Essential The Official ESPN Insider Thread (ESPN+)

Skooby

Alone In My Zone
Supporter
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
25,228
Reputation
10,282
Daps
59,799
Reppin
The Cosmos

Should Bucs draft Mariota or Winston? By NFL Front Office

Mark Dominik serves as our general manager, Herm Edwards as our head coach, Louis Riddikk as our director of pro personnel, Aaron Schatz as our director of analytics and Mel Kiper as our director of college scouting.

Mark Dominik (general manager): I'm stating the obvious here, but our pick at No. 1 has to be either Jameis Winston or Marcus Mariota. We aren't entertaining any trade offers. It is too important that we solidify the quarterback position long-term, and even though both of these guys present some concerns, I feel like both have the potential to be really good quarterbacks in the NFL.

I have a pretty strong idea of which one I prefer already, but let's talk through the pros and cons of each and hear everybody's recommendations.

Mel Kiper (director of college scouting): My question is this: Are we drafting a quarterback for our current coach, or are we drafting one for the next coach, and maybe the next front office? Because if we're drafting with the goal of helping the team we have to get better, and keeping our jobs, I think Winston is the pick we need to make.

Put it this way: Winston is clearly a better prospect than Mariota in terms of his ability to lead and make adjustments in an NFL offense early in his career. That's not Mariota's fault, it's just the reality of the system these guys come from. Winston was simply executing more advanced concepts at FSU. I also think Winston is safely the better overall talent and brings that "it" factor to a team -- his ability to galvanize an offense is clear, and he's a playmaker in crunch time.

Louis Riddikk (director of pro personnel): I like both of these guys, but I would pick Winston. There are definitely character concerns with him, but if we are confident in our ability as an organization, and particularly with our coaching staff, to create the kind of positive culture and environment a kid like Winston needs off the field so that he is freed up to rise to the top on the field, which we all believe he is capable of doing, then he's the pick.

There's no doubt he's ready mentally to play the position in the NFL and from a physical standpoint he's already begun to address the few negatives you can find in his game. Does he need to improve his delivery or his footwork at times? Sure. But find me a quarterback in the NFL whose delivery is perfect every single throw. It just doesn't happen, not even with the best ones. And he has shown you enough in his performance to think he'll be able to come in right away and execute an NFL offense at a high level without having to adapt things the way you would for Mariota.

Herm Edwards (head coach): When you draft a quarterback No. 1 overall, you know he's going to be the face of the franchise. That puts a burden on a lot of people, including the player, and this organization has gotten it wrong before with a quarterback who didn't do what he needed to do off the field. Of these two guys, Mariota is the much more proven product off the field.

But as the head coach, you have to be able to say, "Trust me, I can handle him on and off the field." In the end this league is about winning, and Winston is more NFL-ready. He has run a pro-style offense. He's a better fit. Mariota is a good athlete with great intangibles, and he should be able to improve. I have no issues there. But we've got to win. If we're developing our No. 1 overall pick, then we're developing him for the guys who have our jobs next.

Kiper: I agree with Coach here. Mariota could become really good, and I'd love the opportunity to be patient with him. I just don't know if we'll get it, because I don't think he's ready now, and we could be suffering in the meantime.

So while I'll absolutely concede that Winston has shown major maturity issues off the field, I'd still rather bet on Winston's willingness to grow up than Mariota's ability to effectively run an NFL offense early on.

Aaron Schatz (director of analytics): This is a decision in which the numbers and projections offer very little help. I can tell you this: There are no statistical red flags whatsoever on either of these guys. Some have pointed to Winston's 18 interceptions from his redshirt sophomore season in 2014 as an issue, but it can be explained in part because he played a very difficult schedule of defenses. Overall, FSU's schedule was light, but that was because most of its opponents were so bad on offense that it obscured the fact that they were really strong on defense. Also, even though he ran a slow 40 time, he doesn't have negative rushing yards in college, which is a positive sign for his mobility. College stats include lost yardage due to sacks, so positive rushing yardage is significant.

Most projection models are still likely to have Mariota come out slightly better, but both players project as good NFL quarterbacks from a college production standpoint. So when the numbers don't offer a definitive answer, you need to rely upon scouting. Analytics can't tell you whether Mariota can improve at pocket passing or if Winston will avoid trouble off the field.

Dominik: I realize that the general consensus is that Winston should go No. 1, but I personally don't see it that way. I think that we should take Mariota. As we're sitting here discussing this, we have identified things that we want to correct with both players. But I feel as though the things we want to improve or develop with Mariota are correctable, whereas the things we worry about with Winston are out of our control.

I have confidence in our staff to work with Mariota on taking snaps from under center, on controlling a huddle and the other things he needs to improve upon. He has great size, arm strength, a clean release, very good athleticism that can cover for some of his weaknesses earlier in his career, but most importantly, I think he is a smart, competitive and passionate guy. People say he's quiet, but I've yet to meet anybody who doesn't think he lives and breathes football. This is a quarterback I think we can trust to improve in the areas we need him to.

Winston brings all of the attributes you want in a QB on the field, including leadership. There isn't any doubt about his work ethic, either. We can take steps to build a support system around Winston, but ultimately I have no control over what he does on his own time, and he brings with him a track record of maturity and behavioral issues. I've seen firsthand the consequences to an organization when your quarterback makes poor decisions off the field.
Riddikk: I still think Winston is the better option, but I will say this about Mariota: I think he is further along at this point coming from a quote-unquote spread offense than Robert Griffin III was when he was at Baylor. His ability to play the quarterback position on third down might be more advanced than Griffin's is right now even after three seasons in the league.

Mariota still needs to grow in all facets of the game, but to put him in the box and say he's just a spread quarterback is inaccurate. What he was asked to do at Oregon doesn't limit him, it only makes him more dangerous. His ceiling is really high. Now, I don't think he'll play at as high a level as Winston will right away, but just give him time, surround him with the right people and he'll have a very, very good career.

Dominik: What ultimately puts it over the top for me for Mariota, and I realize I'm in the minority in preferring him over Winston, is that one of the most important parts of being a successful NFL quarterback is having the entire locker room see you put the time in. There's no question to me that Mariota will be the first one in, last one out. That's how important it is to him to be a great NFL quarterback. That makes me confident he can get better at the things we need him to, and makes him less of a risk than Winston. I'd take Mariota with the No. 1 overall pick.
 

Dominique Wilkins

Georgia Dawg
Supporter
Joined
Dec 5, 2014
Messages
1,188
Reputation
330
Daps
2,432
Reppin
ATLANTA

To help readers get to know top NBA draft prospects, Insider offers a 360-degree look at many of them in a concise and thorough scouting report featuring three expert perspectives: Kevin Pelton (analytics), Fran Fraschilla (scouting) and Chad Ford (NBA front offices). Here's a look at Jahlil Okafor.

WARP projection: 2.1 (16th among players in top 100)
Comparables: J.J. Hickson (96.7), Derrick Favors (96.3), DeAndre Jordan (95.5), Kosta Koufos (94.2)
Strengths: Usage, 2P%, PF%
Weaknesses: Shoot, Block%

The analytics perspective

Okafor's shooting percentage is a statistical outlier. As detailed in my dialogue with Chad Ford on the Duke center, his WARP projection is low because his 2-point percentage gets regressed heavily to the mean. If instead we use his unregressed translation (57.6 percent), Okafor vaults to third among NCAA prospects behind D'Angelo Russell andKarl-Anthony Towns.

As it is, Okafor's projected 2-point percentage (53.5 percent) ranks fourth in my college database and is the best ever for a one-and-done prospect. While there's reason to be skeptical he'll be the league's most accurate shooter right away, Okafor has displayed a unique ability to finish around the basket and create high-percentage looks in the post. Aside from poor foul shooting, there's little question about his offensive ability. Any concerns about Okafor center on the defensive end.

From a statistical perspective, Okafor's low block rate (4.5 percent of opponents' 2-point attempts) is troubling. His projected NBA block rate (2.6 percent) would put him just outside the bottom 10 among centers in my college stats database, and only a handful of players with block rates so poor in college (Nikola Vucevic, Tyler Zeller, Jordan Hill,Spencer Hawes and surprisingly Andrew Bogut) have developed into NBA starting centers.

-- Kevin Pelton

The scouting perspective

Offensively, what makes Okafor so special is that he knows who he is as a player. Blessed with a unique combination of great agility, soft hands, keen timing and fundamentally sound footwork, he operates almost exclusively in the low post. This is his playground, even though he could operate on the perimeter effectively if he chose.

In the low post, Okafor almost always catches and looks middle. By doing this he gets to read 95 percent of the floor. When he looks over his inside shoulder, Okafor can locate where his own defender is. If the defender is on the high side, Okafor can spin baseline easily because of his uncanny footwork. And if the defender plays behind, Okafor will work the ball off the dribble to the middle of the lane, where he can use his jump hook.

Big Board: Chad Ford offers his top 30 draft prospects. Story »

Who's In/Out?Which prospects are in or out of the draft? Includes all 360 draft profiles. Story »

360 profile: Karl-Anthony TownsWhy he will be the No. 1 pick in the draft. Story »

Hall of Fame coach John Chaney used to say: "The middle is 'we,' the baseline is 'me.' " In other words, if you look to the middle, you can do more for your team and yourself. That epitomizes the effectiveness of Okafor in the low post.

Where he will continue to improve is in his already outstanding basketball acumen. He will need to be able to recognize the different defensive schemes designed specifically to stop him. But he is a quick study.

--Excerpted from Fran Fraschilla's Film Session on Jahlil Okafor

The front-office perspective

Okafor is, simply put, the most dominant freshman offensive big man I've ever covered. He has a polish in the low post that most NBA veterans lack. His incredible feel for the game, his advanced footwork in the post and his huge, soft hands make him an absolute monster on the block and a dangerous threat facing the basket. Okafor is shooting a crazy 76 percent at the rim this year and a super impressive 53 percent on his 2-point jumpers.

Add in crazy long arms, a strong NBA body with a wide base and a dominant drive to score the basketball and he seems like a no-brainer for the No. 1 pick. However, there are issues. Defensively he's a bit slow-footed and isn't the dominant rim protector most teams are looking for in the middle. And while he's a good rebounder, he isn't quite as dominant as you'd expect given his size. He lacks explosive leaping ability and tends to finish below the rim.

"There just aren't that many true centers in the league today that demand a double-team every time they touch the ball," one GM told ESPN.com. "Okafor's that type of player. The league has changed since the Olajuwon, Robinson and Ewing days. But it's changed because those sorts of players weren't available. Every coach in the league covets a player like Okafor. He might not be a great defender, but getting that sort of offensive production out of your center will really give whoever drafts him an advantage."

So while Okafor projects as an absolutely dominant offensive player, his lack of explosive athleticism and pedestrian defense give scouts pause. They want No. 1 picks to be dominant on both ends of the ball, and right now, Okafor isn't.

Still, he's been ranked No. 1 on our Big Board all year and holds a slight edge over Karl-Anthony Towns for the No. 1 pick. There's almost no way he falls out of the top three.

-- Chad Ford
 

Dominique Wilkins

Georgia Dawg
Supporter
Joined
Dec 5, 2014
Messages
1,188
Reputation
330
Daps
2,432
Reppin
ATLANTA

With piles of information at our fingertips, voting for MVP in the year 2015 feels like expert detective work. We comb through mountains of evidence, pick apart the film and weigh the possibilities with a discerning eye.

The candidates are all deserving. Stephen Curry, James Harden,LeBron James, Chris Paul, Anthony Davis and Russell Westbrook are the leading candidates, and it just so happens that they all rank at the top of the all-in-one metrics. To me, this isn't just a coincidence. In the information age, social media has accelerated the widespread adoption of advanced metrics to the point where it's almost impossible to imagine a toolbox without PER, on-off splits and win shares.

But advanced metrics weren't always such a large part of the conversation, just as everyone didn't always have a smartphone in hand.

Which are the worst MVPs, according to advanced metrics? And which players were the biggest MVP snubs?

To answer that question, I've culled three all-in-one metrics that go back to 1978, the first year that turnovers were recorded. The judges will be Justin Kubatko's win shares and Daniel Myers' box plus-minus, both of which can be found on Basketball-Reference.com, as well as ESPN Insider Kevin Pelton's WARP. I created a three-headed composite metric that averaged the players' rank in the trio of metrics to arrive at an advanced metrics vote.

So, which MVP was the biggest reach according to advanced metrics? Here are the five biggest MVP reaches, and on Tuesday we'll give you the five biggest MVP snubs.

Biggest MVP reaches
1. 2004-05, Steve Nash, Suns
WS: 15th | BPM: 19th | WARP 12th | Composite Rank: 15.3th


We can say now that Steve Nash and coach Mike D'Antoni revolutionized the game. But it doesn't mean that Nash should have won MVP that season. Nash didn't rank top 10 in any all-in-one metric, barely played much defense and he averaged just 15.5 points per game -- the lowest of any MVP in the modern era.

Nash narrowly edged Shaquille O'Neal in the vote (1,066 votes to Shaq's 1,032), but the award probably should have gone to either LeBron James, Dirk Nowitzki or Kevin Garnett (more on KG's case later) -- all of whom vastly outperformed Nash that season. Nash's candidacy was pumped up by his shooting and playmaking, but mostly because of the Phoenix Suns' top record and beautiful aesthetics that changed the sport. Like Derrick Rose's 2011 campaign, Nash's first MVP was driven by a great story rather than a serious valuation. This encapsulated the superficial "best player on the best team" MVP criteria.

2. 2000-01, Allen Iverson, 76ers
WS: 11th | BPM: 11th | WARP: 12th | Composite Rank: 13.3


Theo Ratliff and Dikembe Mutombo anchored a top-five defense, not because Iverson scored a ton of points (on a ton of shots).

Like Nash, Iverson's style of play was jaw-dropping theater, but on the whole, his candidacy didn't hold much water when you break down the numbers. Because of his inefficiency -- his 51.8 true-shooting percentage was merely average -- and a poor assist-to-turnover ratio, Iverson's candidacy rested more on the narrative of a surprising Larry Brown team in a weak Eastern Conference than actual production. That the 76ers reached the Finals doesn't validate his MVP, because a half-dozen Western Conference teams were better than the Sixers that season. This was Shaq's award.

3. 2005-06, Steve Nash, Suns
WS: 10th | BPM: 17th | WARP: 11th | Composite Rank: 12.7


Again, Nash was amazing. But in the same way that the San Antonio Spurs personify team-first basketball, it's hard to look back at the 2005-06 season and say Nash was the single best player in the league. Perhaps he was the most inspiring because he still dominated a giant's game without being able to dunk.

But contrary to the 2004-05 vote, this was especially confusing because the Suns weren't even all that great that season. They finished with the NBA's fourth-best record at 54-28 as Amar'e Stoudemire sat out with a knee injury, but Shawn Marion (21.8 points, 11.8 rebounds) was sensational, while Raja Bell and Leandro Barbosa shot a combined 44 percent from 3 on seven attempts per game. Perhaps they don't do that without Nash, but LeBron James averaged a remarkable 31.4 points, 7.0 rebounds and 6.6 assists, and elevated a far weaker Cavaliers team to 50 wins. Statistically, several players had better individual seasons than Nash.

4. 1977-78, Bill Walton, Trail Blazers
WS: 19th | BPM: 2nd | WARP: 7th | Composite Rank: 9.3

George Gervin, who played in all 82 games while averaging 27.2 points on 53.6 percent shooting and logging nearly 1,000 more minutes than Walton.

Walton and the 1977-78 Blazers were incredible while he played that season, but so were Gervin, David Thompson and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (the overwhelming advanced-metrics champ that season). The Blazers were 10-14 without Walton that season and 48-10 with him, but missing a third of the season should be a disqualifier for a value award, especially when there are so many deserving candidates. In related news, the league decided to take away the player vote in 1981.

5. 1997-98, Michael Jordan, Bulls
WS: 2nd | BPM: 7th | WARP: 6th | Composite Rank: 5.0

Gasp! Statistically, Jordan probably deserved more than five MVPs in his career, but this one was a bit of a stretch. At 34 years old, Jordan finished outside the top five in both box plus-minus as well as WARP, underlining that this was his worst full regular-season in his career up to that point.

The Bulls finished 62-20, the same record as the Utah Jazz, but Karl Malone crushed Jordan in the advanced metrics division, ranking first in both win shares and WARP while ranking second in box plus-minus to David Robinson. Malone averaged 27 points, 10 rebounds and 3.9 assists while shooting 53 percent from the floor. The voters probably wanted to issue a makeup call after handing Malone the award in 1997, but interestingly enough, the Mailman had a better case in 1998. And so did Robinson.

The rest of the top 10:

2007-08, Kobe Bryant (4.3); 2010-11, Derrick Rose (4.0); 1992-93, Charles Barkley (3.7); 1978-79, Moses Malone (3.3); 1993-94, Hakeem Olajuwon (3.0)

SEASON PLAYER WSRK BPMRK WARPRK COMP
2005 Steve Nash 15 19 12 15.3
2001 Allen Iverson 11 11 18 13.3
2006 Steve Nash 10 17 11 12.7
1978 Bill Walton 19 2 7 9.3
1998 Michael Jordan 2 7 6 5.0
2008 Kobe Bryant 4 6 3 4.3
2011 Derrick Rose 5 3 4 4.0
1993 Charles Barkley 4 3 4 3.7
1979 Moses Malone 2 6 2 3.3
1994 Hakeem Olajuwon 3 3 3 3.0
WSRk = win shares rank
BPMRk = box plus-minus rank
WARPRk = wins above replacement player rank
 

Skooby

Alone In My Zone
Supporter
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
25,228
Reputation
10,282
Daps
59,799
Reppin
The Cosmos
Winston can win early in NFL

1. Winston is as advertised, and I don't remember meeting many 21-year-olds with his level of confidence.

Winston is very charismatic and fun to be around. He loves it and has lots of energy. That is legit. What is impressive is he does have a lot of football aptitude. He learns quickly. He can apply it on the field. He has great size. He is tough as hell, and he will compete. He will compete at throwing the football into targets, like we did during our workout. He will compete on Saturday, Sunday or Monday night, and I love that. He has extreme confidence. He walks the talk.

2. The red flags are real, and they are not limited to the off-the-field incidents.

One concern is he has played two years of college football and is not 22 years old yet. Other concerns are decision-making on the field, with too many interceptions, and off the field, for obvious reasons.

Also, while baseball has helped him tremendously in some ways, it has hurt him in others. Number one, he has mostly been away from football in spring practice. As a young quarterback, you need spring practice to make corrections from the regular season, to add nuances to your offense, to develop your fundamentals. He has missed some time. I also worry about the wear and tear on the arm. I know he says he is on a pitch count, but I worry about that a little bit. I do not like seeing my pitcher throwing breaking balls. Plus, it is a different throwing motion when you are in a windup and when you are a quarterback throwing from the pocket. He has refined that. You can tell he has quickened his delivery.

3. You could really see the mental toughness and competitive nature come through in games when Florida State was trailing late.

They fell behind in games, and it did not look good. I'd turn off the TV, and he'd bring them back. That is really one of the biggest things I have always looked at when evaluating QBs. I say, just get me the film, and let me see this kid play in the fourth quarter when they are tied or behind. You get to see Winston do that against Auburn for the national title two seasons ago. There he was again versus the Miami Hurricanes on the road. Another one at Louisville. You see him against Boston College. You see him against NC State. You see him almost every week. He is bailing his team out. I love that. That is the kind of stuff the great ones have.

4. The concerns over Winston's playing just two seasons and his off-the-field issues can be solved.

One, he had the game against Clemson taken away from him on national TV. I think he learned a valuable lesson. He grew up a lot right there. I do think he has a great family. I think he has gotten great training from the likes of EJ Manuel and Jimbo Fisher. He has been trained to be a quarterback since he was 6 years old. From that vantage point, you might think here is no way he lets down his family again, that it is too important to him and he has too much pride.

5. I would not necessarily write off Winston as a rookie, even though he'll be going to a weaker team without a top offensive line.

Indianapolis won two games in 2011 and had no pass protection for its QBs, no receivers getting open on the film I watched -- and then the next season, the big soldier, No. 12, Andrew Luck walked in. Have you seen Seattle's offensive line or receiving corps at times over the past few seasons? Let's see another quarterback go out there and do what Russell Wilson has done with the same offensive team.

This guy here, Winston, he can stand in there under tremendous fire and throw strikes. I have seen a lot of tape of him doing that. Florida State missed more protection pickups this year than last year. Winson was under a lot more fire. He had a very good supporting cast overall. There are going to be a lot of Seminoles drafted -- three linemen, the tight end, a receiver -- but there is no question Winston is mentally tough enough to weather the football challenges that await him his first year in the NFL.
 

Skooby

Alone In My Zone
Supporter
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
25,228
Reputation
10,282
Daps
59,799
Reppin
The Cosmos
Top 5 MVP snubs in NBA history

The MVP will go to a deserving candidate this season. With award favorites Stephen Curry and James Harden posting incredible seasons by any serious measure, the winner will have earned it.

Other years? Not so much.

On Monday, I listed the biggest MVP reaches in NBA history -- the guys who won the award with little to no statistical backing. Turns out, Steve Nash's MVP awards were not validated by the numbers, but rather the enduring legacy of what his Phoenix Suns did for the league.

In today's edition, I'll look at the snubs -- the guys who didn't win the award, but who absolutely should have in the eyes of advanced metrics. To create an advanced metric composite, we'll lean on three all-in-one metrics to rate each MVP candidate: Justin Kubatko's win shares (WS), Daniel Myers' VORP (box plus-minus that factors in playing time) and ESPN Insider Kevin Pelton's WARP.

A side note: In Monday's edition, I used box plus-minus instead of its statistical cousin, VORP, but the latter makes more sense to use as an apples-to-apples comparison. Like WARP and WS, VORP is a counting stat that factors in minutes, whereas BPM is a rate stat like PER. Using VORP doesn't drastically overhaul Monday's reach rankings, but it would have moved Nash's 2006 MVP ahead of Allen Iverson's 2001 to give the Suns' point guard the top two spots. Otherwise, the VORP ranking was unchanged.

Enough of the alphabet soup. A bit of a public service announcement: Though not every media member relies on advanced metrics, they should be an essential tool for an MVP vote. After all, it's the storyteller's job to craft a narrative. It's the statistician's job to make a serious valuation, and the MVP vote is, by definition, about measuring value.

Combining those three metrics to make a composite ranking, I found the candidates whom voters overlooked the most from a statistical perspective. So which runner-ups were shafted the most? Let's take a look.





1. Kevin Garnett


2004-05 WS: 1st | VORP: 1st
WARP: 1st: Composite Rk: 1st. Actual MVP rank: 11th.
Actual MVP: Steve Nash



Let's do a little exercise here: Player A: 24.2 points, league-leading 13.9 rebounds. 5.0 assists on 49.9 percent shooting. Player B: 22.2 points, league-leading 13.5 rebounds, 5.7 assists on 50.2 percent shooting. Similar seasons, right? Who is Player A? That's Garnett in 2003-04, when he won the MVP almost unanimously. Player B is Garnett the very next season, when he didn't even crack the top 10 in the MVP vote.

Wait, what? How does that happen? So here's what went down. In 2004-05, the Timberwolves followed up a Western Conference finals appearance by not making the playoffs because All-NBA point guard Sam Cassell's balky back knocked him out for one-third of the season; Latrell Sprewellmailed in the season because he was bitter after what he felt was the Timberwolves' lowball extension offer the previous summer ("I have a family to feed"); Flip Saunders was fired midseason amid the turmoil.

And because his supporting cast failed him, voters blamed Garnett, despite him ranking as the best player by any statistical measure. If you're wondering how current PER leader Anthony Davis will fare in the MVP vote if the Pelicans miss the playoffs, look to Garnett in 2004-05. Let's hope the media does better.





2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar


1978-79 WS: 1st | VORP: 1st
WARP: 1st: Composite Rk: 1st. Actual MVP rank: 4th.
Actual MVP: Moses Malone



Abdul-Jabbar didn't place in the top three in the vote even though he bested the actual MVP, Malone, in every all-in-one metric. Malone's Rockets and Abdul-Jabbar's Lakers finished with the exact same record of 47-35, so this wasn't a case of voters being blinded by the team's record. Malone was a monster that season, leading the league in rebounds and averaging 24.8 points per game, but he anchored the second-worst defense in the NBA.

Abdul-Jabbar was just as good if not better in every category, but he probably suffered from voter fatigue. At age 31, the center had already won five MVPs at that point, and Malone was the new kid on the block at 23 years old. Advanced metrics weren't even a thought back then, so it's hard to place too much blame on the voters. But Abdul-Jabbar getting only 7 percent of the vote was egregious. Think of this as the earlier version of the 2011 MVP sham when Derrick Rose somehow bested LeBron James. Speaking of which ...





3. LeBron James


2010-11 WS: 1st | VORP: 1st
WARP: 1st: Composite Rk: 1st. Actual MVP rank: 3rd.
Actual MVP: Derrick Rose


The metrics loved James in 2010-11, but fallout from the Decision and the "disappointing" 58-24 season from the Miami Heat irked voters. With Derrick Rose, Tom Thibodeau and the Chicago Bulls' surprising rise to the top of the East, the voting committee was disenchanted with James enough to drop him to third behind Rose and Dwight Howard.

In retrospect, voters were probably too emotional when they cast their ballots. James finished first in all three all-in-one metrics while Rose didn't finish higher than third in any, and Howard finished as low as sixth in VORP. James wasn't his best in 2010-11, but it was still good enough to be better than everyone else. If he had won the 2011 MVP, he may have become the first player ever to have five straight MVPs.





4. Michael Jordan


1989-90 WS: 1st | VORP: 1st
WARP: 1st: Composite Rk: 1st. Actual MVP rank: 3rd.
Actual MVP: Magic Johnson


As I wrote in Monday's piece, there's no way that Jordan should have finished with just five MVPs in his career. Looking back statistically, his 1990 non-MVP was probably the biggest snub of all (Interestingly enough, Hakeem Olajuwon actually finished with more WARP than both Jordan and Charles Barkley in 1993, when Barkley won it). The 1990 MVP was essentially a three-way tie between Johnson, Barkley and Jordan, but it should have been Jordan's outright.

That season Jordan lead the league in scoring (33.6 points per game) and did so while being first-team all-defense, a two-way combo that Barkley and Johnson couldn't even dream of accomplishing. Because of his all-around game, Jordan crushed his peers in WS, VORP and WARP, but he trailed in the voting mostly because ... I'm not quite sure. Remember, Jordan was still known as a selfish non-winner at this point in his career despite his defensive accolades and leading the Bulls in assists. Ah, the power of perception.





5. David Robinson


1993-94 WS: 1st | VORP: 1st
WARP: 1st: Composite Rk: 1st. Actual MVP rank: 2nd.
Actual MVP: Hakeem Olajuwon



The 1994 MVP race was blown wide-open once Jordan decided to try his hand at baseball the previous summer. Here was Robinson's stat-line: a league-leading 29.8 points, 10.7 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 3.3 blocks, and 1.7 steals on 50.7 percent shooting. Pick your jaw off the floor and let me add that was the season he scored 71 points in a single game. Alas, it wasn't enough.

The Dream took home the award because he was also amazing that season, but mostly because the Rockets finished with a superior record (58-24 to the Spurs' 55-27). Robinson finished with 20.3 win shares (Olajuwon had 14.3), 10.6 VORP (Olajuwon had 7.5) and 27.3 WARP (Olajuwon had 21.9). From the advanced metrics perspective, it wasn't close. Robinson ended up winning the 1995 MVP, but Olajuwon would get his revenge by dominating Robinson in the playoffs en route to two titles. Still, Robinson was robbed in 1994.



The other top-ranked runner-ups:

Jordan 1988-89 (Composite Rk 1st, finished 2nd); Karl Malone 1997-98 (1st, 2nd); Michael Jordan 1986-87 (1st, 2nd).
 

Skooby

Alone In My Zone
Supporter
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
25,228
Reputation
10,282
Daps
59,799
Reppin
The Cosmos
I was wondering where you been lol.


Names to know for the 2016 NBA draft

PORTLAND, Ore. -- A huge contingent of NBA scouts and GMs traveled to Chicago and Portland the past few weeks to attend the practices and games for the McDonald's All-American and Nike Hoop Summit and get a closer look at the prospective 2016 NBA draft class. Here in Portland, as many as 10 potential 2016 first-rounders played at the Nike Hoop Summit -- most of them potential lottery picks.

I spoke with a number of NBA scouts about which of the players from the high school class of 2015 might be NBA players someday.

The consensus from NBA scouts is that this class isn't as strong as in years past. While there are a few intriguing names at the top, the depth isn't nearly what it's been.

"The last couple of years we've had steak," one NBA scout said. "This year, after the first two or three guys are off the board, we get hamburger. Good hamburger, but hamburger nonetheless."

Still, with so many underclassmen deciding to declare for the 2015 NBA draft, they aren't going to have much competition. Right now we only have one returning college player likely to crack our top 10 in 2016 -- San Diego State's Malik Pope. That could change if Utah's Jakob Poeltl, Arizona's Stanley Johnson, Arkansas' Bobby Portis or Providence's Kris Dunn decide to return to school. But right now Pope's the only guy that can compete with the top players on this list.

Based on numerous discussions with scouts, here's a sneak peek at 10 high school prospects who should be topping our 2016 Big Board when it's released in July.



1. Ben Simmons, F, committed to LSU

McDonald's: 7 points, 10 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals in 19 minutes
Hoop Summit: 13 points, 9 rebounds, 9 assists, 2 steals in 30 minutes


Simmons came into April widely regarded as the most likely candidate to be the No. 1 pick in 2016. He's a very unique prospect. He's 6-foot-10 and 240 pounds, but plays like a point forward. He has incredible ball-handling and passing vision for his size, which is why some scouts see him as a poor man's LeBron James. He certainly models his game after James, though he lacks the elite explosiveness of LeBron. Nevertheless, he's also a good athlete that can get wherever he wants on the floor. His jump shot needs polish, he's not particularly long for his position and sometimes he needs to be more aggressive hunting for his shot. But as he showed in the Hoop Summit, he's a potential triple-double machine on any given night -- grabbing boards, leading the break, throwing behind-the-back passes and finishing strong at the rim. If LSU let's him run the show as a freshman, he's going to be a big deal next year.




2. Skal Labissiere, F/C, committed to Kentucky

Hoop Summit: 21 pts, 6 rebs, 6 blks in 27 mins


Labissiere should be Simmons' primary competition for the No. 1 pick in 2016. He wowed NBA scouts in Hoop Summit practices and in the game with his size, athleticism and overall skills on both ends of the ball. If Simmons is a poor man's LeBron James, Labissiere is a poor man's Anthony Davis. He has a soft touch in the post, can step out and nail mid-range and 3-point jumpers, can handle the ball and is an emerging rim protector. His lack of elite length for his position is a question mark and he doesn't always assert himself yet. But given what John Calipari did for Karl-Anthony Towns this year, scouts are really bullish on him.



3. Jaylen Brown, G/F, uncommitted

McDonald's: 9 pts, 6 rebs, 2blks, 2 steals in 21 mins
Hoop Summit: 8 pts, 2 rebs, 1 steal in 16 mins


Brown certainly looks the part of a potential No. 1 pick. He's already blessed with a NBA body and explosive athleticism. His dunk at the Hoop Summit was the most memorable play in the game. When he's playing fearlessly like that and attacking the rim, he looks like an elite prospect. A hip pointer limited him a bit last week and scouts didn't get to see him scrimmage on Thursday, which was disappointing. He didn't dominate the game the way he's capable in either McDonald's or the Hoop Summit, and that is scouts' primary concern about him. He has the tools to do everything (though his jump shot still needs polish). He just needs to do it consistently. Kentucky, Kansas, UCLA, North Carolina, Michigan, Cal, Georgia and Georgia Tech are all heavily recruiting him.


4. Brandon Ingram, SF, uncommitted

McDonald's: 15 pts, 5 rebs in 18 minutes
Hoop Summit: 12 pts, 2 rebs, 2 steals, 2 blks in 26 mins


Three months ago Ingram wasn't in the one-and-done conversation at all. But he's been progressing rapidly the past few months and greatly impressed scouts at both McDonald's and the Hoop Summit. At 6-foot-9 ½ with a 7-foot-3 wingspan, he has elite size for a small forward. He's a good athlete who can rise up over offenses and with a silky smooth jumper. And despite his very thin frame (he weighed in at 196 pounds), he's scrappy. If he can keep progressing at this rate and if he can add a little meat to those toothpicks he calls arms and legs, he's got the chance to be special. Duke, North Carolina, Kansas and Kentucky are the four teams in the mix for Ingram at the moment.



5. Diamond Stone, C, committed to Maryland

McDonald's: 14 pts, 3 rebs, 2 blks in 19 mins


Stone is a big, physical low-post scorer who carves up space in the paint. He has soft hands, excellent footwork and can punish defenders down low. He's not particularly explosive athletically, which limits his upside somewhat. But it's hard to find guys that can score in the post the way Stone can. With both Melo Trimble and Jake Layman returning to Maryland, look for him to play a big role on a very high-profile team next season.



6. Henry Ellenson, F/C, Marquette


Ellenson was originally scheduled to play for Team USA in the Nike Hoop Summit, but a broken hand kept him out of the game. Ellenson, according to scouts, is another very skilled big man who can score from just about anywhere on the floor. He can stroke the 3 and score in the paint with either hand. His defense leaves a lot to be desired and scouts are hoping he continues to get in better shape, but just about every scout I spoke to raised a Kevin Love comparison at some point. He isn't as good of a prospect as Love, but plays a similar game.



7. Malik Newman, SG, uncommitted

McDonald's: 1 pt, 2 rebs, 5 assits in 19 mins
Hoop Summit: 10 pts, 2 steals in 17 mins


Newman may be the best pure scorer in the class. A classic combo guard, Newman can score from anywhere on the floor. He's terrific at slashing to the basket and he can pull up and nail the 3. His biggest issue is size. At 6-foot-4, with a 6-foot-5 wingspan, he doesn't have elite size for his position, nor is he a super explosive athlete. He's trying to pass himself off as a point guard and may be hunting for a college team that will let him handle the ball. If he can make the transition the way D'Angelo Russell did (though he isn't nearly the creative passer that Russell is), he could move up a few spots on this board. For now, think of him as sort of a Monta Ellis-like player. Newman is considering Kansas, Kentucky, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi State and NC State.




8. Cheick Diallo, PF, uncommitted
McDonald's: 18 pts, 10 rebs, 2 steals, 1 blk in 17 mins
Hoop Summit: 12 pts, 6 rebs, 3 blks in 16 min


Diallo won MVP honors at the McDonald's game and competed as hard as anyone in the Nike Hoop Summit practices. He's an excellent athlete with an elite 7-foot-4 wingspan who constantly plays in attack mode on both ends. There are few players with his combination of toughness and athleticism. He just lacks polish offensively. He's great running the floor and cleaning up on the offensive glass, but when he tries to do more than that, his lack of skill -- both in the paint and on the perimeter -- shows. If he does figure things out offensively, he's going to be a beast. Even if he doesn't, he projects to be able to guard two or three positions on the floor. Kansas, Kentucky and St. John's seem to lead the pack for Diallo, with Iowa State and Pittsburgh also in the mix.



9. Thon Maker, PF, uncommitted
Hoop Summit: 2 pts, 10 rebs, in 14 mins


Maker was largely a disappointment last week at the Hoop Summit. His feel for the game is clearly a major work in progress. His recognition of what he was doing on both ends of the floor was clearly behind most of the players there. But it's the physical tools that have scouts excited. He's a very fluid athlete with great length and agility for a player his size. He plays hard, can guard multiple positions and has the raw skills of a player who, with a year or two of solid development, looks like a great NBA prospect. He's ranked this high based much more on upside than production. But if you know anything about the NBA draft, teams love upside. If he can get academically eligible (a major question according to scouts), Kansas, Kentucky and Indiana lead his list of schools.



10. Ivan Rabb, PF, committed to Cal

McDonald's: 10 pts, 6 rebs in 15 mins
Hoop Summit: 2 pts, 3 rebs, 8 mins


Rabb just announced that he's attending Cal and he should be a major get for the school. With Jabari Bird and (hopefully) Tyrone Wallace returning, they'll be in very good shape in the Pac 12 next year. Rabb is big, athletic and defends and rebounds, but he didn't have a standout Hoop Summit and clearly was a bit of a letdown for a number of scouts who came in thinking he might be a top 5 pick. He needs to add strength and find ways to be more assertive offensively.

Others to watch: Antonio Blakeney, SG, LSU; Isaiah Briscoe, PG, Kentucky; Dwayne Bacon, SF, Florida State; Stephen Zimmerman, C, uncommitted; Jamal Murray, G, uncommitted; Caleb Swanigan, PF, Michigan State; Chase Jeter, PF, Duke; Allonzo Trier, SG, Arizona; Luke Kennard, G/F, Duke
 
Top