The Official Israel-Gaza Thread

[The Guru]

 

[TLOL is back]

Yes, it sure can paint a thousand words... Especially when it is inaccurate.

We can begin the first portion -- the green was not "Palestinian land" -- the vast majority of that was owned by the British.

The second portion -- Was a UN partition plan and had nothing to do with what the actual borders of Israel and the territories. This was just included to paint the mirage of Israel growing.

The third portion -- Calls the green areas "Palestine" when the Palestinians openly rejected those areas as their own, and were in fact happy to be part of Egypt and Jordan.

Your map, of course, does not show the numerous Israeli land concessions it made for peace.

Here is a map that doesn't have to lie to get its point across:

Israel has been getting smaller and smaller over the past few decades. The reason of course, is because it desperately desires peace instead of war. This same desire is not shared by its neighbors unfortunately.

 

[nomoreneveragain]

Anon said they going after Isreal

 

[ThatKidBlackHippy]

When a foreign force blocks weapons from entering your territory, and nothing more, you are under an embargo. Not occupation.



Which is what constitutes an occupation.

Resorting to semantics and expositions as usual.

Might wanna look at these:

In January 2012, the spokesperson for the UN Secretary General stated that under resolutions of the Security Council and the General Assembly, the UN still regards Gaza to be part of the Occupied Palestinian Territory

source - Office of the Spokesperson for the Secretary-General

24th April 2012 – UK Foreign Secretary William Hague:
"I strongly condemn the Israeli government’s decision yesterday to turn three illegal outposts in the West Bank into settlements. I urged the Israeli government in my statement on 5 April to remove - not legalise - outposts across the West Bank."

Furthermore, I would like to refer you to specific serious concerns raised by the International Court of Justice (2004) - with relevance to the ‘security barrier’ - which was viewed with alarm by the international community. Incidentally the reference to the illegality of settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem was also reinforced when the International Court of Justice also found the following (indeed the EU supported the UN vote pertaining to the ‘security barrier’):

* That the separation barrier is intended to assist the settlements, the establishment of which violates Article 49 of the Convention. Also, the court pointed out that the restrictions placed on the local population located between the barrier and the Green Line are liable to lead to abandonment of the land, which also constitutes a violation of Article 49. In addition, the opinion stated that taking control of private land to build the barrier injured private property owners, and thus violated Articles 46 and 52 of the Hague Regulations of 1907 and of Article 53 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

* The illegality of the barrier under international human rights law. In this context, the court stated unequivocally, and contrary to the position held by Israel, that international human rights law applies in its entirety in occupied territory, along with humanitarian law. The court ruled that the separation barrier violates rights set forth in conventions to which Israel is party. The court mentioned the rights to freedom of movement and the right against invasion of privacy of home and family, which are enshrined in Articles 12 and 17 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, and the right to work, to an adequate standard of living, health, and education, which are enshrined in Articles 6, 11, 12, and 13 of the International covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural rights.

Since you apparently love these so much ...

The West Bank and East Jerusalem is occupied Palestine (recognized by 132 nations in the world including India, China, Russia, Brazil, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand and Iceland). Palestine is still illegally held and sadly Israel has ignored the ruling of the International Court of Justice (subsequently supported by the UN and EU) with respect to the "separation barrier". This "wall" is 3 times the length of the Berlin Wall.
UNESCO’s recognition of Palestine last year was supported by France, Spain, Ireland, Belgium. Norway, Greece and other European nations.
International law and UN Resolutions (over which there are over 150) are ignored by Israel.

http://unispal.un.org/pdfs/OCHA_IsrSettlementPolicies.pdf.

*** UN Security Council Resolution 478 (1980) of 20 August 1980 - BINDING
The Security Council, recalling its resolution 476 (1980); reaffirming again that the acquisition of territory by force is inadmissible; deeply concerned over the enactment of a "basic law" in the Israeli Knesset proclaiming a change in the character and status of the Holy City of Jerusalem, with its implications for peace and security; noting that Israel has not complied with resolution 476 (1980); reaffirming its determination to examine practical ways and means, in accordance with the relevant provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, to secure the full implementation of its resolution 476 (1980), in the event of non-compliance by Israel ; Censures in the strongest terms the enactment by Israel of the "basic law" on Jerusalem and the refusal to comply with relevant Security Council resolutions;

S/RES/478 (1980) of 20 August 1980

But the Palestinians are the terrorists? Israel's the victim?

Even if I were to humor you and entertain your absurd rationale, Israel does not have the privilege to claim any moral high ground considering the staggering difference in civilian casualties.

But you don't care, for you do not see it for what it is. Can you stop terrorism by bombing to ruins a sealed-off crowded territory of refugees? Is that how you get peace? Did that happen after 1,400 people were killed in 2008-2009? The Israelis who genuinely want peace see this for what it is - an outrageous attack that will only lead to more and more violence on both sides. You take the Likud stance tho, so hey.

"My logic would be to first evaluate the evidence before believing a claim. So far there is a claim made by a Palestinian organization with evidence that approximates to about zero (rounding up). This is called critical thinking."

Now would be a good time to take your own advice.

I can take solace in the fact that people who support "Palestine" have a combined IQ of approximately 49, which is why they refer to every Israeli airstrike targeting Hamas as "the massacre of an entire population" and make comparisons to Nazi Germany and Apartheid South Africa. I only hope that you guys are at least intelligent enough to work as janitors, because otherwise, I'm not sure how you're going to survive out there.

It's okay, Nazi Germany and Apartheid South Africa supporters resented the comparisons between their inhumanity and vernacularity with past examples of iniquities and atrocities carried out as well. And while it is kind of you to feign concern for my potential occupations, you should be more concerned with how the innocent Palestinian people (that Israel is murdering in cold blood) is going to survive as the government you champion continue their transgressions upon humanity.

 

[CBSkyline]

You gotta be fukcing kidding me: List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel, 2012 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Did you even fully comprehend what I said, or did you just automatically go into mode

Your link shows all of Hamas attacks on Israel, but only a few of the events that caused those rockets to be launch in retaliation, thus proving my point for me.

Hamas then goes on to retaliate after more then 500 failed tries and they get labelled as the only bad party involved in the situation.

Now for some reality, which I must admit probably won't persuaded you much.

Source: Breaking Truce, Israeli Strikes Kill "Moderate" Hamas Military Chief, Palestinian Civilians in Gaza

Israel is threatening to launch a ground invasion of the Gaza Strip after breaking an informal ceasefire with an ongoing series of deadly attacks. At least 13 Palestinian civilians have been killed, including a baby and a mother pregnant with twins, in addition to more than 100 wounded.
Israel says it has launched the strikes to prevent Palestinian rocket fire, but the latest round of violence began last week when Israeli troops killed a young boy in Gaza. The situation has escalated since Saturday, when Palestinian militants fired at an Israeli military vehicle near the Israel-Gaza border. After Palestinian militant groups agreed to an informal truce on Monday, Israel broke two days of quiet with Wednesday’s attack. Israel’s attack on Gaza marks its largest since the U.S.-backed operation that killed more than 1,300 Palestinians nearly four years ago.

Israel are clearly the aggressors in this situation, and every time Hamas or Palestine militants respond with those low tech, inaccurate rockets, they give Israel an excuse to keep right on instigating. Here is the real kicker, even when Palestine goes quiet, doesn't respond to the attacks, and accepts a truce; Israel still tries to bait them and attack.

As we on the coli would say: It's so demonic friends

 

[Pazzy]

so all of this is basically a holy war over religion or words said in a book? you know what's funny about this? it's strange seeing how america and the western world all acts like this shyt is normal and rational but yet they turn around looking down at iran, afganistan and etc for what some people are doing. the hypocrisy is amazing.

like these guys are literally fighting over fukking beliefs.

 

[Type Username Here]

so all of this is basically a holy war over religion or words said in a book? you know what's funny about this? it's strange seeing how america and the western world all acts like this shyt is normal and rational but yet they turn around looking down at iran, afganistan and etc for what some people are doing. the hypocrisy is amazing.

like these guys are literally fighting over fukking beliefs.

That's why we should sit back and let them destroy themselves.

 

[No1]

so all of this is basically a holy war over religion or words said in a book? you know what's funny about this? it's strange seeing how america and the western world all acts like this shyt is normal and rational but yet they turn around looking down at iran, afganistan and etc for what some people are doing. the hypocrisy is amazing.

like these guys are literally fighting over fukking beliefs.

No it's not. Many of the original Zionists weren't even all that religious. Guys like Arafat weren't either (damn it's been awhile since I studied this stuff). It comes down to this, both sides keep making maximalist demands and that's why nothing will ever get done. There's also "racism" involved as well.

But it's comes down to this, Palestinians keep demanding the right to return, and Israel is like :obamaword: and we demand that you acknowledge our right to exist, etc. That demand for the right to return is why they will never have peace.

 

[MikelArteta]

Sirens blaring in the Holy city of Jerusalem

What was that old dudes name, that looked like sauron in the lord of the rings who got merked like 5 years ago?

 

[FAH1223]

so all of this is basically a holy war over religion or words said in a book? you know what's funny about this? it's strange seeing how america and the western world all acts like this shyt is normal and rational but yet they turn around looking down at iran, afganistan and etc for what some people are doing. the hypocrisy is amazing.

like these guys are literally fighting over fukking beliefs.

this isn't a religious issue...

 

[Type Username Here]

this isn't a religious issue...

But it is.

 

[FAH1223]

But it is.

there's overtones but the core of it isn't about islam vs. judaism

Israell is a not a jewish state per se. The religous jews still only make up 1/3 of the population. Israel was created by millitant athiests from the Jewish ghettos of Europe, do you know that the first settlements had pig farms? Pig farms only reduced in number when Jews from Arab countries became the majority in the 60's. The majority of major isreali politicians and generals from 1948 till recently were athiests.

Moshe dayan, Shimon Peres, Ehud Barak, Sharon, Menachem Begin, Rabin, Shamir, David Ben Gurion the first prime minister and Golda Mier were/are all athiests or agnostics definitely not practicers of Judaism.

Even Netanyahu is from the same background, but tones down his athiesm to appeal to the growing number of religous jews. Tzipi livni and Olmert do not hide their athiesm but are proud of it.

The Real Rabin / by Uri Avnery

another from a book:

"Even atheist and socialist Israelis like David Ben-Gurion, Moshe Dayan, and Golda Meir were marked by the stories and legends of King David and the prophets. In other words, their lives had been shaped by Hebron." Giulio Meotti, A New Shoah: The Untold Story of Israel's Victims of Terrorism, page 113.

they'll count as jews ethnically, i guess.... but religious wise, forget it. Israel has one of the biggest percentage of atheist/agnostic populations in a country in the world.

 

[Type Username Here]

there's overtones but the core of it isn't about islam vs. judaism

Israell is a not a jewish state per se. The religous jews still only make up 1/3 of the population. Israel was created by millitant athiests from the Jewish ghettos of Europe, do you know that the first settlements had pig farms? Pig farms only reduced in number when Jews from Arab countries became the majority in the 60's. The majority of major isreali politicians and generals from 1948 till recently were athiests.

Moshe dayan, Shimon Peres, Ehud Barak, Sharon, Menachem Begin, Rabin, Shamir, David Ben Gurion the first prime minister and Golda Mier were/are all athiests or agnostics definitely not practicers of Judaism.

Even Netanyahu is from the same background, but tones down his athiesm to appeal to the growing number of religous jews. Tzipi livni and Olmert do not hide their athiesm but are proud of it.

The Real Rabin / by Uri Avnery

another from a book:

"Even atheist and socialist Israelis like David Ben-Gurion, Moshe Dayan, and Golda Meir were marked by the stories and legends of King David and the prophets. In other words, their lives had been shaped by Hebron." Giulio Meotti, A New Shoah: The Untold Story of Israel's Victims of Terrorism, page 113.

they'll count as jews ethnically, i guess.... but religious wise, forget it. Israel has one of the biggest percentage of atheist/agnostic populations in a country in the world.

I will address your points when I get home and not on my phone. There is truth to what you are saying but I'll show you the multitude of religious reasons you are leaving out. Hebrews and Arabs ARE the same ethnicity. There is a multitude of scientific evidence to connect them.

 

[FAH1223]

I will address your points when I get home and not on my phone. There is truth to what you are saying but I'll show you the multitude of religious reasons you are leaving out. Hebrews and Arabs ARE the same ethnicity. There is a multitude of scientific evidence to connect them.

there's no doubt about what you're saying

but i'm merely highlighting that those that point to religion as a sole talking point about this conflict are severely mistaken. Of course Jerusalem is the center of everything, a holy site in both religions, conflicts of interests in the city... shid is real. But this is more about land, racism, mis trust, and legacies of the 20th century more than things that happened centuries ago

 

[Jx2]

The hacktivist group Anonymous is angry at Israel, and not just for launching deadly airstrikes on Gaza. Members say the Israeli government "crossed a line in the sand" when it threatened to sever internet and other telecommunications in Gaza.
In a press statement published online, Anonymous issued a warning to the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) and the Israeli government, ordering them to not shut down the internet in the occupied territories and to cease and desist from their “terror upon the innocent people of Palestine.”
In a tweet, the collective condemned Israel, saying it has broken 65 UN resolutions with no consequences. It then compared the situation to Iraq, which was “invaded, bombed, and destroyed” for breaking two resolutions.
Anonymous’ online statement warned the Israeli government: “Like all the other evil governments that have faced our rage, you will not survive it unscathed.”
The statement then turned into a message of support for the people of Gaza saying that “We will do everything in our power to hinder the evil forces of the IDF arrayed against you.”
"Know that Anonymous stands with you in this fight. We will use all our resources to make certain you stay connected to the internet and remain able to transmit your experiences to the world,” the statement said.
And it seems their words are being matched with actions.
Anonymous has put together a “Gaza Care Package,” which contains instructions in Arabic and English to assist Palestinians in the event that the Israeli government threatens their internet connection.
The package also includes information on evading IDF surveillance, along with first aid information.
The collective encouraged Palestinians to download and share the package with others. Those behind the project have vowed to expand and improve the document in coming days.
“No matter how dark it may seem, no matter how alone and abandoned you may feel – know that tens of thousands of us in Anonymous are with you and working tirelessly around the clock to bring you every aid and assistance that we can,” the statement said.
Members are taking a more direct approach too, by contacting Israeli forces directly.
A tweet from an Anonymous account to an IDF spokesperson warned, “It would be wise of you to expect us.”
Anonymous has already hacked a number of Israeli websites, including advocate-israel.com. Visitors to the page see a scrolling banner which says the site was hacked by the “MexicanH Team.”
A statement on the webpage says, “Stop bombing Gaza. Millions of Israelis and Palestinians are lying awake, exposed and terrified.”

Anonymous warns Israel: 'No one cuts internet on our watch!' — RT

They're back and ready to