The Official Israel-Gaza Thread

[wire28]

I think you’re trying to play 5-d chess when this is really tic-tac-toe.
The election can be simplified to two options, fascism or democracy. If Biden wins our electoral politics continue and there is hope for legislative progression in the future.

If trump wins there’s a good chance we’ll become a phony democracy like Russia where there will be little to no hope of positive leftist change.

The best course of option is to elect Biden then campaign like hell to get your ideal candidate to win in the 2028 primary.

I think they know (or knew) this in 2016. Bernie losing really made some of them take one hell of a turn. They are pretty much stuck in the gravity of the accelerationist black hole where they won’t be happy until all the people they allegedly care about are suffering as they wait for a progressive messiah to save us all and overtake the government.

 

[Mister Terrific]

1) You didn't share any information that says the Biden admin is giving money to UNRWA affiliates

…

2) There is nothing that states that. The closest I've seen is this:

https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/news-releases/unrwa-usa-resumes-funding-un-agency-palestine-refugees-providing-5-million

That's fine. He is encouraging others to give money, but that ain't the same as the US government giving money, is it?

They just gave Palestine $1 billion.

The legislation will send $17 billion in wartime assistance to Israel and $9 billion in humanitarian relief to citizens of Gaza and other war-torn regions — with Biden specifying at a White House event to announce the signing on Wednesday that the package “includes $1 billion for additional humanitarian aid in Gaza.

Biden signs aid package with $17B for Israel, $1B extra humanitarian aid for Gazans | The Times of Israel

www.timesofisrael.com

3) US government can't give the UNRWA any money until 2025

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/national-security-daily/2024/04/23/bidens-hands-are-tied-on-unrwa-funding-00153894

4) Giving money to affiliates =/= giving money to the real thing. That you even thought this was a legit point and chose a smiley for it shows you ain't as serious a person as you think, and def not the serious thinker you want to present yourself as

I have already said I don’t think it’s good what Biden. However, we are contrasting this to what Trump will do which is completely end any an all aid to the organization for the duration of his presidency and if I had to guess hand over all aid and security within Gaza to Israel.

Brehs, this is another unserious person who is laughing at 30,000 people dead. Who probably said, "Trump would have let much worse happen at that Rafah refugee camp. "

I’m really struggling on how you can ascertain the difference between 30,000 dead and millions displaced to compete and utter annihilation.

No worries Trump has laid out his plans for Palestine

Trump peace plan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Palestine will have 0 autonomy.

 

[Th3G3ntleman]

I think you’re trying to play 5-d chess when this is really tic-tac-toe.
The election can be simplified to two options, fascism or democracy. If Biden wins our electoral politics continue and there is hope for legislative progression in the future.

If trump wins there’s a good chance we’ll become a phony democracy like Russia where there will be little to no hope of positive leftist change.

The best course of option is to elect Biden then campaign like hell to get your ideal candidate to win in the 2028 primary.

And in 2028 there will be another existential threat to democracy. We'll have to again coalesce around some right wing Liberal that is palatable to poo poo liberals that think they're good people and we do this dance again in 2032? Nah. I'm over this. I will never vote republican as I don't think in 2024 and beyond that is a functional party with a functional platform but this shaming people for not supporting garbage democrats is over for me. Niccas do what they want. The world is shyt and will continue to be shyt regardless of who is in the white house. If your principals tell you to not support these fukk boys in office follow your principles.

 

[FAH1223]

 

[Mister Terrific]

But that’s not what liberals are running on. In fact the left has decided this is more important than the actual issues and change trying to be brought forth.

You’re not getting your revolution that you think while being little p*ssy wanting some third party court in the Hague to speak truth to power for you.

You aren’t going to win a revolution by being any guns.

You aren’t going to win a revolution crying over why some nerds spending 50k a year on tuition are oppressed.

Grow up

Thank you. All this histrionics is becoming annoying with 0 real action. At least the weather underground was willing to blow shyt up during Vietnam. What’s the plan here, don’t vote for Biden, Trump wins…profit?

What’s the play? Civil war? World War 3. Global Intifada?

 

[Outlaw]

And in 2028 there will be another existential threat to democracy. We'll have to again coalesce around some right wing Liberal that is palatable to poo poo liberals that think they're good people and we do this dance again in 2032? Nah. I'm over this. I will never vote republican as I don't think in 2024 and beyond that is a functional party with a functional platform but this shaming people for not supporting garbage democrats is over for me. Niccas do what they want. The world is shyt and will continue to be shyt regardless of who is in the white house. If your principals tell you to not support these fukk boys in office follow your principles.

Your principles won’t mean shyt when the fascist take over and the Supreme Court will be MAGA for the next 30-40 years.

 

[Pressure]

Your principles won’t mean shyt when the fascist take over and the Supreme Court will be MAGA for the next 30-40 years.

nikkas shooting pool with no thoughts on their leave

 

[FAH1223]

 

[Mister Terrific]

“Under many moral frameworks, a pure calculation of the probable consequences of an action simply cannot be the end of the analysis. Many activists who protested against Lyndon Johnson’s escalation of the war on Vietnam, including invading the country with 500,000 troops, probably knew full well that protesting Johnson in 1968 could undermine his presidency, and that the year would therefore end in a Republican victory. But they felt a moral duty to speak out against an atrocity, and their consciences revolted against the idea of remaining silent simply because Republicans tend to have worse foreign policy.”


Curious argument. Considering Nixon was an unmitigated disaster for everyone in South East Asia and he and Kissing killed more people in 3 years from Laotian peasants to American soldiers than at any point in the conflict as well as beginning the criminalization of Black Americans

Nixon advisor: We created the war on drugs to “criminalize” black people and the anti-war left​

Nixon advisor: We created the war on drugs to “criminalize” black people and the anti-war left

"We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black."

qz.com

Nixon sunk himself. Not student protests. Not boycotts or terrorism. Nixon would’ve been in office 8 years and likely would’ve continued arming the South Vietnamese government.


The author goes on to acknowledge the destruction of Cambodia but then hand waves it away with “We don’t know what (LBJ) would’ve done” so we can’t worry about consequences as we moralize now.

That argument falls apart when Trump and his advisors have gone on record about what he wants to do with Palestine

Jared Kushner says Gaza’s ‘waterfront property could be very valuable’ | Jared Kushner | The Guardian

Donald Trump’s son-in-law also says Israel should bulldoze an area of the Negev desert and move Palestinians there

amp.theguardian.com

“It’s a little bit of an unfortunate situation there, but from Israel’s perspective I would do my best to move the people out and then clean it up,” Kushner said. “But I don’t think that Israel has stated that they don’t want the people to move back there afterwards.”
Masoud replied that there was “a lot to talk about there”.
Kushner also said he thinks Israel should move civilians from Gaza to the Negev desert in southern Israel.
He said that if he were in charge of Israel his number one priority would be getting civilians out of the southern city of Rafah, and that “with diplomacy” it could be possible to get them into Egypt.
“But in addition to that, I would just bulldoze something in the Negev, I would try to move people in there,” he said. “I think that’s a better option, so you can go in and finish the job.”

Trump envoy to Arab-Americans flops at Michigan meeting, talks about Gaza's real estate potential

Richard Grenell, Trump's "shadow Secretary of State," appeared to be unconcerned about Palestinian deaths

www.salon.com

A source that attended the meeting told NOTUS, a nonprofit media outlet, that Trump's outreach lead was Richard Grennell, the former Trump administration official who The Washington Post refers to as Trump's "shadow Secretary of State." He did not impress, the source said, describing him bluntly as "clueless on the Middle East."

The meeting took place at an Italian restaurant in Troy, Michigan, a swing state —with an Arab-American population of more than 200,000 — that Biden won in 2020 by 250,000 votes. According to sources at the dinner, Grenell fixated on what Arab-Americans could do for Trump without seriously offering anything Trump could do for them, all while expressing little sympathy for Palestinians in Gaza.

Grenell even doubled down on commentsmade by Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, that Israel should remove Palestinians from areas that could be developed as "valuable waterfront property," according to an attendee. “He repeated Jared Kushner’s statement about beachfront property, which I think floated like a lead balloon in the room,” the person said.

Grenell also boasted about Trump's role in the Abraham Accords, which normalized relations between Israel and some Arab countries. Otherwise, the sources observed, Grenell just said "typical Republican things" about the Israel-Hamas war. Republicans have generally encouraged Israel to prosecute its war in Gaza with even more vehemence than their Democratic counterparts.

Trump, for his part, has said that Israel should "finish what they started."


Again this poor argument “things can’t get worse”

Yes the fukk it can.

 

[BK The Great]

 

[mastermind]

apologies

i missed that in your first post. Point still remains that he believed a lie and forced other nations to stop funding the UNRWA.

They just gave Palestine $1 billion.

The legislation will send $17 billion in wartime assistance to Israel and $9 billion in humanitarian relief to citizens of Gaza and other war-torn regions — with Biden specifying at a White House event to announce the signing on Wednesday that the package “includes $1 billion for additional humanitarian aid in Gaza.

So we give 17 billion for war and 1 billion for aid that can’t get through. Seems fair.

I have already said I don’t think it’s good what Biden. However, we are contrasting this to what Trump will do which is completely end any an all aid to the organization for the duration of his presidency and if I had to guess hand over all aid and security within Gaza to Israel.

you are contrasting it, I’m talking about what Biden is doing right now. I don’t care about potentially what’s going to happen.

I’m really struggling on how you can ascertain the difference between 30,000 dead and millions displaced to compete and utter annihilation.

Im struggling to ascertain why you don’t care about 30,000 dead people.

 

[Hood Critic]

 

[Th3G3ntleman]

Your principles won’t mean shyt when the fascist take over and the Supreme Court will be MAGA for the next 30-40 years.

Word? The Supreme Court is making partisan decisions now and we have an administration spying on students and supporting bills calling for punishment for critcizing a foreign nation. All that shyt is happening now....under democratic leadership. What would yall do without a future boogey man to point to?

 

[Mister Terrific]

Im struggling to ascertain why you don’t care about 30,000 dead people.

Yep. I want their deaths to mean something. If you truly cared about them you’d want there to be a chance of some restitution or settlement with the Palestinian people. Not their ultimate destruction because it makes leftists feel good to be eternal morally correct losers.

 

[Pull Up the Roots]

US-made munitions used in deadly strike on Rafah tent camp, CNN analysis shows.

Munitions made in the United States were used in the deadly Israeli strike on a displacement camp in Rafah on Sunday, a CNN analysis of video from the scene and a review by explosive weapons experts has found.

At least 45 people were killed and more than 200 others injured after a fire broke out following the Israeli military’s strike on the outskirts of Gaza’s southernmost city, most of them women and children, according to the Gaza Health Ministry and Palestinian medics.

Footage obtained by CNN showed swathes of the camp in Rafah in flames, with scores of men, women and children frantically trying to find cover from the nighttime assault. Burned bodies, including those of children, could be seen being pulled by rescuers from the wreckage.

Israel’s escalating assault in Rafah – where some 1.3 million Palestinians were taking shelter before Israel began its operation there – has drawn swift international condemnation, with United Nations agencies, aid groups and multiple governments calling on Israel to immediately halt its offensive.

Israeli tanks were seen advancing further into Rafah on Tuesday for the first time in Israel’s seven-month war against Hamas, signaling a new phase Israel pressing on with its controversial and destructive offensive.

However, US President Joe Biden is not altering his policy towards Israel, suggesting the deadly Rafah strike had not yet crossed a red line that would force changes in American support, despite him saying in a CNN interview earlier this month he wouldn’t allow certain US weapons to be used in a major offensive in Rafah.

The Biden boosters in here should be wondering why Ol' Joe is willing to endanger his election chances by refusing to change course on arming Israel.