The Official Israel-Gaza Thread

[Voice of Reason]

A real tail wagging the dog situation.

It's not surprising to see US supporting it's ally and not caring about international community's reaction. But to keep being openly complicit in committing genocide when it's hurting you domestically and tanking you in the polls, during an election year, is bewildering.

Why would an administration of a global superpower sacrifice itself for smaller ally that is essentially it's vassal state? The American President is falling on his sword just to run interference for Israel

I'm giving Biden a pass for lying about beheaded babies, since he's struggles with completing thoughts and sentences. But for a president to openly dispute death counts is fukking despicable. Why even put yourself in that position for another country?

Read this right now

 

[mitter]

there's sufficiently supportive... and then there's closing your eyes while enabling weeks of objectively disproportionate, region inflaming fukkery without a plan ijs

You and I are not the ones who decide what "sufficiently supportive" means. The people who decide are the people whose money decides who gets elected and who runs the country.

 

[42 Monks]

You and I are not the ones who decide what "sufficiently supportive" means. The people who decide are the people whose money decides who gets elected and who runs the country.

you're right there's laws of land warfare lmao.... yal gotta stop acting like this whole war thing is new.

and the people elected also literally enabled this obvious dysfunction to perpetuate while accountability for even simple things like the oct 7th systemic failures gets ignored. if those same people are calling the shots, while also actively worsening the situation, then its an ongoing failure not a solution. there has been no internal corrective action.

creating and affirming more regional enemies by disregarding established guidelines in warfare is plainly stupid - and supporting that is far beyond what's demanded from any sort of alliance.

you gotta pretty much talk yourself into complicating this further

 

[mitter]

you're right there's laws of land warfare lmao.... yal gotta stop acting like this whole war thing is new.

and the people elected also literally enabled this obvious dysfunction to perpetuate while accountability for even simple things like the oct 7th systemic failures gets ignored. if those same people are calling the shots, while also actively worsening the situation, then its an ongoing failure not a solution. there has been no internal corrective action.

creating and affirming more regional enemies by disregarding established guidelines in warfare is plainly stupid - and supporting that is far beyond what's demanded from any sort of alliance.

you gotta pretty much talk yourself into complicating this further

It doesn't matter how plainly stupid anything is. The first priority of a politician is to get elected.

 

[42 Monks]

It doesn't matter how plainly stupid anything is. The first priority of a politician is to get elected.

there aren't too many voting bodies on the planet that can immediately halt all foreign policy decisions such as a financial and moral blank check or ongoing military actions lol. people are along for the ride, and the complaints will absolutely be felt later.

so again, sufficient support generally resides within established guidelines within the international community. on top of that, the range of motion sufficient support describes could be seen in granular detail when it comes to countries dealing with insurgencies or even the pick&choose materiel support various countries chose to provide to ukraine - as well as the usage case/limitations of such support.

you have to actively put your thinking in a vacuum and ignore a ton of other recent and comparative history in order for any of this current situation to seem normal. for example, israel would not be getting smoke from all the way in yemen right now if they followed any sort of reasonable counter insurgency playbook. to go further, other countries removing their support of israel's commercial industries will require the US to replace that bandwidth as well.

 

[mastermind]

Unprovoked??

Here’s the goofy thing, go back to his posts immediately after the attacks. He shared a lot of pro palestinin stuff and even said it wasn’t right but it didn’t just pop up.

The second Biden said some pro Israel shyt, his whole demeanor shifted. He ain’t a serious poster and been in this thread being the cac mamba.

 

[Pressure]

Here’s the goofy thing, go back to his posts immediately after the attacks. He shared a lot of pro palestinin stuff and even said it wasn’t right but it didn’t just pop up.

The second Biden said some pro Israel shyt, his whole demeanor shifted. He ain’t a serious poster and been in this thread being the cac mamba.

You seem to struggle with the fact that I can laugh at the Israeli military getting caught with their pants down.

I can also allow my views to evolve once they moved from attacking military outposts to a primarily civilian targeted attack.

I’ve been very clear that I don’t agree with Israeli occupation and believe they need to have their own internationally recognized country.

But I’m not working through some naïveté where I didn’t recognize this type of disproportionate response is exactly what was going to happen based on all the rhetoric we’ve heard under the recently formed Israeli government.

This is the path Hamas chose to take Gaza down. When it’s all said and done the question will remain, was it worth it?

It is what it is, but their issues aren’t anywhere near the top of my concerns in America.

 

[Pull Up the Roots]

Literally evidence all over..but u will call it bias even if US officials tell you.

What is a human shield and how has Hamas been accused of using them? | Israel-Gaza war | The Guardian

Israel claims group has placed command centre under hospital and is deliberately shielding behind Palestinian civilians

amp.theguardian.com

Hamas tried to send fighters to Egypt in ambulances for wounded Gazans — US official | The Times of Israel

www.timesofisrael.com

Bomb found in Red Crescent ambulance

A Palestinian Ambulance Was Found Carrying a Bomb Near Jerusalem on Friday. The Bomb Was Hidden Under a Gurney on Which a Sick Palestinian Child Was Lying. The

www.haaretz.com

Hamas tried to hijack ambulances during Gaza war

www.smh.com.au

Hamas Quietly Admits It Fired Rockets from Civilian Areas

The Gaza terrorist group offers that "mistakes were made" in its summer conflict with Israel.

www.theatlantic.com

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-182027/

A ton of evidence, I know you are a lost brother but this is moreso for the other people who just wants to be educated.

Plus unlike u, I got real war experience and I seen this shyt with my own eyes of terrorists hiding shyt in mosques and schools.

The UN, B'Tselem, Amnesty International and other human rights groups have also docmented how the IDF has used Palestinians as human shields. This isn't some tit-for-tat game, and we shouldn't treat it like one. The point is, Palestinians shouldn't be treated like this whether it's Hamas or Israel. And that screaming HUMAN SHIELDS as a justification for indiscriminate bombing is flimsy and inhumane.

Israeli forces use five Palestinian children as human shields

Israeli forces have used at least five Palestinian children as human shields in the first part of 2023, according to documentation collected by DCIP.

www.dci-palestine.org

Palestinian children tortured, used as shields by Israel: U.N.

A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces on Thursday of mistreating Palestinian children, including by torturing those in custody and using others as human shields.

www.reuters.com

Israel is once again using Palestinians as human shields

Once a standard Israeli military tactic, the practice was made illegal under international law in 2005. But growing evidence shows Israel is using human shields again with impunity

www.middleeasteye.net

https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/mde151432002en.pdf

https://www.btselem.org/topic/human_shields

Over the years, the military practiced an official policy of using Palestinians as human shields, ordering them to carry out military activities that put their lives in jeopardy: Palestinians were forced to remove suspicious objects from roads, tell other Palestinians to come out and surrender themselves, physically shield soldiers while they fired, and more. In 2005, the High Court of Justice ruled the practice unlawful, yet soldiers still occasionally used Palestinians as human shields, particularly during military operations. In most cases, no one was held accountable.

 

[Pressure]

Unprovoked??

Then you think it’s justified.

 

[mastermind]

I can also allow my views to evolve once they moved from attacking military outposts to a primarily civilian targeted attack.

Negro, we knew about the hostages the day it happened.

Your views changed as soon as Biden—and maybe Clyburn—gave you your talking points.

 

[Pressure]

Negro, we knew about the hostages the day it happened.

Your views changed as soon as Biden—and maybe Clyburn—gave you your talking points.

Why lie?

US still going to support Israel. We aren’t going to risk the destabilization of their closest regional partner.

After Israel wraps this up there will be far more discussion on the state of things, but right now they’re going to get to satisfy their bloodlust.

@GnauzBookOfRhymes gets it

 

[mastermind]

Yea, lying

 

[Orbital-Fetus]

And this is the problem we have here and what has eroded this entire discussion.

You and others here seem hell bent on this false premise that Israel has no autonomy and will merely do whatever the US says.

Let me be as clear as possible with your simple ass. The ONLY reason Israel exists is because the US wills it so.

For my curiousity, is the belief here that if the US merely threatens to publicly withold funding that Israel would just fall in line?

*curiosity* *withhold*

Anyway, yes. What don't you understand about that?

I am 100% denying there was anything the US could have done to stop them from launching a counter offensive to the Hamas terrorist attack.

The US could have mitigated Israel's response. Easily.

“The Americans insisted and we are not in a place where we can refuse them. We rely on them for planes and military equipment. What are we supposed to do? Tell them no?”

The US does have leverage over Israel. You can't seriously be denying that.

This.

That wasn't your original claim, but even then I would say yes, the US could have threatened to stop supplying the iron dome, end any funding, and end their "special relationship" with Israel, and they would have no choice but to back down. This would never happen, but the US does have the leverage to do it.

Israel is ass out without the US, surrounded by their enemies, and has been the bully on the block for decades and decades. All parties involved are aware of this.

Took the words out of my mouth, pause.

They already have American weapons though .

You think they last forever? They had to ask for a reup a week into the counter offensive. Why do you think Ukraine needs constant rearmament? You on some real dumb shyt, huh?

I’m just imagining the collective response on October 8th if Biden holds a press conference saying, “we will pull all aide if Israel retaliates to the Hamas attack.”

Would never be said publicly but behind closed doors it's a good starting point for any negotiations the US decides to have with Israel. Do you not think past door #1?

Wait, Hamas commits a terrorist attack unprovoked

Gonna have to stop you right there, buddy... This didn't start a month ago.

They’re probably going off of intel they got from the Hamas members they tortured. And there’s over 200. They probably got them spread out all over Gaza Strip.

Hamas' Supreme Intelligence would not allow the Allah's Winged Warriors to go into battle with any information that would help the infidels. So even if holy super soldiers are captured, the sheer strength, will and faith of these immortals will speak nothing but to the colonizers.

IDF: Where are you from?
Hamas Super Soldier: New Jersey. You?

 

[Pressure]

Let me be as clear as possible with your simple ass. The ONLY reason Israel exists is because the US wills it so.

Present day Israel exists as a collective decision by the west.

Gonna have to stop you right there, buddy... This didn't start a month ago.

I’m aware. Interrupted my vacation plans when they were shooting rockets to Tel Aviv earlier this year

Would never be said publicly but behind closed doors it's a good starting point for any negotiations the US decides to have with Israel. Do you not think past door #1?

I do, and I think that card can only be pulled once and if you were to pull it you do so when you have both sides as the negotiating table.

Unless we think it’s a valid option to allow Israel and its millions of citizens to be killed.

 

[Pressure]

Yea, lying

What does me understanding why Hamas decided to go the path they took have to do with me recognizing the obvious response no matter how absurd it is.

I personally think they’re all on a dummy mission led by equally ideological leadership who doesn’t actually care about seeing an actual solution.