Don't think it's that far off. America has a very unique outlook on class
Don't think it's that far off. America has a very unique outlook on class
Sorry breh but you're completely off base. I was born in Moscow and my family has gone through Lenin, Stalin, and the rest of the Communists. Russia in no way, shape, or form "wasn't a bad place to be". The government held all of the power and was corrupt. The general public lived well below the means of the country. Every single Russian I talk to now, loves that the country went capitalist. There's no such thing as the glory days for the common person in post-Stalin Russia.
I don't understand why people cant just say that the Soviet Union or Cuba are failed states. It doesn't mean everything they did is bad, but there was a lot of fukked up, autocratic bullshyt. The public elites replaced the private elites. This is the socialism you want to defend?
You think Fidel or Raul Castro is living like some worker? You think Stalin lived like his factory workers?
Please stop.
I mean, what is a "failed state?"
Both the Soviet Union and Cuba made some gains and achieved some accomplishments. But, on the whole, the working class is not liberated in either. There was/is no worker ownership or control of the means of production. So, when it comes to socialism, they are failures... but also valuable learning experiences. It's only through struggle that the working class and oppressed people can uncover the path forward
I do agree with the sentiment of your post, but I don't think we need to acquiesce to the Right and throw under the bus these historical experiences and whatever accomplishments accompanied them.
That's what I was saying. Eat the meat and spit out the bone (no homo on both counts).
But when I hear Socialists or Communists praise Cuba or the Soviet Union as if they were/are some bastion of freedom for the working class I can't help but roll my fukking eyes back into my brain. It's such naive and wishful thinking.
Capitalists always build the strawman..."well look at soviet russia, china..." when talking about failed socialist ideologies.Cuba's predicament was a self fulfilling prophecy thanks to US human rights violations.
Capitalists always build the strawman..."well look at soviet russia, china..." when talking about failed socialist ideologies.
They fail to recognize the impact capitalism and geopolitcs played in the development in those countries. Furhermore...they were certainly led by interesting characters that unfortunately took advantage of said system...much like how we view our capitalist overlords.
I for one would like to see a socialist regime lead by someone altruistic take the reigns for a while...a soft deployment if you will...wont happen tho
I mean, what is a "failed state?"
Both the Soviet Union and Cuba made some gains and achieved some accomplishments. But, on the whole, the working class is not liberated in either. There was/is no worker ownership or control of the means of production. So, when it comes to socialism, they are failures... but also valuable learning experiences. It's only through struggle that the working class and oppressed people can uncover the path forward
I do agree with the sentiment of your post, but I don't think we need to acquiesce to the Right and throw under the bus these historical experiences and whatever accomplishments accompanied them.
The International Workingmen's Association 1864
Address of the International Working Men's Association to Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States of America
Presented to U.S. Ambassador Charles Francis Adams
January 28, 1865 [A]
Written: by Marx between November 22 & 29, 1864
First Published: The Bee-Hive Newspaper, No. 169, November 7, 1865;
Transcription/Markup: Zodiac/Brian Baggins;
Online Version: Marx & Engels Internet Archive (marxists.org) 2000.
Sir:
We congratulate the American people upon your re-election by a large majority. If resistance to the Slave Power was the reserved watchword of your first election, the triumphant war cry of your re-election is Death to Slavery.
From the commencement of the titanic American strife the workingmen of Europe felt instinctively that the star-spangled banner carried the destiny of their class. The contest for the territories which opened the dire epopee, was it not to decide whether the virgin soil of immense tracts should be wedded to the labor of the emigrant or prostituted by the tramp of the slave driver?
When an oligarchy of 300,000 slaveholders dared to inscribe, for the first time in the annals of the world, "slavery" on the banner of Armed Revolt, when on the very spots where hardly a century ago the idea of one great Democratic Republic had first sprung up, whence the first Declaration of the Rights of Man was issued, and the first impulse given to the European revolution of the eighteenth century; when on those very spots counterrevolution, with systematic thoroughness, gloried in rescinding "the ideas entertained at the time of the formation of the old constitution", and maintained slavery to be "a beneficent institution", indeed, the old solution of the great problem of "the relation of capital to labor", and cynically proclaimed property in man "the cornerstone of the new edifice" — then the working classes of Europe understood at once, even before the fanatic partisanship of the upper classes for the Confederate gentry had given its dismal warning, that the slaveholders' rebellion was to sound the tocsin for a general holy crusade of property against labor, and that for the men of labor, with their hopes for the future, even their past conquests were at stake in that tremendous conflict on the other side of the Atlantic. Everywhere they bore therefore patiently the hardships imposed upon them by the cotton crisis, opposed enthusiastically the proslavery intervention of their betters — and, from most parts of Europe, contributed their quota of blood to the good cause.
While the workingmen, the true political powers of the North, allowed slavery to defile their own republic, while before the Negro, mastered and sold without his concurrence, they boasted it the highest prerogative of the white-skinned laborer to sell himself and choose his own master, they were unable to attain the true freedom of labor, or to support their European brethren in their struggle for emancipation; but this barrier to progress has been swept off by the red sea of civil war.
The workingmen of Europe feel sure that, as the American War of Independence initiated a new era of ascendancy for the middle class, so the American Antislavery War will do for the working classes. They consider it an earnest of the epoch to come that it fell to the lot of Abraham Lincoln, the single-minded son of the working class, to lead his country through the matchless struggle for the rescue of an enchained race and the reconstruction of a social world. https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/iwma/documents/1864/lincoln-letter.htm#b
Signed on behalf of the International Workingmen's Association, the Central Council:
Longmaid, Worley, Whitlock, Fox, Blackmore, Hartwell, Pidgeon, Lucraft, Weston, Dell, Nieass, Shaw, Lake, Buckley, Osbourne, Howell, Carter, Wheeler, Stainsby, Morgan, Grossmith, dikk, Denoual, Jourdain, Morrissot, Leroux, Bordage, Bocquet, Talandier, Dupont, L.Wolff, Aldovrandi, Lama, Solustri, Nusperli, Eccarius, Wolff, Lessner, Pfander, Lochner, Kaub, Bolleter, Rybczinski, Hansen, Schantzenbach, Smales, Cornelius, Petersen, Otto, Bagnagatti, Setacci;
George Odger, President of the Council; P.V. Lubez, Corresponding Secretary for France; Karl Marx, Corresponding Secretary for Germany; G.P. Fontana, Corresponding Secretary for Italy; J.E. Holtorp, Corresponding Secretary for Poland; H.F. Jung, Corresponding Secretary for Switzerland; William R. Cremer, Honorary General Secretary.
18 Greek Street, Soho.
[A] From the minutes of the Central (General) Council of the International — November 19, 1864:
"Dr. Marx then brought up the report of the subcommittee, also a draft of the address which had been drawn up for presentation to the people of America congratulating them on their having re-elected Abraham Lincoln as President. The address is as follows and was unanimously agreed to."
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/iwma/documents/1864/lincoln-letter.htm#bb The minutes of the meeting continue:
"A long discussion then took place as to the mode of presenting the address and the propriety of having a M.P. with the deputation; this was strongly opposed by many members, who said workingmen should rely on themselves and not seek for extraneous aid.... It was then proposed... and carried unanimously. The secretary correspond with the United States Minister asking to appoint a time for receiving the deputation, such deputation to consist of the members of the Central Council."
Ambassador Adams Replies
Legation of the United States
London, 28th January, 1865
Sir:
I am directed to inform you that the address of the Central Council of your Association, which was duly transmitted through this Legation to the President of the United [States], has been received by him.
So far as the sentiments expressed by it are personal, they are accepted by him with a sincere and anxious desire that he may be able to prove himself not unworthy of the confidence which has been recently extended to him by his fellow citizens and by so many of the friends of humanity and progress throughout the world.
The Government of the United States has a clear consciousness that its policy neither is nor could be reactionary, but at the same time it adheres to the course which it adopted at the beginning, of abstaining everywhere from propagandism and unlawful intervention. It strives to do equal and exact justice to all states and to all men and it relies upon the beneficial results of that effort for support at home and for respect and good will throughout the world.
Nations do not exist for themselves alone, but to promote the welfare and happiness of mankind by benevolent intercourse and example. It is in this relation that the United States regard their cause in the present conflict with slavery, maintaining insurgence as the cause of human nature, and they derive new encouragements to persevere from the testimony of the workingmen of Europe that the national attitude is favored with their enlightened approval and earnest sympathies.
I have the honor to be, sir, your obedient servant,
Charles Francis Adams