2Quik4UHoes

Why you had to go?
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Are both options deplorable? Aren’t you a Canadian anyway?

Just stop it. Their administrations are nothing alike, the appointees, the judges, this is the most progressive government we’ve had in a longtime and they’re actively delivering for the American people.

Just say you’re a low information single issue voter and call it a day.


No, I’m a born and raised American citizen actually so my tax dollars are directly used for this fukk shyt. And I vote independent and vote on local, state, and federal issues so unlike you I’m not obligated to wave my blue tent Pom Poms.

So as a citizen, I find how I’m being represented by my government to be incredibly deplorable and these resources could be used on actually helping people right here rather than enriching weapons manufacturers and the prostitutes that we call politicians. Just say you’d rather the killing machine look benevolent instead, at least you’d be coming from a more honest position. :ehh:
 

waltthizzney

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its about to pop off with Iran and Hezbollah any day now you heard it first.... I know some people in cyber security out there
 

Outlaw

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Why is Biden making it harder for himself by supporting a genocide is the real question. This is not taxes or even universal healthcare that he is asking people to compromise on....it's fukking genocide and ethnic cleansing committed with our fukking weapons and money.
I think Biden is making a political calculation and ideologically supports Israel. People on the left think it’s a genocide but I don’t think it’s a view seen by moderates and Haley/never trumpers voters who could be wooed to vote for Biden.

If Biden started to more aggressively call for a ceasefire or stop supplying aid, right wing/corporate media would start calling him soft on terror, Hamas sympathizer, betraying Israel etc. That type of backlash would make him lose support from the center right.

Politically Biden is in a lose lose situation here. I guess he’s making a political calculation that more voters on the left disgusted by his support for Israel would hold their nose and vote for him versus those center right voters he would lose if the corporate media machine turned against him and propagandize him as a Hamas sympathizer.
 

Outlaw

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No, I’m a born and raised American citizen actually so my tax dollars are directly used for this fukk shyt. And I vote independent and vote on local, state, and federal issues so unlike you I’m not obligated to wave my blue tent Pom Poms.

So as a citizen, I find how I’m being represented by my government to be incredibly deplorable and these resources could be used on actually helping people right here rather than enriching weapons manufacturers and the prostitutes that we call politicians. Just say you’d rather the killing machine look benevolent instead, at least you’d be coming from a more honest position. :ehh:
How will your life be better if Biden loses and Trump wins?
 

Json

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its about to pop off with Iran and Hezbollah any day now you heard it first.... I know some people in cyber security out there
Iran and Hezbollah are going to be forced to respond now. The fact two generals caught that fade isn’t something they can just let slide.

i don’t know what Hezbollah is even capable of.
 

Json

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I think Biden is making a political calculation and ideologically supports Israel.
At the end of the day, Israel’s intelligence operations is key to keeping track of terrorist organizations.

America can let that resource go but this is so far left in the goal of normalizing relations in the region. I can’t see what the calculus is to being a strong negotiator
 

TheAlbionist

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The deaths of the aid workers are tragedies and the circumstances seem scandalous but it's painful watching the establishment do a 180 because a handful of westerners got blown up after 10s of thousands of people, many killed indiscriminately alongside their entire families, that they didn't give a solitary fukk about.

They've been murdering doctors, aid workers, journalists and fukking babies for the whole time already. This is what it took?

And how long does it take them to realise our outrage means fukk all to them? In the short term Israel have just managed to kill ALL aid by capping a car full of Good Samaritans.
 

nyknick

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Not a normal war’: doctors say children have been targeted by Israeli snipers in Gaza​


Dr Fozia Alvi was making her rounds of the intensive care unit on her final day at the battered European public hospital in southern Gaza when she stopped next to two young arrivals with facial injuries and breathing tubes in their windpipes.

“I asked the nurse, what’s the history? She said that they were brought in a couple of hours ago. They had sniper shots to the brain. They were seven or eight years old,” she said.

The Canadian doctor’s heart sank. These were not the first children treated by Alvi who she was told were targeted by Israeli soldiers, and she knew the damage a single high-calibre bullet could do to a fragile young body.

“They were not able to talk, paraplegic. They were literally lying down as vegetables on those beds. They were not the only ones. I saw even small children with direct sniper shot wounds to the head as well as in the chest. They were not combatants, they were small children,” said Alvi.

Children account for more than one in three of the more than 32,000 people killed in Israel’s months-long assault on Gaza, according to the Palestinian health ministry. Tens of thousands more young people have suffered severe injuries, including amputations.

Nine doctors gave the Guardian accounts of working in Gaza hospitals this year, all but one of them foreign volunteers. Their common assessment was that most of the dead and wounded children they treated were hit by shrapnel or burned during Israel’s extensive bombardment of residential neighbourhoods, in some cases wiping out entire families. Others were killed or injured by collapsing buildings with still more missing under the rubble.

But doctors also reported treating a steady stream of children, elderly people and others who were clearly not combatants with single bullet wounds to the head or chest.

Some of the physicians said that the types and locations of the wounds, and accounts of Palestinians who brought children to the hospital, led them to believe the victims were directly targeted by Israeli troops.

Other doctors said they did not know the circumstances of the shootings but that they were deeply troubled by the number of children who were severely wounded or killed by single gunshots, sometimes by high-calibre bullets causing extensive damage to young bodies.

In mid-February, a group of UN experts accused the Israeli military of targeting Palestinian civilians who are evidently not combatants, including children, as they sought shelter.

“We are shocked by reports of the deliberate targeting and extrajudicial killing of Palestinian women and children in places where they sought refuge, or while fleeing. Some of them were reportedly holding white pieces of cloth when they were killed by the Israeli army or affiliated forces,” the group said.

The Guardian shared descriptions and images of gunshot wounds suffered by eight children with military experts and forensic pathologists. They said it was difficult to conclusively determine the circumstances of the shootings based on the descriptions and photos alone, although in some of the cases they were able to identify ammunition used by the Israeli military.

Eyewitness accounts and video recordings appear to back up claims that Israeli soldiers have fired on civilians, including children, outside of combat with Hamas or other armed groups. In some cases, witnesses describe coming under fire while waving white flags. Haaretz reported on Saturday that Israel routinely fires on civilians in areas its military has declared a “combat zone”.

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) deploy snipers – or sharpshooters, as the military calls them – during combat operations, often as part of elite units. They are trained to “target and eliminate particularly difficult terrorist threats”, according to the military’s own definition.

Israeli and foreign human rights groups have documented a long history of snipers firing on unarmed Palestinians, including children, in Gaza and the West Bank.

Palestinians in Gaza also report a terrifying new development in the latest Gaza war – armed drones able to hover over streets and pick off individuals. Called quadcopters, some of these drones are used as remote-control snipers that Palestinians say have been used to shoot civilians.

The IDF said it “completely rejects” allegations that its snipers deliberately fire on civilians. It said it cannot address individual shootings “without coordinates of the incidents”.

“The IDF only targets terrorists and military targets. In stark contrast to Hamas’s deliberate attacks on Israeli civilians, including men, women and children, the IDF follows international law and takes feasible precautions to mitigate civilian harm,” it said.

Doctors say otherwise.

Dr Vanita Gupta, an intensive care doctor at a New York City hospital, volunteered at Gaza’s European hospital in January. One morning, three badly wounded children arrived in quick succession. Their families told Gupta that the children had been together in the street when they came under fire and that there had been no other shooting in the area. She said no wounded adults were brought in to the hospital at the same time and from the same place.

“One child, I could see there was a shot to the head. They were doing CPR on this five- or six-year-old girl who obviously died,” said Gupta.


“There was another little girl about the same age. I saw a bullet entry wound on her head. Her father was there, crying and asking me, ‘Can you save her? She’s my only child.’”


Gupta said that a third young child also had a shot to the head and was sent for a CT scan.

“The neurosurgeon looked and said, ‘There’s no hope.’ You could see the bullet had gone through the head. I don’t know how old he was, but young,” she said.

Family members told Gupta that the Israeli army had withdrawn from the area about four kilometres from the hospital.

“They said people started returning to their homes because the army was gone. But the snipers stayed on. The families said they opened fire at the children,” she said.

Doctors who worked at the Nasser hospital in southern Gaza said what appeared to be targeted Israeli fire killed more than two dozen people, including children, as they entered or left the hospital in the first weeks of this year.

Among the casualties was 14-year-old Ruwa Qdeih. Doctors say she was shot dead outside the hospital in Khan Younis as she went to collect water. They said there was no fighting in the area at the time and that she was killed by a single shot and then men who went to recover her body were also shot at.

In Gaza City, three-year-old Emad Abu al-Qura was shot outside his home as he went to buy fruit with his cousin, Hadeel, a 20-year-old medical student, who was also killed. The family said they were targeted by an Israeli sniper.

A video of the pair lying together in the street shows Emad still alive after he is first hit and trying to lift his head. More shots hit the ground close by including one that strikes a plank next to Emad. The boy’s mother said he was then hit again and this time killed.


Hadeel’s father, Haroon, saw the shooting.
 

Loose

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I’m an American. Life is materially better for me under Biden than it would be under Trump. The effects of another Trump administration will be felt for the next 30 years at least if he can continue to shape the Supreme Court.
You ever heard of blow back? These things exist, us civilians have found themselves throughout history in significant revenge plots over terrible foreign policy decisions.
 

LOST IN THE SAUCE

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The deaths of the aid workers are tragedies and the circumstances seem scandalous but it's painful watching the establishment do a 180 because a handful of westerners got blown up after 10s of thousands of people, many killed indiscriminately alongside their entire families, that they didn't give a solitary fukk about.

They've been murdering doctors, aid workers, journalists and fukking babies for the whole time already. This is what it took?

And how long does it take them to realise our outrage means fukk all to them? In the short term Israel have just managed to kill ALL aid by capping a car full of Good Samaritans.
I think you have too much faith in the establishment if you think that we're going to see a 180. The media might be running with this story, but this isn't the first media outrage moment Israel has caused during this genocide.

I really do hope this is finally the turning point, but I see no indication that Biden intends to change his stance. It seems pretty likely we are going to continue supplying arms, and potentially even joining the regional war that seems set to break out any second now.
 

2Quik4UHoes

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How will your life be better if Biden loses and Trump wins?

Fixed.

I agree with you good American brother @2Quik4UHoes but I also recognize Trump would do harm to both you and those in Palestine and generations thereafter in both regions

That’s a disingenuous place to start from. No one is arguing for Trump at all or that things will be better. What’s being said clearly is that outside of rhetoric there isn’t a huge difference in the foreign policies of Biden and Trump. Again, no one can refute my analogy of a cobra’s venom vs a hippo’s gore. Both are very brutal ways to die but one is more subtle and the other is not.

Plenty of damage has already been done to generations of Palestinians. Hell, the very credibility of America both domestically and globally has been tremendously damaged. That’s the point, Biden and the mainstream Dems demonized Trump and the right in every way (as they should) but then they went ahead and pulled a lot of same hypocritical shyt and fully jeopardized America’s standing. Not to mention, for there to be such a fervor to defeat Trump, Biden is doing everything he can to hand him the election. On top of that, has it ever occurred to Americans that this type of hypocritical and murderous behavior puts our own lives at risk here and especially overseas?

So if we’re being real here, it’s Biden’s completely tone deaf response to all this that’s brought us to this point. He decided to be on the wrong side of history and now he’s most likely not getting a second term the same way LBJ didn’t because of the Vietnam fukkery.
 

wire28

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That’s a disingenuous place to start from. No one is arguing for Trump at all or that things will be better. What’s being said clearly is that outside of rhetoric there isn’t a huge difference in the foreign policies of Biden and Trump. Again, no one can refute my analogy of a cobra’s venom vs a hippo’s gore. Both are very brutal ways to die but one is more subtle and the other is not.

Plenty of damage has already been done to generations of Palestinians. Hell, the very credibility of America both domestically and globally has been tremendously damaged. That’s the point, Biden and the mainstream Dems demonized Trump and the right in every way (as they should) but then they went ahead and pulled a lot of same hypocritical shyt and fully jeopardized America’s standing. Not to mention, for there to be such a fervor to defeat Trump, Biden is doing everything he can to hand him the election. On top of that, has it ever occurred to Americans that this type of hypocritical and murderous behavior puts our own lives at risk here and especially overseas?

So if we’re being real here, it’s Biden’s completely tone deaf response to all this that’s brought us to this point. He decided to be on the wrong side of history and now he’s most likely not getting a second term the same way LBJ didn’t because of the Vietnam fukkery.
If you want to use your analogy Biden is the cobra and Trump is the hippo. The hippo just is very likely to run wild and inflict damage on multiple generations in multiple regions.

Trump was telling people to ingest bleach, I have no doubt he would be causing worse pain both here and abroad. That’s my only squabble.
 
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