LOST IN THE SAUCE

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I think the problem is the way it's written. If you watch the video and read the report it seems the intelligence document is just making claims without subsequent data to back those claims up.

Not that sky news has saw the documents to support those claims and determined those documents to be bullshyt.

Not sure it makes a difference either way since their is an investigation going on about those claims suggesting there is some basis to some of them.
This is true, but the issue is that Israel pushed the dossier as the evidence. The same 6 page document is what they provided everyone as their proof.

Originally they claimed that the info was attained through interrogation, but with the reports of torture and forced statements, they pivoted to saying geolocation and all that with the dossier as their proof. It already started off from dubious claims, so I don't really give much credence to their accusations, especially with their track record.

I recognize that lack of evidence does not equal proof against, and I've alread said I wouldn't be surprised if there were some UNRWA workers who participated given the fact that they hire from within Gaza.
It is worth noting that UNRWA provides a list of their work force to Israel for them to run their own background checks, and they have raised issues with employees based on that exchange in the past.
 

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Read your sources. They said they couldn’t corroborate the evidence. They did not deny the evidence.

Unless you want Unit 8200 encrypted info Unit 8200 - Wikipedia





None of this contradicts the statement that the US admitted the choice was made to cut funding without seeing evidence.

This is a lie. The US did not omit evidence. They said they needed to corroborate it. This is NOT what was said.

You’re, of course, lying.
This is just more pointless bloviating from a known liar.

Nap can't do anything but lie and argue in bad faith. His response to being called out for lying is to just lie even more. He really can't help himself. Just shameful and pathetic.

Taqiyya bullshyt.

Read the article. I have actual access and dont rely on headlines.

This is a damning amount of detail:


Details Emerge on U.N. Workers Accused of Aiding Hamas Raid
Israeli officials have presented evidence they say ties workers at a Palestinian aid agency in Gaza to violence during the Hamas-led attack on Israel.

By Ronen Bergman and Patrick Kingsley

The reporters reviewed intelligence documents related to the Israeli allegations and interviewed officials briefed on their contents.

Published Jan. 28, 2024Updated Jan. 29, 2024, 4:38 a.m. ET

Sign up for the Israel-Hamas War Briefing. The latest news about the conflict.

One is accused of kidnapping a woman. Another is said to have handed out ammunition. A third was described as taking part in the massacre at a kibbutz where 97 people died. And all were said to be employees of the United Nations aid agency that schools, shelters and feeds hundreds of thousands of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.

The accusations are contained in a dossier provided to the United States government that details Israel’s claims against a dozen employees of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency who, it says, played a role in the Hamas attacks against Israel on Oct. 7 or in their aftermath.

The U.N. said on Friday that it had fired several employees after being briefed on the allegations. But little was known about the accusations until the dossier was reviewed on Sunday by The New York Times.

The accusations are what prompted eight countries, including the United States, to suspend some aid payment to UNRWA, as the agency is known, even as war plunges Palestinians in Gaza into desperate straits. More than 26,000 people have been killed there and nearly two million displaced, according to Gazan and U.N. officials.

The UNRWA workers have been accused of helping Hamas stage the attack that set off the war in Gaza, or of aiding it in the days after. Some 1,200 people in Israel were killed that day, Israeli officials say, and about 240 were abducted and taken to Gaza.

On Sunday, the United Nations secretary general, António Guterres, described himself as “horrified by these accusations” and noted that nine of the 12 accused employees had been fired. But Mr. Guterres implored those nations that had suspended their aid payments to reconsider. UNRWA is one of the largest employers in Gaza, with 13,000 people, mostly Palestinians, on staff.

Asked about Israel’s allegations on Sunday, UNRWA said that two of the 12 employees were dead but that it could not provide more information while the U.N.’s Office of Internal Oversight Services was still investigating.

Two Western officials confirmed on the condition of anonymity that they had been briefed on the contents of the dossier in recent days, but said they had not been able to verify the details. Although the United States has yet to corroborate the Israeli claims itself, American officials say they found them credible enough to warrant suspending aid.

The Times verified the identity of one of the 12 employees, a storeroom manager, whose social media profile lists him as an UNRWA employee and shows him wearing U.N.-branded clothes.


The Israeli dossier, presented to U.S. officials on Friday, lists the names and jobs of the UNRWA employees and the allegations against them.

The dossier said that Israeli intelligence officers had established the movements of six of the men inside Israel on Oct. 7 based on their phones; others had been monitored while making phone calls inside Gaza during which, the Israelis say, they discussed their involvement in the Hamas attack.

Three others got text messages ordering them to report to muster points on Oct. 7, and one was told to bring rocket-propelled grenades stored at his home, according to the dossier.

The Israelis described 10 of the employees as members of Hamas, the militant group that controlled Gaza at the time of the Oct. 7 attack. Another was said to be affiliated with another militant group, Islamic Jihad.

Yet seven of the accused were also said to be teachers at UNRWA schools, instructing students in subjects like math and Arabic. Two others worked at the schools in other capacities. The remaining three were described as a clerk, a social worker and the storeroom manager.

The most detailed accusations in the dossier concerned a school counselor from Khan Younis, in southern Gaza, who is accused of working with his son to abduct a woman from Israel.

A social worker from Nuseirat, in central Gaza, is accused of helping to bring the body of a dead Israeli soldier to Gaza, as well as distributing ammunition and coordinating vehicles on the day of the attack.


The Israeli accusations come against the backdrop of decades-long frictions with UNRWA. Since 1949, the agency has cared for the families of Palestinians who fled or were forced from their homes during the wars surrounding the creation of the state of Israel.

A man carries two large bags of aid on his shoulder.
Displaced Palestinians receiving food aid at the UNRWA center in Rafah, Gaza, on Sunday.Agence France-Presse — Getty Images
The organization provides vital aid to more than five million Palestinian refugees scattered across the Middle East, whose future and status have never been resolved despite years of negotiations.

But to its critics, including many Israelis, the agency is an obstacle to resolving the conflict. Its very existence, they say, prevents Palestinian refugees from integrating into new communities and stokes their dreams of one day returning to what is now Israel — a goal that Israel says it will never allow. And in Gaza, Israel argues, UNRWA has fallen under the influence of Hamas, a claim the agency rejects.

This is not the first time the United States has cut off money to the U.N. agency. The Trump administration suspended aid as part its efforts to pressure the Palestinian leadership to stop demanding that refugees be allowed to return to Israel.

But the current threat to its funding is considered to be the gravest in its history because it comes at a time of crisis for Gaza.

Amid warnings of famine, the collapse of the health system and the massive displacement of the Palestinian population, UNRWA’s work is considered more important than ever. It helps coordinate the distribution of the supplies of aid — however meager — that arrive each day in southern Gaza, and its schools provide shelter to more than a million Gazans, according to the agency’s statistics.

The funding suspensions may be felt quickly. Unlike other U.N. agencies, UNRWA has no strategic financial reserve. On Sunday, Mr. Guterres said services might need to be reduced beginning in February.

A day earlier, the agency’s commissioner-general, Philippe Lazzarini, warned of impending catastrophe.

“It would be immensely irresponsible to sanction an agency and an entire community it serves because of allegations of criminal acts against some individuals, especially at a time of war, displacement and political crises in the region,” he said.

“The lives of people in Gaza depend on this support, and so does regional stability,” Mr. Lazzarini said.

Soldiers carry guns as they walk outside a building that caught fire.
Israeli soldiers escorting people to pick up belongings in Be’eri, about a week after the kibbutz was attacked in October.Sergey Ponomarev for The New York Times
The State Department on Friday acknowledged the critical humanitarian role played by UNRWA but said it was suspending its funding while it assessed both the allegations and the agency’s response to them.

Israeli officials themselves were concerned on Sunday about whether their accusations might in the end make their own position more difficult, according to three officials involved in the discussion. A collapse in the delivery of services to Gaza could force Israel to shoulder a greater role in running aid distribution — a role it does not want.

Reports about the accusations against the aid workers came on the same day that the International Court of Justice issued an interim ruling on accusations of genocide that have been leveled against Israel by South Africa. The court ordered Israel to take action to prevent acts of genocide by its forces in Gaza and to allow more aid into the territory.

Reporting was contributed by Johnatan Reiss, Julian E. Barnes, Gabby Sobelman and Myra Noveck.

Ronen Bergman is a staff writer for The New York Times Magazine, based in Tel Aviv. His latest book is “Rise and Kill First: The Secret History of Israel’s Targeted Assassinations,” published by Random House. More about Ronen Bergman

Patrick Kingsley is the Jerusalem bureau chief, covering Israel and the occupied territories. He has reported from more than 40 countries, written two books and previously covered migration and the Middle East for The Guardian. More about Patrick Kingsley

A version of this article appears in print on Jan. 29, 2024, Section A, Page 1 of the New York edition with the headline: Dossier Details Alleged Actions Of Aid Workers. Order Reprints | Today’s Paper | Subscribe
 

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This is true, but the issue is that Israel pushed the dossier as the evidence. The same 6 page document is what they provided everyone as their proof.

Originally they claimed that the info was attained through interrogation, but with the reports of torture and forced statements, they pivoted to saying geolocation and all that with the dossier as their proof. It already started off from dubious claims, so I don't really give much credence to their accusations, especially with their track record.

I recognize that lack of evidence does not equal proof against, and I've alread said I wouldn't be surprised if there were some UNRWA workers who participated given the fact that they hire from within Gaza.
It is worth noting that UNRWA provides a list of their work force to Israel for them to run their own background checks, and they have raised issues with employees based on that exchange in the past.
oh great you admitted you lied about your own defense of Hamas operatives being involved as UNRWA double employees :francis:…because you are an illiterate troll that doesn’t understand textual nuance.

@FAH1223 knows better too. Thats why he’s hoping people didn’t point this out.

He was posting tweets saying “LOOK CHANNEL 4 SAID ITS A LIE…” while ignoring CHANNEL 4 DIDNT SAY THAT. CHANNEL 4 SAID THEY NEEDED MORE INFO BEYOND THE DOSSIER BECAUSE THEY WANTED THE RAW INTELLIGENCE



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He’s a bad faith actor.
Taqiyyah troll.

This is Jet Fuel Doesn’t Melt Steel Beams level of bullshyt from you. :camby:

Again, you all have moved the goalposts when its evident that theres LITERAL NAMES AND INTERCEPTS OF THESE PEOPLE AROUND THE HOSTAGES.

YOU are a bad faith actor, and thats not even addressing you lying about the sources you’re advancing because maybe you can’t afford the subscription to read beyond the fukking title.

No wonder you don’t take your L’s respectfully. Thats why it’s incumbent on us to stuff your trash analysis in the bin where it belongs and expose you as the shameless HAMAS advocate you are. You’ve been doing this stupid islamist defense for YEARS of claiming the need for “context” and “nuance” and claiming issues are too complex for outsiders to understand.

Nah, we get it. YOu’re biased because youre a muslim…but the shyt isn’t working here and you should just quite while you’re ahead.

You were INFAMOUS for doing this shyt during the Syrian Civil War on here.

Enough is enough. Cut the bullshyt. We see through you.
 

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@LOST IN THE SAUCE





Intelligence Reveals Details of U.N. Agency Staff’s Links to Oct. 7 Attack
Around 10% of Palestinian aid agency’s 12,000 staff in Gaza have links to militants, according to intelligence dossier

Six United Nations Relief and Works Agency workers were part of the wave of Palestinian militants who killed 1,200 people in the deadliest assault on Jews since the Holocaust, according to the intelligence dossier. Two helped kidnap Israelis. Two others were tracked to sites where scores of Israeli civilians were shot and killed. Others coordinated logistics for the assault, including procuring weapons.

Of the 12 Unrwa employees with links to the attacks, seven were primary or secondary school teachers, including two math teachers, two Arabic language teachers and one primary school teacher.

The information in the intelligence reports—based on what an official described as very sensitive signals intelligence as well as cellphone tracking data, interrogations of captured Hamas fighters and documents recovered from dead militants, among other things—were part of a briefing given by Israel to U.S. officials that led Washington and others to suspend aid to Unrwa.

Intelligence estimates shared with the U.S. conclude that around 1,200 of Unrwa’s roughly 12,000 employees in Gaza have links to Hamas or Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and about half have close relatives who belong to the Islamist militant groups. Both groups have been designated as terrorist organizations by the U.S. and others. Hamas has run Gaza since a 2007 coup.

“Unrwa’s problem is not just ‘a few bad apples’ involved in the October 7 massacre,” said a senior Israeli government official. “The institution as a whole is a haven for Hamas’ radical ideology.”

An Unrwa spokesperson on Monday declined to comment, saying an internal U.N. investigation into the agency was under way.

Two officials familiar with the intelligence said the Unrwa employees considered to have ties with militant groups were deemed to be “operatives,” indicating they took active part in the organization’s military or political framework. The report said 23% of Unrwa’s male employees had ties to Hamas, a higher percentage than the average of 15% for adult males in Gaza, indicating a higher politicization of the agency than the population at large.

Nearly half of all Unrwa employees—an estimated 49%—also had close relatives who also had official ties to the militant groups, especially Hamas, the intelligence reports said.


In the aftermath of Oct. 7, as Israel has waged war against Hamas in Gaza, Unrwa has emerged as one of the loudest voices decrying the impact of the fierce fighting on Palestinians in the enclave, where authorities say more than 26,000 people have been killed. Unrwa says at least 152 of its own staff have been killed in the conflict.

The agency is also the main pillar of operations to move food aid, medicine and other humanitarian supplies into Gaza.

The vast majority of Unrwa’s 30,000 staff across the Middle East are Palestinian, and Israel and some in the U.S. have long accused it of nurturing anti-Israeli sentiment in crowded refugee camps that have been important recruiting grounds for militant groups, including Hamas.

The Trump administration suspended funding for Unrwa in 2018, saying the agency’s mission was fundamentally misguided. The Biden administration renewed funding in 2021.:wow: :whoo: :snoop:

The Oct. 7 intelligence reports seen by the Journal identified an Unrwa Arabic teacher who the reports said was also a Hamas militant commander and took part in a terrorist attack on Kibbutz Be’eri, where 97 people were killed and about 26 people were kidnapped and taken as hostages to Gaza.

Another Unrwa employee, described in the dossier as an Unrwa social worker, played a role in absconding with the body of a dead Israeli soldier, which was taken to Gaza, the reports said. He also coordinated trucks and munitions distributions for Hamas before being killed.


A person familiar with the dossier said that after U.S. officials were briefed on the intelligence material, they alerted Unrwa, which put out a statement announcing the allegation that some of its employees were linked to the attacks and saying it had fired the employees involved. It provided no details, and didn’t say how many employees were involved.

On Sunday, U.N. Secretary-General António Guterres said he was personally horrified by the allegations.

Unrwa commissioner-general Philippe Lazzarini criticized Western nations for pausing aid at a time when Gaza is facing a humanitarian crisis as the war between Hamas and Israel rages. Guterres also implored nations to not suspend humanitarian aid.

It is “immensely irresponsible to sanction an agency and an entire community it serves because of allegations of criminal acts against some individuals,” Lazzarini said.

Unrwa looks after more than 5 million Palestinians in densely-packed refugee neighborhoods across the Middle East, including the West Bank, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. But its biggest operations are in Gaza, where it looks after an estimated 80% of the local population and runs hundreds of schools and scores of clinics.

Israel says it has documented deepening ties between Unrwa and Hamas since the militant group cemented its hold on Gaza in 2007. Unrwa has admitted to finding Hamas weapons stored in schools and Israel has repeatedly said Hamas tunnels run under and through Unrwa buildings as well as other civilian facilities. The former head of Unrwa’s union in Gaza was fired in 2017 after Israel found out he had been elected to Hamas’ top political leadership. :gucci:

The dossier is the most detailed look yet at the widespread links between the Unrwa employees and militants. It offers telling details regarding the events of Oct. 7.

A math teacher belonging to Hamas was close enough to a female hostage in Gaza that he took a picture of her. Another teacher was carrying an antitank missile the night before the invasion.:gucci: :mindblown: :francis:

One Unrwa employee set up an operations room for Palestinian Islamic Jihad on Oct. 8, the day after the attack. Three other employees, including another Arabic teacher at an Unrwa school, received a text from Hamas to arm themselves at a staging area close to the border the night before the attack. :picard: It was unclear whether they went.

A different elementary school teacher did cross into Israel and went to Reim, a district where a kibbutz, an army base and a music festival were attacked.

One of the intelligence reports seen by the Journal said a 13th Unrwa employee, who didn’t have a discernible affiliation with a terror group, also entered Israel. Hundreds of Gazan civilians flooded across the border as part of the Hamas-led attack, Israel says.

Teachers make up nearly three-quarters of Unrwa’s Gaza-based local staff. Unrwa schools, which use textbooks approved by the Palestinian Authority, have come under fire for using materials that allegedly glorify terrorists and promote hatred of Israel. Unrwa says it has taken steps to address problematic content, but a 2019 U.S. Government Accountability Office report said that measures haven’t always been implemented.

Since Oct. 7, Hamas has stolen more than $1 million worth of Unrwa supplies, including fuel and trucks, according to the intelligence report. The intelligence assessment alleges that Hamas operatives are so deeply enmeshed within the Unrwa aid-delivery enterprise as to coordinate transfers for the organization.
 

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I’m not even shocked anymore that Trita Parsi is y’all’s favorite Middle East analyst when he’s clearly an IRGC paid agent waving his finger at any anti-Ayatollah action taken around the world as an “escalation” while ignoring the civil rights and freedom of those that dont wanna acknowledge some weirdo theocrat.

Look at this fukking goof…now he’s scared a Saudi/Israel deal will “not cause peace”…how the fukk not? :heh:



What he’s mad about is that Iran isn’t at the table… :mjpls:



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LOST IN THE SAUCE

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Read your sources. They said they couldn’t corroborate the evidence. They did not deny the evidence.
This is just more bloviation. The sources said the dossier contained no evidence of the accusations, which is what I said. I claimed nothing more, nothing less. You are just making noise that you think sounds like a rebuttal. Everyone can see you floundering.
This is a lie. The US did not omit evidence. They said they needed to corroborate it. This is NOT what was said.
No one claimed they omitted evidence.
The US made the immediate decision to cut funding without seeing evidence, before any investigation was done. This is the claim that was made by Blinken himself. This remains uncontested by Nap, and he has chosen to fight ghosts instead. More bloviation, more lies, more bullshyt from Nap. If Nap couldn't lie, would he speak at all?
Read the article. I have actual access and dont rely on headlines.

This is a damning amount of detail:

Details Emerge on U.N. Workers Accused of Aiding Hamas Raid
Israeli officials have presented evidence they say ties workers at a Palestinian aid agency in Gaza to violence during the Hamas-led attack on Israel.

By Ronen Bergman and Patrick Kingsley

The reporters reviewed intelligence documents related to the Israeli allegations and interviewed officials briefed on their contents.
As the articles state, both the NYT and WSJ articles were written based on the same 6 page document that Channel 4, Sky News and Financial Times all reviewed and found to contain no proof of the claims made. Israel has not provided anyone with proof of their claims. Not the WSJ, not the NYT, not the White House, and not even the UNRWA. Everyone received only the dossier, no proof was shared. No evidence could be corroborated because no evidence was presented in the first place.
 

LOST IN THE SAUCE

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Furthermore, the WSJ article has received scrutiny for being written by an IDF member with close ties to an IDF social media strategist/propagandist.

The NYT had already come under scrutiny previously from even it's own staff for the journalistic malpractice and propaganda puff piece that also presented an Israeli claim with no proof, where even the family of one of the featured victims has called out the NYT for purposefully misquoting them in the article to cover their lie about a rape they claim occured.

These articles don't even claim to do more than describe the accusations listed in the dossier. No one has seen the "intercepts" themselves. No hard evidence was presented, only accusations. No one is denying this but Nap.

Nap knows all of this. He has responded to a lot of these sources already previously in this thread. He is continuing to lie and bloviate because he has nothing else. Any time Nap is pushed into a corner he can't bullshyt his way out of, he'll start the gish gallop and dump several posts in a row to drown out the sound of his pathetic floundering. This is a sick man. He just. can't. help. himself. :snoop:
Look at him go.
giphy.gif
 

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Israel overplayed its hand.

It called a shot like Babe Ruth and when Hamas is still up and running if they lay waste to Rafah, then what?

Bomb the rubble?

After that mission accomplished debacle, the Neo hawks made sure to make the war on terror vague with no outcomes or timetables.

I see why Biden and co are backing off.

Israel fascist never had a plan for the hostages or ending this beyond chest thumping propaganda
 

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This is just more bloviation. The sources said the dossier contained no evidence of the accusations, which is what I said.
Wrong. Your own SKY NEWS link said “there’s evidence but doesn’t directly link to UNRWA"

That like saying “The hijackers were saudis but that doesn’t connect to the kingdom of Saudi Arabia” :laff:
I claimed nothing more, nothing less. You are just making noise that you think sounds like a rebuttal. Everyone can see you floundering.
You have to believe that everything the IDF does is fake to behave this way.
No one claimed they omitted evidence.
YOU did
The US made the immediate decision to cut funding without seeing evidence,
This is, again, incorrect
before any investigation was done. This is the claim that was made by Blinken himself. This remains uncontested by Nap, and he has chosen to fight ghosts instead. More bloviation, more lies, more bullshyt from Nap. If Nap couldn't lie, would he speak at all?
Mind you, Israel had this evidence within days of the attack and it came out after the ICJ ruling. You can argue it’s politically motivated, as you Hamas supporters have, but you can’t deny the statutory claims of the involvement of UNRWA workers.

As the articles state, both the NYT and WSJ articles were written based on the same 6 page document that Channel 4, Sky News and Financial Times all reviewed and found to contain no proof of the claims made. Israel has not provided anyone with proof of their claims. Not the WSJ, not the NYT, not the White House, and not even the UNRWA. Everyone received only the dossier, no proof was shared.
Heres your sky news link:

:gucci:


temp-Image-IYRVp7.avif


This is olympic levels of obfuscation :laff:

“we didn’t see the Israeli intelligence intercepts themselves but even if it happened…it doesn’t matter” :troll:

:mindblown:


No evidence could be corroborated because no evidence was presented in the first place.

This is a contradictory claim. Evidence was presented but you’re claiming it doesn’t meet your moving goalposts of standards.

Dont worry fam we already found that the UNRWA HQ had Hamas tunnels under it and the building itself was sinking from the weight of the illegal tunneling. :ufdup:



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Furthermore, the WSJ article has received scrutiny for being written by an IDF member with close ties to an IDF social media strategist/propagandist.

So?

There are several UNRWA workers named and their job roles exposed who participated in the attacks with multiple levels of corroboration. A few of them are dead now.

Go fabricate that :camby:
The NYT had already come under scrutiny previously from even it's own staff for the journalistic malpractice and propaganda puff piece that also presented an Israeli claim with no proof, where even the family of one of the featured victims has called out the NYT for purposefully misquoting them in the article to cover their lie about a rape they claim occured.
This is an irrelevant point.

Thats like initial reporting about 9/11 getting corrected about a tangential issue.


These articles don't even claim to do more than describe the accusations listed in the dossier.
So?
No one has seen the "intercepts" themselves. No hard evidence was presented, only accusations. No one is denying this but Nap.
You haven’t even seen the dossier but you’re claiming a source that you prefer claims “even if the claims were true it doesn’t matter” :laff: :mjlol:

Your source LITERALLY said this :dahell:
Nap knows all of this. He has responded to a lot of these sources already previously in this thread. He is continuing to lie and bloviate because he has nothing else. Any time Nap is pushed into a corner he can't bullshyt his way out of, he'll start the gish gallop and dump several posts in a row to drown out the sound of his pathetic floundering. This is a sick man. He just. can't. help. himself. :snoop:
Look at him go.

You’re bringing up other stories in other newspapers to excuse THIS story and THIS corroboration :mjlol:
 
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