by it as well. Just a month ago, cats was whining to nerf the medal system altogether, LOL!

Funny enough about Punk, he nearly won a tournament recently with Manon, beating out Idom with her no less and also one of his (iDom's) tourney demons in the process and was saying he don't know if all the Manon players bemoaning about her viability was to be believed. FGC is shenanigans in a nutshell.

3S isn't as unanimously loved as you might think, and one of the reasons why is...the parry system lol.

Parry is considered cool because of the Daigo/Justin moment that birthed a whole generation of fighting gamers. Truth is that many people hate it lol. Also, you gotta keep in mind that 3S didn't have a 1 size fits all parry. You had to choose between parrying high or low, where with 6 one parry covers both.

I must repeat that I'm not suggesting PP should be removed, all I'm saying is there should be some type of risk, any, SOMETHING to doing it outside of throw range. Right now there is none, which promotes random play and random, unstable situations. No technique that powerful should be able to be used that care free.

You're good with parry so I'm sure there's probably some bias there, but yeah.

I feel the best show of a character's strength is high level results and Manon is one of the few we're not seeing it from above a local/small time online tournament format. Like, Manon being on the same tier as Blanka is absolutely CRAZY to me LOL.

 

[Khalil's_Black_Excellence]

3S isn't as unanimously loved as you might think, and one of the reasons why is...the parry system lol.

Parry is considered cool because of the Daigo/Justin moment that birthed a whole generation of fighting gamers. Truth is that many people hate it lol. Also, you gotta keep in mind that 3S didn't have a 1 size fits all parry. You had to choose between parrying high or low, where with 6 one parry covers both.

I must repeat that I'm not suggesting PP should be removed, all I'm saying is there should be some type of risk, any, SOMETHING to doing it outside of throw range. Right now there is none, which promotes random play and random, unstable situations. No technique that powerful should be able to be used that care free.

You're good with parry so I'm sure there's probably some bias there, but yeah.

I feel the best show of a character's strength is high level results and Manon is one of the few we're not seeing it from above a local/small time online tournament format. Like, Manon being on the same tier as Blanka is absolutely CRAZY to me LOL.

I never stated that it was as unanimously loved. Just that its inspirations from there to here (namely the parry), was less risky. And it was ultimately even more effective overall (no tells, no damage scaled combos, larger input window and more uses overall).

And nah, believe it or not, my effectiveness of it has little barring on how I feel about it.

 

[Versa]

That's all random means in fighting games

Random=Let me do my shyt uninterrupted. QUIT DOIN SHYT BE STILL

This is just another instance of Punk giving FGC another term to run with based on his crying. Punk is good so when he whines nikkas take it as gospel and apply it to themselves, even though they ain't Punk.

Most of these nikkas don't have their own opinions and couldn't tell you why perfect parry is "random"

You should scroll up, I break down why PP is random. It's not hard to see for anyone who is above average at the game IMO.

You are wrong if you think Punk is the only strong player saying PP needs adjusting btw.

Here's Mago calling what Drive Parry would become 3 months ago



Big Bird





Phenom


Mura


Machoor


I believe players who don't think PP needs any type of changes aren't at a high enough level in the game to understand its safety and randomness.

In your case, I have no idea whether you're good or bad, but you do like whacky, OP characters and mechanics in fighting games, so of course you ain't gonna see issue with it.

 

[O.Red]

They're definitely not fine lol. The way you are referring to them being utilized IE blowing up auto pilot set play stuff is fine! I don't want that to change, nor would it be if recovery time was added, because the true balanced purpose of PP should be just that: shutting down predictable stuff.

The problem is that it's way too powerful a technique for how random, non-committal, and inexpensive it is, to the point where it doesn't just shut down predictable stuff. It also "aw shucks, look what happened here, lol"'s you into advantageous/disadvantageous situations out of nowhere.

If I knock you down with Marisa and drive rush into st fierce and you perfect parry because I'm predictable, that's perfectly fine, but let's say 1 million dollars at Capcom Cup is on the line and you just happen to perfect parry my normal; not because you scouted an autopilot set play on my behalf and shut it down, but because you just happened to press the button unintentionally at the perfect time to PP my standing medium kick, a traditional safe/non-commital poke for the majority of the roster, and had the meter to convert that that into SA3 and win the game.

A pro player is never going to find the above scenario acceptable because it takes away from the skill and adds a random, oftentimes unintentional scenario to the mix.

Gotta keep in mind that many of the things lower level/casual players find to be fun and dope is because it was designed with them in mind and not the actual experts/masters of the craft. Me and @Hiei ran some sets earlier, and while we're both pretty good players, we're nowhere near pro level, yet still I can think of scenarios where one of just happened to "Aw shucks, guess what I did LOL" perfect parry ourselves into a win.

Punk has said from the jump that PP is busted and hates it, many of the best players echo his sentiments. This scenario below is a perfect example of how insanely powerful and game shifting it can be.










I don't think "JUST BE LESS SOLID AND DO RANDOM STUFF" is a good solution to this lol.

That tweet is bullshyt get the fukk outta here you can't get perfect parried, lose the next two interactions and complain about losing because of the parry I fukkin hate fighting game players

I was about to respond to the rest until I realized it was some "Punk knows best" bullshyt

And I know fgc nikkas are allergic to definitions but can you please define solid?

I don't even like perfect parry but some of you nikkas

 

[Batsute]

You should scroll up, I break down why PP is random. It's not hard to see for anyone who is above average at the game IMO.

You are wrong if you think Punk is the only strong player saying PP needs adjusting btw.

Here's Mago calling what Drive Parry would become 3 months ago



Big Bird





Phenom


Mura


Machoor


I believe players who don't think PP needs any type of changes aren't at a high enough level in the game to understand its safety and randomness.

In your case, I have no idea whether you're good or bad, but you do like whacky, OP characters and mechanics in fighting games, so of course you ain't gonna see issue with it.

And all players who abuse high tier characters with insane plus frames

 

[Versa]

That tweet is bullshyt get the fukk outta here you can't get perfect parried, lose the next two interactions and complain about losing because of the parry I fukkin hate fighting players

I was about to respond to the rest until I realized it was some "Punk knows best" bullshyt

And I know fgc nikkas are allergic to definitions but can you please define solid?

I don't even like perfect parry but some of you nikkas

OK, you don't like Perfect Parry. We on the same page then. No need to respond to the rest of my post.

And all players who abuse high tier characters with insane plus frames

PP being overpowered isn't driven by an agenda for players using powerful characters to continue to have free reign. It's just not a well balanced mechanic right now lol.

I love PP'ing someone. It's fun and feels good and it should remain strong despite it needing some tweaks.

 

[Batsute]

OK, you don't like Perfect Parry. We on the same page then. No need to respond to the rest of my post.



PP being overpowered isn't driven by an agenda for players using powerful characters to continue to have free reign. It's just not a well balanced mechanic right now lol.

I love PP'ing someone. It's fun and feels good and it should remain strong despite it needing some tweaks.

How would you fix it

 

[Versa]

How would you fix it

It's tricky because so much of the game's balance is probably based around the technique. The most common suggestion is it having some recovery frames on whiff so there's some actual risk involved. The scary part about that is a character like JP becomes even stronger unless his tools are adjusted, because you rely on parry a LOT in that match up, but JP is already a problem in general so I don't know if that's enough to stop them from going this route. JP is going to get changed regardless.

A softer solution is making parry more expensive to do if you whiff, that way you're in more danger of putting yourself in burnout if you spam it randomly rather than for its intended purpose.

 

[360Waves]

Long post incoming...

Sitting at 1642 MR. Feels good to improve. But I won't lie to you, this game is actually kinda ass. The honey moon period is over and a lot of pros seem to be waking up.

The input reader in this game is horrific. It stores inputs for too long and you misinput often. It also seems to weirdly drop inputs often, especially during screen freezes. There are instances of a buffered medium DP becoming a a standing MP due to DR screen freeze, I've gone back and watched replays to confirm. You literally cannot jump if your opponent does a close range DR. I watched a replay where I held up from 1 frame before DR all the way through the full startup and my character remained glued to the ground

I haven't heard many people talk about this, but there's also a lot of weirdness with blocking. Lost count of how many times I've been clipped by a low forward while clearly holding downback. Just saw a clip on Twitter today of someone getting hit by Kim's overhead even though they had moved from crouch to stand block on time (slow-mo replay to confirm it.) All kinds of weird shyt. This seems to be the number 1 complaint from pros as well.

I'm not gonna delve into all the system mechanics like DI, DR, Perfect Parry. I see a lot of pros complaining about that shyt. I think there're a variety of ways to fix them or make them more balanced without disrupting the game economy by changing cost (such as extending hurtboxes on DR to make it more easily checkable, or making a checked DR an automatic punish counter). I'll assume Capcom is clever enough to know this.

But imo my biggest problem with this game is just the general meta. This game feels way too reactionary. Everything is a jumpscare reaction test. It makes it extremely stressful to play. You're already thinking about jump-ins, dashes, strikes, whiff punishes, fireballs, etc. But now you also have to worry about drive rush and di. On top of the fact that the majority of the cast also has jump scare neutral skipping moves (dragon lash, Kimberley and Rashid each have like 5 diff ones, etc.) Feels like Capcom heavily tailored the design of this game around the highest level of play, where every players reactions are godlike. But the consequence of that is that it just makes it generally unfun for the other 95% of mortals out there. Even high level players, are consistently failing to react to a lot of shyt in this game.

It also punishes you for playing defensively. Blocking eats drive gauge. Drive Reversal costs 3 fukking bars and is garbage as shyt--often ending with me getting blown up for a big damage combo. Throwing out pre-emptive keep away pokes can get you blown up by DI. I'm a defensive, whiff-punish heavy kind of player but that style of play is dead in the water in this game. Many players absolutely refuse to press buttons in space (which would open them up for a whiff punish) because there are too many safer tools to get in on your opponent without having to risk yourself to a counter hit, such as DR, which also grants them plus fukking frames for a mix. Capcom added all these extra startup and recovery frames to moves to encourage more footsies and no one actually plays fukking footsies, because the system mechanics don't incentivize you to do so.

The game is also very fukking random. I think Capcom thought that having a wealth of options through 93290230942 different mechanics would make the game more hype and fun but in reality it just makes it extremely fukking random. The mental stack is too high and there's too many different ways to approach things. You combine this with the fact that most moves are negative without resources and the game basically turns into a mashfest. People mashing out of strings, mashing for perfect parry when they mistime their jabs and you try to counter punch, mashing DI, mashing super. Infinites in burnout. The game lacks an ebb and flow and is just way too chaotic and volatile.

I'd give vanilla SF6 a 7/10. Purely from a competitive standpoint. As an all around videogame it's closer to a 9 or 10. It can easily be the best competitive FG ever with some tweaks though.

 

[Versa]

Long post incoming...

Sitting at 1642 MR. Feels good to improve. But I won't lie to you, this game is actually kinda ass. The honey moon period is over and a lot of pros seem to be waking up.

The input reader in this game is horrific. It stores inputs for too long and you misinput often. It also seems to weirdly drop inputs often, especially during screen freezes. There are instances of a buffered medium DP becoming a a standing MP due to DR screen freeze, I've gone back and watched replays to confirm. You literally cannot jump if your opponent does a close range DR. I watched a replay where I held up from 1 frame before DR all the way through the full startup and my character remained glued to the ground

I haven't heard many people talk about this, but there's also a lot of weirdness with blocking. Lost count of how many times I've been clipped by a low forward while clearly holding downback. Just saw a clip on Twitter today of someone getting hit by Kim's overhead even though they had moved from crouch to stand block on time (slow-mo replay to confirm it.) All kinds of weird shyt. This seems to be the number 1 complaint from pros as well.

I'm not gonna delve into all the system mechanics like DI, DR, Perfect Parry. I see a lot of pros complaining about that shyt. I think there're a variety of ways to fix them or make them more balanced without disrupting the game economy by changing cost (such as extending hurtboxes on DR to make it more easily checkable, or making a checked DR an automatic punish counter). I'll assume Capcom is clever enough to know this.

But imo my biggest problem with this game is just the general meta. This game feels way too reactionary. Everything is a jumpscare reaction test. It makes it extremely stressful to play. You're already thinking about jump-ins, dashes, strikes, whiff punishes, fireballs, etc. But now you also have to worry about drive rush and di. On top of the fact that the majority of the cast also has jump scare neutral skipping moves (dragon lash, Kimberley and Rashid each have like 5 diff ones, etc.) Feels like Capcom heavily tailored the design of this game around the highest level of play, where every players reactions are godlike. But the consequence of that is that it just makes it generally unfun for the other 95% of mortals out there. Even high level players, are consistently failing to react to a lot of shyt in this game.

It also punishes you for playing defensively. Blocking eats drive gauge. Drive Reversal costs 3 fukking bars and is garbage as shyt--often ending with me getting blown up for a big damage combo. Throwing out pre-emptive keep away pokes can get you blown up by DI. I'm a defensive, whiff-punish heavy kind of player but that style of play is dead in the water in this game. Many players absolutely refuse to press buttons in space (which would open them up for a whiff punish) because there are too many safer tools to get in on your opponent without having to risk yourself to a counter hit, such as DR, which also grants them plus fukking frames for a mix. Capcom added all these extra startup and recovery frames to moves to encourage more footsies and no one actually plays fukking footsies, because the system mechanics don't incentivize you to do so.

The game is also very fukking random. I think Capcom thought that having a wealth of options through 93290230942 different mechanics would make the game more hype and fun but in reality it just makes it extremely fukking random. The mental stack is too high and there's too many different ways to approach things. You combine this with the fact that most moves are negative without resources and the game basically turns into a mashfest. People mashing out of strings, mashing for perfect parry when they mistime their jabs and you try to counter punch, mashing DI, mashing super. Infinites in burnout. The game lacks an ebb and flow and is just way too chaotic and volatile.

I'd give vanilla SF6 a 7/10. Purely from a competitive standpoint. As an all around videogame it's closer to a 9 or 10. It can easily be the best competitive FG ever with some tweaks though.

You're preaching right now tbh, and I LOVE the game. It just ain't perfect, nor should anyone expect it to be on first try.

 

[Batsute]

 

[The G.O.D II]

Yea the clipping and getting caught with overheads when you clearly holding the correct stance to block is not fun

 

[Khalil's_Black_Excellence]

It's tricky because so much of the game's balance is probably based around the technique. The most common suggestion is it having some recovery frames on whiff so there's some actual risk involved. The scary part about that is a character like JP becomes even stronger unless his tools are adjusted, because you rely on parry a LOT in that match up, but JP is already a problem in general so I don't know if that's enough to stop them from going this route. JP is going to get changed regardless.

A softer solution is making parry more expensive to do if you whiff, that way you're in more danger of putting yourself in burnout if you spam it randomly rather than for its intended purpose.

EHhh...I don't think it needs to be any more expensive really, as it takes about half a bar just to initiate. You could maybe increase the speed that it depletes once held if it's not taking any hits. As is tho, it goes down at a decent rate when that happens. I suppose it could cost a full bar to initiate, but Ionno about that either. If that would be the case, if you do it once you have anything less than a complete bar, you'd instantly go into burnout if you don't get a Perfect Parry pretty much. That pretty much happens almost as is tho, which is why in most cases, folks aren't attempting to parry at all once they reach 1 bar of drive anyway. As you pointed out, that'd make characters with tools like JP that much more oppressive on offense. Add also Blanka, Guile, Juri, Rashid...basically anyone that have super strong, level 2 supers, lol.

It's funny that after 4.5 years of cats complaining about V not having enough defensive options, cats almost right out the gate are now contesting one of the stronger ones in VI. FGC is never happy.