The Official Israel-Gaza Thread

[NZA]

It's for discussion. What does the left actually stand for?

At what point does supporting Palestine mean endorsing Hamas by proxy? I'm seriously asking.

Look , I'll keep it a stack with you. I dont know why people care so much about Palestinians. I agree they need their own homeland or a better settlement, but defending them when they're as far right as most muslim societies limits my natural affinity to their cause. Plus, the more I see and learn the less I just openly support EVERY liberation struggle like that.

For example, Azerbaijan just shytted on Armenia last week...CRICKETS. NOTHING. No one said shyt.

I'm not religious either so the idea of an Israeli state isn't motivating me either. I think Israel is an advanced country with a lot of progressive elements in it and its certainly one of the only places in the area I'd like to visit next to Lebanon purely on culture, location, and how the society is run...but theres obviously some right wing elements there that complicate things in both countries.

...I'm also a black man. So I'm asking you, as a function of someone who considers themselves left of center, open minded, and likes social liberalism where would you rather be? Theres going to be racism everywhere it seems so I might as well be some place that seems more tolerant towards me.

...palestinians are far-right, how could the left support them?

also...

why worry about AZOV, svoboda, right sector, national corps, and the neo-nazi russian volunteer corps? they are fighting for freedom from tyranny!

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

...palestinians are far-right, how could the left support them?

also...

why worry about AZOV, svoboda, right sector, national corps, and the neo-nazi russian volunteer corps? they are fighting for freedom from tyranny!

Azov is a small segment of a Ukrainian military with a jewish president and a muslim defense secretary being invaded by a literal right wing dictator. Look, if the USA was invaded you'd have Three-Percenters, Proud Boys, and other militias on the front lines. Thats what we're talking about here. Plus, Ukraine is the largest country in Europe-proper and has a longer history of facing off against imperialists and has more autonomy to fight back. Plus sometimes, the enemy is easier to oppose, in Putin.

Look, I already laid out my ideal...give them an actual country not some fukking zoo cage...but beyond that, I'm not seeing why defending HAMAS is where "the left" needs to be tip toeing around.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I don't understand what's happening in this clip.

a drone is threading a needle of dropping munitions off on gun turrents

just unreal coordination

 

[NZA]

Azov is a small segment of a Ukrainian military with a jewish president and a muslim defense secretary being invaded by a literal right wing dictator. Look, if the USA was invaded you'd have Three-Percenters, Proud Boys, and other militias on the front lines. Thats what we're talking about here. Plus, Ukraine is the largest country in Europe-proper and has a longer history of facing off against imperialists and has more autonomy to fight back. Plus sometimes, the enemy is easier to oppose, in Putin.

Look, I already laid out my ideal...give them an actual country not some fukking zoo cage...but beyond that, I'm not seeing why defending HAMAS is where "the left" needs to be tip toeing around.

yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever, fukker

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

reminds me of this:

CBS News reporter apologises for saying Ukraine is more ‘civilised’ than Afghanistan

‘I used a poor choice of words,’ said reporter Chris D’Agata

www.independent.co.uk

Charlie D’Agata was reporting from Kyiv, Ukraine on Friday (25 February) when he told viewers that Ukraine “isn’t a place, with all due respect, like Iraq or Afghanistan that has seen conflict raging for decades”.


He continued: “This is a relatively civilised, relatively European – I have to choose those words carefully, too – city, where you wouldn’t expect that or hope that it’s going to happen.”

...what'd you expect?

Yeah, it's fukked up but people in war pick sides.

I dont like Putin and Russia has been doing tons of nefarious shyt against the West for ages and nows the time to check that, regardless of how messy it gets.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever, fukker

You don't have an answer to that, do you?

The Wagner group is a LITERAL nazi outfit.

 

[NZA]

see how nap was acting in the ukraine thread and then compare it to this. something isnt right with our breh...

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

see how nap was acting in the ukraine thread and then compare it to this. something isnt right with our breh...

I want Putin gone. I want Hamas to stop fukking up the Palestinian cause and I want Israel to work something out with Egypt to end this Palestinian issue.

 

[Squirrel from Meteor Man]

It's for discussion. What does the left actually stand for?

At what point does supporting Palestine mean endorsing Hamas by proxy? I'm seriously asking.

Look , I'll keep it a stack with you. I dont know why people care so much about Palestinians. I agree they need their own homeland or a better settlement, but defending them when they're as far right as most muslim societies limits my natural affinity to their cause. Plus, the more I see and learn the less I just openly support EVERY liberation struggle like that.

For example, Azerbaijan just shytted on Armenia last week...CRICKETS. NOTHING. No one said shyt.

I'm not religious either so the idea of an Israeli state isn't motivating me either. I think Israel is an advanced country with a lot of progressive elements in it and its certainly one of the only places in the area I'd like to visit next to Lebanon purely on culture, location, and how the society is run...but theres obviously some right wing elements there that complicate things in both countries.

...I'm also a black man. So I'm asking you, as a function of someone who considers themselves left of center, open minded, and likes social liberalism where would you rather be? Theres going to be racism everywhere it seems so I might as well be some place that seems more tolerant towards me.

When Trump was President, did you stop supporting America?

A long existing country and its people have a right to live on their own terms. I’m not a fan of apartheid or oppression. Especially when it’s based on a person’s color and social status.

Because a country doesn’t have ideological views you support you think they shouldn’t exist or, at the very least, be free to live as they choose? How is that progressive in any sense of the word?

“Hey, I support your freedom of speech as long as I like what you’re saying.” See how silly that sounds?

When their children are jailed, kidnapped, and killed, because they have a “far right society” they don’t deserve sympathy?

Israel isn’t tolerant towards black people, and it damn sure isn’t what I’d call progressive:

 

[Mister Terrific]

Jesus Christ y’all post the dumbest shyt.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

When Trump was President, did you stop supporting America?

A long existing country and its people have a right to live on their own terms. I’m not a fan of apartheid or oppression. Especially when it’s based on a person’s color and social status.

You can take an L thats hard to come back from.

Stuff like this indicates that MANY of you all don't know soviet history. They moved DOZENS of ethnic groups around their empire and many westerners are completely ignorant of this. Look, it happens and not all groups have the same clout or legitimacy or leverage to fight back or change the facts on the ground.

Population transfer in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Palestinians got used as pawns by the Arab world and basically are living with an L they can't really use to their advantage.

Because a country doesn’t have ideological views you support you think they shouldn’t exist or, at the very least, be free to live as they choose? How is that progressive in any sense of the word?

Define "exist"

Theres countries with differing levels of legitimacy for their indigenous groups between the Russians, Canadians, Australians, Mexicans, and Americans...even in Asian.

Be specific.

Again, different groups come to the table with different asks and leverage. Timing matters and emotional appeals carry different weight.

“Hey, I support your freedom of speech as long as I like what you’re saying.” See how silly that sounds?

This isn't the topic.

When their children are jailed, kidnapped, and killed, because they have a “far right society” they don’t deserve sympathy?

did I say this?

Palestinians are treated like absolute dogs by the Israeli military.

A future Palestine would make women wear headscarves. Do you know how much this truly revolts me? I'm not a fan of conservative islamist societies. At all.

Israel isn’t tolerant towards black people, and it damn sure isn’t what I’d call progressive:

Theres black Israelis but yes, again Israel has tepid relations with African jews....but to say theres no africans in Israel that aren't integrated or apart of society is incorrect.

...But then people running to defend Palestine go overboard as if thats a black struggle and I'm like...ehhhhh. Solidarity against your oppressor? Sure... is that going to help black people when Palestine becomes a reality? I dont know.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Clearly something like this involves risks. I’m sure there will also be ppl on his side who will say it was the intel agencies who did this in the hopes that it drives him from power. The domestic/judicial crisis he’s been dealing with has him at odds with many in the military/security establishment.

I just cannot being myself to believe that the Israelis would be caught completely unaware of an operation this big and coordinated, involving so many people. Their intelligence network has always been deeply informed in this he Gaza/West Bank population.

The idea that militants in trucks/paragliders etc would be able come right up to a military base or even the wall separating Gaza from Israeli territory seems incomprehensible as well. Theres a reason why the last decade or so it’s been mostly rocket attacks. You don’t see the suicide bombs, bus/car bombs etc that used to be the main choice of attack. Any attacks involving people were real random and seemed to be based on opportunity rather than serious planning. A random Palestinian who maybe had a worker permit to be in Israeli territory attacking people with a knife, or trying to run people over in his car.

Maybe my perception of what happened is incorrect and more details will emerge. Or maybe I’m underestimating one side, or maybe the Israelis really did get complacent, or they had inklings but didn’t take them seriously or perhaps the attackers had more sophisticated, state level backing (like the Mumbai attacks that were apparently organized by Pakistani govt/intelligence but committed by a terrorist group).

Either way should be a bumpy ride.

the scary thing is if Israeli intelligence let it happen to undermine Bibi out of sheer spite

 

[Chronic]

You don't have an answer to that, do you?

The Wagner group is a LITERAL nazi outfit.

Yet I've regularly seen more nazi symbols on average Ukrainian soldiers uniforms than Wagner's uniforms. Just recently they honored Nazi veteran living in Canada. And there's Azov members heading to Israel to fight Hamas.

Azov is a small segment of a Ukrainian military with a jewish president and a muslim defense secretary being invaded by a literal right wing dictator. Look, if the USA was invaded you'd have Three-Percenters, Proud Boys, and other militias on the front lines. Thats what we're talking about here. Plus, Ukraine is the largest country in Europe-proper and has a longer history of facing off against imperialists and has more autonomy to fight back. Plus sometimes, the enemy is easier to oppose, in Putin.

Look, I already laid out my ideal...give them an actual country not some fukking zoo cage...but beyond that, I'm not seeing why defending HAMAS is where "the left" needs to be tip toeing around.

By that logic Russia having a half Tuvan (Shoigu) as defence minister, Muslim commanders and soldiers (Kadyrov and his Chechens), and half Jewish as leader of Wagner (Prigozhin) proved they're not Nazi.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Yet I've regularly seen more nazi symbols on average Ukrainian soldiers uniforms than Wagner's uniforms. Just recently they honored Nazi veteran living in Canada. And there's Azov members heading to Israel to fight Hamas.


By that logic Russia having a half Tuvan (Shoigu) as defence minister, Muslim commanders and soldiers (Kadyrov and his Chechens), and half Jewish as leader of Wagner (Prigozhin) proved they're not Nazi.

Pick your side. I know who I want to lose. We dont need to go back and forth beyond this.

 

[Squirrel from Meteor Man]

You can take an L thats hard to come back from.

Stuff like this indicates that MANY of you all don't know soviet history. They moved DOZENS of ethnic groups around their empire and many westerners are completely ignorant of this. Look, it happens and not all groups have the same clout or legitimacy or leverage to fight back or change the facts on the ground.

Population transfer in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Palestinians got used as pawns by the Arab world and basically are living with an L they can't really use to their advantage.

Define "exist"

Theres countries with differing levels of legitimacy for their indigenous groups between the Russians, Canadians, Australians, Mexicans, and Americans...even in Asian.

Be specific.

Again, different groups come to the table with different asks and leverage. Timing matters and emotional appeals carry different weight.


This isn't the topic.

did I say this?

Palestinians are treated like absolute dogs by the Israeli military.

A future Palestine would make women wear headscarves. Do you know how much this truly revolts me? I'm not a fan of conservative islamist societies. At all.



Theres black Israelis but yes, again Israel has tepid relations with African jews....but to say theres no africans in Israel that aren't integrated or apart of society is incorrect.

...But then people running to defend Palestine go overboard as if thats a black struggle and I'm like...ehhhhh. Solidarity against your oppressor? Sure... is that going to help black people when Palestine becomes a reality? I dont know.

You’re an advocate of genocide of people you deem as illegitimate (whatever that means), basically. You don’t have to use so many words to say that next time.