The Official FIFA World Cup Thread - QATAR 2022

[The ADD]

 

[nyknick]

There are two things I don't get from this game :
1. Why did ARG not play possession football to put the game to sleep when they were 2-0 up and the Dutch subbed in Weghorst and De Jong. We saw how easy it was for them to do so in the second half of the ET.
2. Why did the Dutch stop kick and rushing in ET while that strategy was killing the ARG defense. They had them shook, fouling near the box, clearing the ball mindlessly, literally forgetting how to play footy lol

I thought Van Gaal had outcoached Scaloni at the end of regular time but he legit lost it in ET. There was definitely room for the Dutch to pass today.

Well one and two are related. Once the Dutch dropped off, Argies were able to get back on the ball. It's always easy to say "they should've played like that the whole game", but it's also dependent on the opposition set up.

I'm assuming LVG believed they were a lock to win the penalties

 

[LuuqMaan]

Tite said why he went 5th. Neymar has a history of going 5th. It is an established norm for the best to take the 5th. What would there be the need for any additional discussion in this case.

Tite: Are you up for taking a pen.

Neymar: Yes.

Tite: 5th as usual

Neymar: Yes

would be the most complicated realistic based-on-what-we-know convo.

Any extended convo about shifting him around or unique special order of takers for this game is conjecture. Fantasy based on nothing.

As for managers listening to players .. that depends .. You have Ole on one side, Mou, Simeone and LvG on the other. None of you bambaclats know enough about Tite to give insight into his normative behaviour and penchant for in-situ change. It's a blind narrative based on superstar vs manager BUT that does not apply like that in soccer. See Ronny wasting away on two benches this year for an example.

You just agreed with the points of Neymar having the option to agree or not.

The only ‘established’ rule is the one where the manager decides to have his best player take a penalty first or last.

I don’t see what you are arguing here.

 

[beejus]

This pic is one of those ones you take photos your whole life and you hope to get.

 

[thatrapsfan]

Whats with this heel turn?

What did he say to Davids and LVG?

 

[thatrapsfan]

double post

 

[HabitualChiller]

is there a GOAT ahlete who isnt a POS? maybe Roger

Gretzsky?

 

[EndGame]

Croatia ain't no much different than Netherlands in terms of quality. They'll probably look to take it to penalties with Argentina.

 

[null]

You just agreed with the points of Neymar having the option to agree or not.

He has a history of going 5th. He cannot choose where he goes. The manager submits the list to the ref.

Penalty taking strategy is not Neymar's decision. It is the managers and the manager said Neymar goes 5th.

Neymar coud refuse to take one but he cannot change his position. And why should he? he has a history of taking the 5th.

The only ‘established’ rule is the one where the manager decides to have his best player take a penalty first or last.

I don’t see what you are arguing here.

Does Neymar have history of going 5th Y/N?

Does Tite say that Neymar is his best and therefore should take the 5th Y/N?

What additional extended conversation outside of this have you dreamt up? Spell it out ...

 

[LuuqMaan]

Ok bruh

 

[247Alex]

This pic is one of those ones you take photos your whole life and you hope to get.

dumfries gonna fukk up lautaro when they get back to milan lol

 

[null]

boiled down question: "spell out what they in the context of history and management's own rules would have discussed and why?". spell it out.

Ok bruh

Ok bruh

 

[African_brehda]

quite aside from everything already mentioned when your team takes the 2nd kick your 5th penalty is the 10th penalty overall and as such is the sudden death one.

that's even higher pressure because if you miss that is it. go home. no further chances. nada. entire country failed and you are indelibly in the history books.

"It's not the first time Neymar has waited to take a penalty. Brazil's World Cup tie against Chile in 2014 was also decided by a shootout, with Neymar taking the fifth and final spot kick. And he took the last penalty in the win against Germany in the 2016 Olympics final.

Tite HIMSELF explains TODAY:

"The fifth penalty is the decisive one," Brazil boss Tite told reporters [after the Croatian defeat]. "There is more pressure and the players who are best prepared should take that penalty kick. The only disorganisation in our team was that we did not score more than one goal during the game.""

Neymar slammed by fans for Brazil penalty decision in World Cup catastrophe


"Many assumed that the 30-year-old was planning on taking the fifth, and usually decisive penalty, something Tite confirmed post-match.
‘He is the fifth and decisive penalty taker,’ the 61-year-old said.
‘The player who has more quality and the mentality to step up then is under greatest pressure.’

The tactic is nothing new to football"

Brazil boss explains why Neymar didn't take a penalty against Croatia

But all that changes after the team misses one. It’s all good when the team is scoring all, and you take the decisive fifth penalty.

Look at the Netherlands penalty shootout for example. After missing the first two kicks, does it still make sense for the star man to wait and play the fifth penalty? No

Now look at the Brazil shootout, that Marquinhos penalty was do or die, it didn’t make any sense for Neymar to not take it. In that situation, that was the fifth penalty. You score and hope your keeper keeps you in the game.

I’m not trying to argue, I’m just pointing out the flaw in the logic

 

[null]

Nah breh the manager has an idea of takers but asks the players, someone of Neymar's stature can definitely state when he wants to go, hell I've seen players being called back mid walk to the spot

the manager decides the strategy and Tite already said what his strategy is. why the extra guesswork?

I found this paper in the journal of medical sciences that analysed past pen comps and concluded reverse order is best

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02640410050074331

"Consequently, we report a probability analysis of the penalty shoot-out in soccer from which we identify the following pre- and post-game strategies. The best five ranked penalty takers from the on-field players should be assigned to the first five penalty kicks in their reverse order of ability. That is, the fifth best penalty taker should take the first penalty kick, the fourth best penalty taker should take the second penalty kick, and so on."

might be crap but that is the common convention. if all penalty places were equal then first (as it is always taken) would be better and in general the earlier the better.

the fact that 1st vs. 5th is even a conversation i.e "most likely to happen" vs." least likely to happen" (where 5th can miss out altogether) shows that the other merits for 5th are significant.

according to the paper above when best penalty taker goes 5th the team wins more.

 

[cobra]

Whats with this heel turn?

What did he say to Davids and LVG?

LVG has been shytting on argentina for a long time
said riquelme was mid