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Snyder is just far superior to Whedon is every way
Snyder is just far superior to Whedon is every way
The Official DC Extended Universe Thread
- Thread starter Brandeezy
- Start date
I'd love to see snyder do another horror film. I think his sensibilities are great for horror.No money
Snyder is just far superior to Whedon is every way
Also would be cool if he did a detective Noir story.
i geek out to that scene every time....that shyt is so cool, and shows superman being superman...all the shyt lex did to get at him, and he still saved him the first sec he could....
Just gonna cross post this here because I thought some other brehs might miss it and want to read more of my thoughts on the dceu,Mos and bvs..
The entire point of the dceu is built upon one question.
How would the world react if superman was actually real?
This theme is explored in the first 3 films. Man Of Steel,BVS and SS. And it looks to continue in Justice League unless whedon completely hacks the film away to a brain dead blockbuster loaded with a quip every 30 seconds so nobody has to worry about thinking too much.
Superman himself as a man if you will,is torn between two fathers words. One,telling him to be the leader and saviour. One is also an "alien" himself,who doesn't understand humanity. The other is a simple farmer who loves his son. But he is weary about how the world will react to a god like presence. He's afraid for his son,but also the world because he fears the real world impact he will have.
This dichotomy of two different fathers teachings is what creates this version of Superman,and sets his character arc. Does superman hide his identity in the shadows or when the time comes will he stand up to the world,expose who he is and save humanity?
Jor El sacrifices his own life to save his son, to save his world.
Jonathan Kent sacrifices his life to protect his son's identity and allow Clark to answer the question on his own time,when he is ready to make his choice. To become superman or stay Clark Kent hiding in the shadows.
In Man Of Steel,he makes the decision to become superman. He saves the world and exposes who he is.
This is facilitated by zod. Who presents a 3rd option. Restart the krypton race,destroy humanity. Build krypton again on the bones of humanity.
He makes his choice. He doesn't do it begrudgingly,he chooses to expose himself and save humanity. He chooses to become superman and follow Jor el's path.
Now,BVS explores the effects of this decision, jonathan Kent's path,how it effects the world and the people within it.
It does so in 3 aspects,batman,lex and the world at large.
The world reacts as expected. Many see him as a god and saviour,but he is also seen as a threat. Seeing someone like that,battle others like him causing untold damage and loss of life is enough to give anyone pause.
To just touch on it quickly,suicide squad explores this by having the government form them in response to superman out of fear and a need for power. There was something interesting to be explored there but Ayer stumbled with the script and enchantress.
Back on point, BVS begins with 2 key scenes that set up batman's arc and set up the rest of the film. The scene of bruce's parents being killed,his father's last words heard being Martha. This is obviously the most important thing to happen to bruce in his life. It creates batman,and sets him on his path. It's a life changing moment.
The 2nd scene is Bruce racing through the city,seeing the destruction,the loss of life and even hugging a recently orphaned girl who's parents were just killed by superman and zod fighting. This is important because Bruce sees himself in that little girl. He sees God's fighting and the loss of life. You can see the anger in his face. This is another life changing moment for Bruce and who he is as Batman. This sets up his arc for the film.
In this aspect Bruce himself in many ways represents some audiences reaction to man of steel. He sees all this, but misses the context. A lot of people die,but this isn't Supermans fault. Bruce misses this completely.
With all that said,people saying this isn't batman,batman wouldn't do that etc are missing the forest for the trees. The entire point of the film is to show that he is acting out of character. He is acting like a villain in the film.
This information is given to us throughout the film by his actions but also by Alfred,the fever speech,telling him he isn't the enemy and so on.
On the other side of this is Superman himself. He has show himself to the world and is struggling to find his place and acceptance in the world. Seen as both a god and devil at the same time with a man in the middle torn between two fathers teachings just trying to do what is right.
Snyder repeats the skull imagery to further illustrate his choice. Instead of being swallowed up by the skulls he is being worshipped as a saviour by those same people he could have let die with more skull imagery. It's a well placed juxtaposition missed by the vast majority,MOS,BVS and almost all of snyder's films have things like this. He's very much a visual story teller,every shot is framed a certain way for a reason and it's easy to miss when you aren't looking.
Now interwoven into all this is the heavy religious themes. Superman obviously representing a Jesus Christ like figure. This where is lex comes into play.
Lex is portrayed as a guy with daddy issues and a god complex. Like the film being about how batman reacts to the presence of Superman it's about how lex reacts as well. His stuttering speech at his party is him cracking up. Superman has pushed him over the edge,now obsessed with proving god isn't real because god never saved him from his fathers abuse. If god is all good he cant be all powerful,and if god is all powerful he cannot be all good. Throughout the film lex tries to repeatedly set superman up so that he can be seen as a threat. He's doing this so he can use the government's fear to allow him to create a weapon to kill him. Lex is also aware of batman being pushed to the edge. Like his attempt at using the governments fear,he manipulates batman fear into helping him become a villain himself to kill superman. Lex might be a powerful man,he literally has a senator eating out of the palm of his hand, but what is the lost powerful man to a God? He's nothing. This is lex drive to kill superman. Batman is just a pawn in this game.
Lex represents man itself. Man's hubris. Instead of accepting superman (Jesus Christ) he sets out to prove him to be a false prophet and kill him much like Jesus was killed.
Ultimately lex sets the senate hearing explosion into fruition.
This all culminates in the batman and superman fight. Lex kidnaps Clarks mother, and manipulates batmam enough to facilitate this showdown.
Superman tried to explain the situation but batman driven over the edge by this latest loss of life wants to hear none of it. Now,this all leads to the Martha scene. The film once again uses imagery to juxtapose this event. This isn't about some gross over simplification of a shared name. This is Bruce,hearing the same thing his father said right before he died at the hands of a villain. In that moment batman snapped out of his rage. He realized he had become the villain. The film uses this moment as a life changing moment for him. The point of the entire arc was showing him act like a villain,almost on the same side of the coin as lex and later Amanda waller. And then him realizing what had happened, snapping out of it and once again changing. Thus his arc is complete. Three scenes,all shown as the ultimate turning points of his life.
Now,to continue and finish my point.
Lex,now plan failed turns to his last resort. Doomsday,an anti Christ like figure.
In yet another moment of Superman proving himself and being heroic is this
Superman makes the choice to save lex's life.
And to further the religious theme,superman,like Jesus, sacrifices his own life to kill doomsday,dying for man's sins.
If the final arc is completed,like Jesus, superman will be resurrected in Justice League.
The entire point of the dceu is built upon one question.
How would the world react if superman was actually real?
This theme is explored in the first 3 films. Man Of Steel,BVS and SS. And it looks to continue in Justice League unless whedon completely hacks the film away to a brain dead blockbuster loaded with a quip every 30 seconds so nobody has to worry about thinking too much.
Superman himself as a man if you will,is torn between two fathers words. One,telling him to be the leader and saviour. One is also an "alien" himself,who doesn't understand humanity. The other is a simple farmer who loves his son. But he is weary about how the world will react to a god like presence. He's afraid for his son,but also the world because he fears the real world impact he will have.
This dichotomy of two different fathers teachings is what creates this version of Superman,and sets his character arc. Does superman hide his identity in the shadows or when the time comes will he stand up to the world,expose who he is and save humanity?
Jor El sacrifices his own life to save his son, to save his world.
Jonathan Kent sacrifices his life to protect his son's identity and allow Clark to answer the question on his own time,when he is ready to make his choice. To become superman or stay Clark Kent hiding in the shadows.
In Man Of Steel,he makes the decision to become superman. He saves the world and exposes who he is.
This is facilitated by zod. Who presents a 3rd option. Restart the krypton race,destroy humanity. Build krypton again on the bones of humanity.
He makes his choice. He doesn't do it begrudgingly,he chooses to expose himself and save humanity. He chooses to become superman and follow Jor el's path.
Now,BVS explores the effects of this decision, jonathan Kent's path,how it effects the world and the people within it.
It does so in 3 aspects,batman,lex and the world at large.
The world reacts as expected. Many see him as a god and saviour,but he is also seen as a threat. Seeing someone like that,battle others like him causing untold damage and loss of life is enough to give anyone pause.
To just touch on it quickly,suicide squad explores this by having the government form them in response to superman out of fear and a need for power. There was something interesting to be explored there but Ayer stumbled with the script and enchantress.
Back on point, BVS begins with 2 key scenes that set up batman's arc and set up the rest of the film. The scene of bruce's parents being killed,his father's last words heard being Martha. This is obviously the most important thing to happen to bruce in his life. It creates batman,and sets him on his path. It's a life changing moment.
The 2nd scene is Bruce racing through the city,seeing the destruction,the loss of life and even hugging a recently orphaned girl who's parents were just killed by superman and zod fighting. This is important because Bruce sees himself in that little girl. He sees God's fighting and the loss of life. You can see the anger in his face. This is another life changing moment for Bruce and who he is as Batman. This sets up his arc for the film.
In this aspect Bruce himself in many ways represents some audiences reaction to man of steel. He sees all this, but misses the context. A lot of people die,but this isn't Supermans fault. Bruce misses this completely.
With all that said,people saying this isn't batman,batman wouldn't do that etc are missing the forest for the trees. The entire point of the film is to show that he is acting out of character. He is acting like a villain in the film.
This information is given to us throughout the film by his actions but also by Alfred,the fever speech,telling him he isn't the enemy and so on.
On the other side of this is Superman himself. He has show himself to the world and is struggling to find his place and acceptance in the world. Seen as both a god and devil at the same time with a man in the middle torn between two fathers teachings just trying to do what is right.
Snyder repeats the skull imagery to further illustrate his choice. Instead of being swallowed up by the skulls he is being worshipped as a saviour by those same people he could have let die with more skull imagery. It's a well placed juxtaposition missed by the vast majority,MOS,BVS and almost all of snyder's films have things like this. He's very much a visual story teller,every shot is framed a certain way for a reason and it's easy to miss when you aren't looking.
Now interwoven into all this is the heavy religious themes. Superman obviously representing a Jesus Christ like figure. This where is lex comes into play.
Lex is portrayed as a guy with daddy issues and a god complex. Like the film being about how batman reacts to the presence of Superman it's about how lex reacts as well. His stuttering speech at his party is him cracking up. Superman has pushed him over the edge,now obsessed with proving god isn't real because god never saved him from his fathers abuse. If god is all good he cant be all powerful,and if god is all powerful he cannot be all good. Throughout the film lex tries to repeatedly set superman up so that he can be seen as a threat. He's doing this so he can use the government's fear to allow him to create a weapon to kill him. Lex is also aware of batman being pushed to the edge. Like his attempt at using the governments fear,he manipulates batman fear into helping him become a villain himself to kill superman. Lex might be a powerful man,he literally has a senator eating out of the palm of his hand, but what is the lost powerful man to a God? He's nothing. This is lex drive to kill superman. Batman is just a pawn in this game.
Lex represents man itself. Man's hubris. Instead of accepting superman (Jesus Christ) he sets out to prove him to be a false prophet and kill him much like Jesus was killed.
Ultimately lex sets the senate hearing explosion into fruition.
This all culminates in the batman and superman fight. Lex kidnaps Clarks mother, and manipulates batmam enough to facilitate this showdown.
Superman tried to explain the situation but batman driven over the edge by this latest loss of life wants to hear none of it. Now,this all leads to the Martha scene. The film once again uses imagery to juxtapose this event. This isn't about some gross over simplification of a shared name. This is Bruce,hearing the same thing his father said right before he died at the hands of a villain. In that moment batman snapped out of his rage. He realized he had become the villain. The film uses this moment as a life changing moment for him. The point of the entire arc was showing him act like a villain,almost on the same side of the coin as lex and later Amanda waller. And then him realizing what had happened, snapping out of it and once again changing. Thus his arc is complete. Three scenes,all shown as the ultimate turning points of his life.
Now,to continue and finish my point.
Lex,now plan failed turns to his last resort. Doomsday,an anti Christ like figure.
In yet another moment of Superman proving himself and being heroic is this
Superman makes the choice to save lex's life.
And to further the religious theme,superman,like Jesus, sacrifices his own life to kill doomsday,dying for man's sins.
If the final arc is completed,like Jesus, superman will be resurrected in Justice League.
Last edited:
Just gonna cross post this here because I thought some other brehs might miss it and want read more of my thoughts on the dceu,Mos and bvs..
The entire point of the dceu is built upon one question.
How would the world react if superman was actually real?
This theme is explored in the first 3 films. Man Of Steel,BVS and SS. And it looks to continue in Justice League unless whedon completely hacks the film away to a brain dead blockbuster loaded with a quip every 30 seconds so nobody has to worry about thinking too much.
Superman himself as a man if you will,is torn between two fathers words. One,telling him to be the leader and saviour. One is also an "alien" himself,who doesn't understand humanity. The other is a simple farmer who loves his son. But he is weary about how the world will react to a god like presence. He's afraid for his son,but also the world because he fears the real world impact he will have.
This dichotomy of two different fathers teachings is what creates this version of Superman,and sets his character arc. Does superman hide his identity in the shadows or when the time comes will he stand up to the world,expose who he is and save humanity?
Jor El sacrifices his own life to save his son, to save his world.
Jonathan Kent sacrifices his life to protect his son's identity and allow Clark to answer the question on his own time,when he is ready to make his choice. To become superman or stay Clark Kent hiding in the shadows.
In Man Of Steel,he makes the decision to become superman. He saves the world and exposes who he is.
This is facilitated by zod. Who presents a 3rd option. Restart the krypton race,destroy humanity. Build krypton again on the bones of humanity.
He makes his choice. He doesn't do it begrudgingly,he chooses to expose himself and save humanity. He chooses to become superman and follow Jor el's path.
Now,BVS explores the effects of this decision, jonathan Kent's path,how it effects the world and the people within it.
It does so in 3 aspects,batman,lex and the world at large.
The world reacts as expected. Many see him as a god and saviour,but he is also seen as a threat. Seeing someone like that,battle others like him causing untold damage and loss of life is enough to give anyone pause.
To just touch on it quickly,suicide squad explores this by having the government form them in response to superman out of fear and a need for power. There was something interesting to be explored there but Ayer stumbled with the script and enchantress.
Back on point, BVS begins with 2 key scenes that set up batman's arc and set up the rest of the film. The scene of bruce's parents being killed,his father's last words heard being Martha. This is obviously the most important thing to happen to bruce in his life. It creates batman,and sets him on his path. It's a life changing moment.
The 2nd scene is Bruce racing through the city,seeing the destruction,the loss of life and even hugging a recently orphaned girl who's parents were just killed by superman and zod fighting. This is important because Bruce sees himself in that little girl. He sees God's fighting and the loss of life. You can see the anger in his face. This is another life changing moment for Bruce and who he is as Batman. This sets up his arc for the film.
In this aspect Bruce himself in many ways represents some audiences reaction to man of steel. He sees all this, but misses the context. A lot of people die,but this isn't Supermans fault. Bruce misses this completely.
With all that said,people saying this isn't batman,batman wouldn't do that etc are missing the forest for the trees. The entire point of the film is to show that he is acting out of character. He is acting like a villain in the film.
This information is given to us throughout the film by his actions but also by Alfred,the fever speech,telling him he isn't the enemy and so on.
On the other side of this is Superman himself. He has show himself to the world and is struggling to find his place and acceptance in the world. Seen as both a god and devil at the same time with a man in the middle torn between two fathers teachings just trying to do what is right.
Snyder repeats the skull imagery to further illustrate his choice. Instead of being swallowed up by the skulls he is being worshipped as a saviour by those same people he could have let die with more skull imagery. It's a well placed juxtaposition missed by the vast majority,MOS,BVS and almost all of snyder's films have things like this. He's very much a visual story teller,every shot is framed a certain way for a reason and it's easy to miss when you aren't looking.
Now interwoven into all this is the heavy religious themes. Superman obviously representing a Jesus Christ like figure. This where is lex comes into play.
Lex is portrayed as a guy with daddy issues and a god complex. Like the film being about how batman reacts to the presence of Superman it's about how lex reacts as well. His stuttering speech at his party is him cracking up. Superman has pushed him over the edge,now obsessed with proving god isn't real because god never saved him from his fathers abuse. If god is all good he cant be all powerful,and if god is all powerful he cannot be all good. Throughout the film lex tries to repeatedly set superman up so that he can be seen as a threat. He's doing this so he can use the government's fear to allow him to create a weapon to kill him. Lex is also aware of batman being pushed to the edge. Like his attempt at using the governments fear,he manipulates batman fear into helping him become a villain himself to kill superman. Lex might be a powerful man,he literally has a senator eating out of the palm of his hand, but what is the lost powerful man to a God? He's nothing. This is lex drive to kill superman. Batman is just a pawn in this game.
Lex represents man itself. Man's hubris. Instead of accepting superman (Jesus Christ) he sets out to prove him to be a false prophet and kill him much like Jesus was killed.
Ultimately lex sets the senate hearing explosion into fruition.
This all culminates in the batman and superman fight. Lex kidnaps Clarks mother, and manipulates batmam enough to facilitate this showdown.
Superman tried to explain the situation but batman driven over the edge by this latest loss of life wants to hear none of it. Now,this all leads to the Martha scene. The film once again uses imagery to juxtapose this event. This isn't about some gross over simplification of a shared name. This is Bruce,hearing the same thing his father said right before he died at the hands of a villain. In that moment batman snapped out of his rage. He realized he had become the villain. The film uses this moment as a life changing moment for him. The point of the entire arc was showing him act like a villain,almost on the same side of the coin as lex and later Amanda waller. And then him realizing what had happened, snapping out of it and once again changing. Thus his arc is complete. Three scenes,all shown as the ultimate turning points of his life.
Now,to continue and finish my point.
Lex,now plan failed turns to his last resort. Doomsday,an anti Christ like figure.
In yet another moment of Superman proving himself and being heroic is this
Superman makes the choice to save lex's life.
And to further the religious theme,superman,like Jesus, sacrifices his own life to kill doomsday,dying for man's sins.
If the final arc is completed,like Jesus, superman will be resurrected in Justice League.
I typed that up on my phone at work today in between doing shyt.
Think I might take the template of the post, clean it up,make it more concise and post it as an article.
richaveli83
Veteran
Just gonna cross post this here because I thought some other brehs might miss it and want to read more of my thoughts on the dceu,Mos and bvs..
The entire point of the dceu is built upon one question.
How would the world react if superman was actually real?
This theme is explored in the first 3 films. Man Of Steel,BVS and SS. And it looks to continue in Justice League unless whedon completely hacks the film away to a brain dead blockbuster loaded with a quip every 30 seconds so nobody has to worry about thinking too much.
Superman himself as a man if you will,is torn between two fathers words. One,telling him to be the leader and saviour. One is also an "alien" himself,who doesn't understand humanity. The other is a simple farmer who loves his son. But he is weary about how the world will react to a god like presence. He's afraid for his son,but also the world because he fears the real world impact he will have.
This dichotomy of two different fathers teachings is what creates this version of Superman,and sets his character arc. Does superman hide his identity in the shadows or when the time comes will he stand up to the world,expose who he is and save humanity?
Jor El sacrifices his own life to save his son, to save his world.
Jonathan Kent sacrifices his life to protect his son's identity and allow Clark to answer the question on his own time,when he is ready to make his choice. To become superman or stay Clark Kent hiding in the shadows.
In Man Of Steel,he makes the decision to become superman. He saves the world and exposes who he is.
This is facilitated by zod. Who presents a 3rd option. Restart the krypton race,destroy humanity. Build krypton again on the bones of humanity.
He makes his choice. He doesn't do it begrudgingly,he chooses to expose himself and save humanity. He chooses to become superman and follow Jor el's path.
Now,BVS explores the effects of this decision, jonathan Kent's path,how it effects the world and the people within it.
It does so in 3 aspects,batman,lex and the world at large.
The world reacts as expected. Many see him as a god and saviour,but he is also seen as a threat. Seeing someone like that,battle others like him causing untold damage and loss of life is enough to give anyone pause.
To just touch on it quickly,suicide squad explores this by having the government form them in response to superman out of fear and a need for power. There was something interesting to be explored there but Ayer stumbled with the script and enchantress.
Back on point, BVS begins with 2 key scenes that set up batman's arc and set up the rest of the film. The scene of bruce's parents being killed,his father's last words heard being Martha. This is obviously the most important thing to happen to bruce in his life. It creates batman,and sets him on his path. It's a life changing moment.
The 2nd scene is Bruce racing through the city,seeing the destruction,the loss of life and even hugging a recently orphaned girl who's parents were just killed by superman and zod fighting. This is important because Bruce sees himself in that little girl. He sees God's fighting and the loss of life. You can see the anger in his face. This is another life changing moment for Bruce and who he is as Batman. This sets up his arc for the film.
In this aspect Bruce himself in many ways represents some audiences reaction to man of steel. He sees all this, but misses the context. A lot of people die,but this isn't Supermans fault. Bruce misses this completely.
With all that said,people saying this isn't batman,batman wouldn't do that etc are missing the forest for the trees. The entire point of the film is to show that he is acting out of character. He is acting like a villain in the film.
This information is given to us throughout the film by his actions but also by Alfred,the fever speech,telling him he isn't the enemy and so on.
On the other side of this is Superman himself. He has show himself to the world and is struggling to find his place and acceptance in the world. Seen as both a god and devil at the same time with a man in the middle torn between two fathers teachings just trying to do what is right.
Snyder repeats the skull imagery to further illustrate his choice. Instead of being swallowed up by the skulls he is being worshipped as a saviour by those same people he could have let die with more skull imagery. It's a well placed juxtaposition missed by the vast majority,MOS,BVS and almost all of snyder's films have things like this. He's very much a visual story teller,every shot is framed a certain way for a reason and it's easy to miss when you aren't looking.
Now interwoven into all this is the heavy religious themes. Superman obviously representing a Jesus Christ like figure. This where is lex comes into play.
Lex is portrayed as a guy with daddy issues and a god complex. Like the film being about how batman reacts to the presence of Superman it's about how lex reacts as well. His stuttering speech at his party is him cracking up. Superman has pushed him over the edge,now obsessed with proving god isn't real because god never saved him from his fathers abuse. If god is all good he cant be all powerful,and if god is all powerful he cannot be all good. Throughout the film lex tries to repeatedly set superman up so that he can be seen as a threat. He's doing this so he can use the government's fear to allow him to create a weapon to kill him. Lex is also aware of batman being pushed to the edge. Like his attempt at using the governments fear,he manipulates batman fear into helping him become a villain himself to kill superman. Lex might be a powerful man,he literally has a senator eating out of the palm of his hand, but what is the lost powerful man to a God? He's nothing. This is lex drive to kill superman. Batman is just a pawn in this game.
Lex represents man itself. Man's hubris. Instead of accepting superman (Jesus Christ) he sets out to prove him to be a false prophet and kill him much like Jesus was killed.
Ultimately lex sets the senate hearing explosion into fruition.
This all culminates in the batman and superman fight. Lex kidnaps Clarks mother, and manipulates batmam enough to facilitate this showdown.
Superman tried to explain the situation but batman driven over the edge by this latest loss of life wants to hear none of it. Now,this all leads to the Martha scene. The film once again uses imagery to juxtapose this event. This isn't about some gross over simplification of a shared name. This is Bruce,hearing the same thing his father said right before he died at the hands of a villain. In that moment batman snapped out of his rage. He realized he had become the villain. The film uses this moment as a life changing moment for him. The point of the entire arc was showing him act like a villain,almost on the same side of the coin as lex and later Amanda waller. And then him realizing what had happened, snapping out of it and once again changing. Thus his arc is complete. Three scenes,all shown as the ultimate turning points of his life.
Now,to continue and finish my point.
Lex,now plan failed turns to his last resort. Doomsday,an anti Christ like figure.
In yet another moment of Superman proving himself and being heroic is this
Superman makes the choice to save lex's life.
And to further the religious theme,superman,like Jesus, sacrifices his own life to kill doomsday,dying for man's sins.
If the final arc is completed,like Jesus, superman will be resurrected in Justice League.
Well fukking done!
Repeat this to the Marvel stans
I recommend giving his album the story of sonny boy slim a listen. Very dope.Didn't know it was a brother that performed this.
You should. Its some good insights in there.
Gary Clark Jr is the truth.Didn't know it was a brother that performed this.
Things Are Changin' used to be my go to chill song a few years ago:
richaveli83
Veteran
