Essential The Official Comic Book Discussion Thread [Support @Neuromancer’s book!]

Jello Biafra

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Carl getting his freak on in The Walking Dead was hilarious.
:russ:

Well they gotta give another female writer a crack at it then or otherwise find a dude that likes the character.. because they could be (re)building the captain marvel brand much better than they are now. Why not give it a more mature theme where she's fighting tough/credible bruisers, with her and spider-woman having the occasional power girl/huntress type teamups + sisterly moments with jess jones, and actually explore/explain/acknowledge how she even got with rhodey..

ultimately maybe people just wouldn't care about the character either way, but it at least gives it a better chance of gaining and retaining interest if its solid introspection with established characters
Gail Simone would do great on Captain Marvel...Deconnick has always sucked so her being on this book for so long is just a mystery to me.

Jason Aaron's really got another hit on his hands with Southern b*stards

Boss' backstory is great and we haven't even gotten a good look at Tubb's daughter yet

Southern b*stards is great.
I am liking what he is doing on Men of Wrath too. It is in the same vein as Southern b*stards and is only a 5 issue mini (its on issue 4 right now).
 

KravenMorehead™

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Rabum Alal will be revealed in March. Any speculation? We already know the Ivory Kings are the Beyonder's race.
Someone on another board said it might be the Magus.

I think it's an evil alternate universe reed richards that hasn't been revealed.


Or an evil franklin richards. Reed said he doesn't believe in violence, and He's the first voice of Hickman's New Avengers arc, saying "Everything dies." he also says he can't tolerate the unnatural acceleration of that end. To have him have to kill the equivalent of his son to stop that, Puts him between a rock and a hard place in so many ways, which makes the most dramatic sense. I also saw someone mention in a convo on another site/board that Black Swan looks like another universe equivalent of valerie richards, which is one of those things which is so spot on you wonder how you never noticed it before. Think about how many convos he's had with her, her distate for magic(spitting at dr strange and dismissing him as a necromancer, her scientific accumen compared with that of valerias) and became even more spot on after I reread the issue with namor assembling the cabal. I can't recall right now but I think there's a panel shift where her and valerie look a alike down to hairstyles. I'd chalk it up to coincidence but I know better.

Or an alternate universe Tony Stark.

life-and-death.jpg


I gotta add more to this post later cause i'm looking for stuff...
 

Dusty Bake Activate

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Someone on another board said it might be the Magus.

I think it's an evil alternate universe reed richards that hasn't been revealed.


Or an evil franklin richards. Reed said he doesn't believe in violence, and He's the first voice of Hickman's New Avengers arc, saying "Everything dies." he also says he can't tolerate the unnatural acceleration of that end. To have him have to kill the equivalent of his son to stop that, Puts him between a rock and a hard place in so many ways, which makes the most dramatic sense. I also saw someone mention in a convo on another site/board that Black Swan looks like another universe equivalent of valerie richards, which is one of those things which is so spot on you wonder how you never noticed it before. Think about how many convos he's had with her, her distate for magic(spitting at dr strange and dismissing him as a necromancer, her scientific accumen compared with that of valerias) and became even more spot on after I reread the issue with namor assembling the cabal. I can't recall right now but I think there's a panel shift where her and valerie look a alike down to hairstyles. I'd chalk it up to coincidence but I know better.

Or an alternate universe Tony Stark.

life-and-death.jpg


I gotta add more to this post later cause i'm looking for stuff...
:patrice: Those are plausible theories. Some god-status version of Doom is possible to me as well.
 

KravenMorehead™

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:damn::damn::damn::damn::damn:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/mandrakk-vs-the-alien-entity-567858/

http://community.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?32503-PREVIEW-New-Avengers-31

http://community.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?31696-Who-is-Rabum-Alal

http://community.comicbookresources...I-think-I-know-what-is-causing-the-Incursions

http://www.comicvine.com/marvel/4010-31/forums/theories-on-who-rabum-alal-is-1639379/

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/comic-book-preview-1988/first-look-new-avengers-31-1644758/

http://everybodyilovedies.tumblr.com/post/52622861135/crazy-theory-time-the-incursions-the-birth-of

http://houseofflyingscalpels.com/2013/09/08/infinity-explaining-jonathan-hickman/

http://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/1xvp9e/hickman_marvel_multiverse_and_cosmology/

http://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/...n_marvel_multiverse_and_cosmology_conclusion/
Hickman, Marvel Multiverse, and Cosmology (self.comicbooks)

submitted 1 year ago * by GamiSBBatman of Zur-En-Arrh

To long won’t read version:

  • How does the Marvel Multiverse Work?
  • How was it first created?
  • How does Free Will alter the multiverse?
  • How did Nathaniel Richards become the last Nathaniel Richards when there are infinite Nathaniel Richards?
  • How are they gonna solve this shyt in New Avengers?
I swear I know what a vagina feels like version:

So, the Marvel Multiverse is commonly described as having an infinite number of universes, or, what we are considered with, an infinite number of Earths. This recently is a part of the problem focused on Jonathan Hickman’s New Avengers and by extension later his Avengers run. Now the infinite nature of the Multiverse is well established in other works.

http://imgur.com/HKqEq5T

Basic Break Down

First a bit of a breakdown in what the Living Tribunal (the unconscious/dead guy we saw in NA #7) is saying here and what we can likely infer. Basically the Marvel multiverse is broken up into “concepts”. IE Earths that share similar traits. So for example all Earths that have humans who evolved from primates would be a part of a concept. Now it’s a bit unknown if say “similar human evolution” is the concept that is shared. Perhaps it is something even more broad like “Earth has potential for life”. Or something more narrow “Tony Stark was never born”. Anyway point is the multiverse is divided up into concepts. Now the concepts have an infinite number of ways that they can be expressed as LT demonstrates this with numbers.

Let’s assume that the concept of “similar human evolution” is demonstrated by the number six. There can be a 6.16, a 6.45, a 6.234322 and so on. Proof of infinite variations is found throughout Hickman’s Fantastic Four and Avengers runs where we see different earths some with similar appearance but different histories (New Avengers 14 and 15, Fantastic Four 605.1, every “What If?”) and some where the characters have different personalities (Avengers #25 and #26). And just for clarification we know all these are a part of the same concept as they are all reachable via certain means: The Mirror/The Bridge and share similar features. Likewise the use of numbers to identify the concept itself implies that there are an infinite number of concepts. 616 Earth could say be a part of concept “6”, a universe where plants are sentient a part of concept “8”, a universe devoid of life entirely concept “1736” and so on. Infinite number of concepts, infinite number of variations.

Time Travel

Now it make this even more difficult is when we start throwing in Time Travel and some fairly well established consequences of such. We’ve seen (All-New X-Men, Age of Ultron, Age of Apocalypse) that any time someone time travels and alters the past a new “timeline” or a new universe is created. So Earth 616 (main MCU Earth) can create alternate futures for itself. It cannot however create alternate past. This is pretty clear, going back in time does not rewrite one timelines future. That line has already been crafted and can’t be undone. 616 Cyclopes does not have memories of his past self being taken into the future by Beast to stop himself.

An important thing to note however is that time travel is something that is controlled and the variations caused by it are not infinite. So while it is possible for the infinite variations of a concept to splinter off or create a new line to parallel their own, they do not create an infinite number of alternate time lines by doing so. Or in short there is no ∞∞ only ∞∞.1. We can also can concluded that these alternative time lines can produce alternative time lines of themselves (∞∞.1.2) but again, these actions don’t appear to create infinite splinters from their cause. Only a “Did” or “Did not” outcome based on the effect of whatever was changed in relation to time travel.

Pulling it All Together

Make sense? I’ll simplify. The natural expansion of infinite possible worlds ends at “concept.variation”. The MCU can further this splintering through time travel which forces new lines of time attached to the original variation but these are finite. We know that the Marvel multiverse was created via a Big Bang by The One Above All. It is unknown in what manner this was done though. We also do not know if originally there was only one universe (1) that splinters off into the different concepts(∞). Or if creation automatically produced the different concepts (∞) which splintered off into infinite possible variations (∞*∞). Or if these infinite variations were created at the start.

Was it

A) 1 -> ∞

B) ∞ -> ∞*∞

C) ∞*∞

Free Will

This is a rather important question because answering such will tell us if the splintering of the multiverse does so on its own or if it was created like such. Do the histories of certain time lines automatically create new branches or do potential outcomes just not matter. Example, when Stark is given the choice between PBR or Jack does his decision create two universes based on his choice. One where he picks PBR the other Jack. Trivial I know, but the same can be applied with say the Super Human registration act. Does Stark being given the choice of supporting one of these create an alternate universe where he chose the other? Or does this action have no effect beyond its own initial one within the timeline? IE doesn’t create an alternative universe. Or to sum all this up how does Free Will affect the multiverse?

Hickman

Ok so where am I going with all of this ground work? In Hickman’s Fantastic Four run there is a subplot involving Nathaniel Richards (Reed Richards’ father) where he (and all variations of himself) are tasked with killing each other leaving only one remaining. End result is Nathaniel from 616 claims to be the last remaining Nathaniel Richards in the entire Marvel multiverse. Why is this important? Because it’s fukking impossible once we apply everything written above. There are an infinite number of Nathaniel Richards who existed yet somehow 616 is the last remaining one. A similar thing is happening in New Avengers. The multiverse is collapsing on itself the end result supposedly being one final Earth with a short lifespan. So how does all this relate together.

I’ve actually got a bit of a theory that ill flesh out tomorrow and add in here but it’s late so it will have to wait.

PS and unrelated: The things AIM created in issue 26 of Avengers are totally Map Makers. http://imgur.com/NVOdobu

EDIT: So my Theory went way longer than the character limit allows and would make it impossible to add to this thread. rather than just post it as a comment I decided to make a new post in itself. You can find said post
 
Last edited:

KravenMorehead™

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In my last post I opened it with five questions. Only one of which was answered and the rest left with background information to use and sort and try to come up with possible solutions. This post is going to look at answering the remaining 4 and recap the first.

1) How does the Marvel Multiverse Work?

The Marvel Multiverse is made up of an infinite number of concepts with infinite variations. These variations can create alternate universes via time travel however these are finite. For a detailed breakdown click the link found in the first sentence.

2) How does Free Will alter the multiverse?

Answering this question will I believe gives us a stepping stone to the next. It was pointed out in the last thread that certain events are consistent throughout all variations of a concept. The formation of the Avengers, Civil War, Cyclops being Right, etc. All of these things appear to always happen no matter what variation we look at. Dark Reign: Fantastic Four makes this rather clear.

Certain events just transpire and the multiverse operates in a way causing these things to happen. What does this mean? It means we have a bit of a problem in even considering if Free Will exists in the Marvel Multiverse. But this may just be a reflection of the writer vs the story so let’s ignore it for our purposes. Removing the “meta” understanding these characters still have choices and have to respond to events. The dawning of the superhero in the multiverse may be preordained however the players and what they do is under their own control.

So to sum this up, Free Will does not alter the multiverse. What we have is a weird form of Compatibilism in which certain things just happen, there is no stopping it and it’s only a matter of time before they occur. However the details of these events are changeable. It isn't always Stark who spearheads the Super Human Registration Act. The same people don’t always die. Genders are not always the same.

But most importantly these actions don’t create new universes themselves. In Dark Reign we never see Reed explore “ok, same universe different decision” There is no Earth 616B or 616.2 This lack of exploration as well as lack of evidence I believes allows for a rather safe assumption that there is not Natural extension of the multiverse beyond “concept.varation” . The variations play out and that is all they were intended to do. Further splintering are “unnatural” and problematic.

3) How was it first created?

The question isn't concerned with how “The One Above All” created the universe but instead asking what form it was created in. So I boiled this down to three possibilities based on what was outlined in answering question 1.

A) 1 -> ∞

B) ∞ -> ∞*∞

C) ∞*∞

The real question to ask to get at an answer here is can an individual variation of a concept yield new variations of itself? This is exactly what question 2 dealt with and to which I concluded no, it can’t. Extending this up the ladder I don’t see then how a concept would be able to yield its variations. The concepts The Living Tribunal describes are more a categorical method rather than an actual thing to itself. In the last thread I gave the example of each earth being expressed by a whole number representing the concept followed by decimals that represented the variation. (Earth 5.372) Five is the concept, .372 the variant. Five is not a variation though. There is no (“Earth 5”) there are only “Earth 5.X").

Don’t confuse this with the labels used by marvel. I am not saying that “Earth 616” is mislabeled. That is its official number. However the main numbering system doesn't incorporate the idea of conceptions into it for a variety of reasons. Earth 616 as labeled using the system I've explained would just be say “Earth 1.616”.

Anyway, concepts can’t yield variations themselves. So with one swoop we can concluded both options A and B are wrong leaving only options C. The Marvel Multiverse was created as we see it. Infinite concepts with infinite variations all brought into being with one action.

4) How did Nathaniel Richards become the last Nathaniel Richards when there are infinite Nathaniel Richards?

So why go to all this trouble for these last two questions. Well because it starts to show us the magnitude of the problem in answering the final question. But as far as the fourth question here it doesn't give us anything despite the two questions being similar in nature. In fact it just makes it all the clearer that what Nathaniel Richards claims to have done is impossible. But clearly it isn't because he did it. Truth be told I don’t think there is an answer, or at least one that uses actual logic and not comic logic. This appears to really have just been an error in plotting given the manner in which Nathaniel was shown to have completed the task. Like how Superman can accelerate while flying. Makes no real world sense but we still see it happen every issue so you just roll with it. That said we can sorta theorize about some things to get a pseudo answer.

In questions 2 and 3 we set up answers that allowed us to go from a single moment to the infinite. This makes sense in reality. You can take a whole (the multiverse) that is single in nature (there is only one multiverse) and divided ad infinitum (infinite concepts infinite variations). Just like how you can always keep dividing any number. (1, .5, .25, .125, .0625 and so on)

So theoretically maybe within a comic setting the reverse can be accomplished as well. That the individual piece, as astronomically small as it may appear, can just be multiplied up to where it eventually results in 1. We just have to accept that every Nathaniel Richards was gathered up and set to task killing himself. The act of murder being the multiplication and the manner in which he arrived to being the Whole. No this still doesn't clear up the paradox but whatever.

Why is this important? Because it also establishes that the problem in New Avengers of infinite colliding Earths is in fact real and does stand a chance to end with only one Earth remaining. I realize that this seems rather obvious but it’s nice to have some certainty. (even if it’s built off some wonky comic logic and suspension of belief)

5) How are they going to solve this shyt in New Avengers

So here we are, the final question and the one that everyone cares about. So what we are doing is laying out a better map to visualize than the one Reed gives us in New Avengers. We have these infinite Earths that are all variations of an infinite number of concepts. The infinite nature of variations poses a very interesting question I feel. Namely what exactly is being changed via time travel?

If there are infinite variations then it naturally follows that things like Age of Apocalypse, Age of Ultron, or any other time travel story already happened on their own in their own variation. There is no need for someone to go back in time to create or avoid these alternative universes. They already existed! There is already a universe in which the action someone from Earth 616 is looking to cause via jumping back into their own past. You’re just creating a second universe that mirrors another.

What does this mean?

Well if we visualize all the variations of Earth existing within some sort of space we can sort of figure that it’s rather jam packed with very little room for growth. Yes I realize that a space of infinite space should logically mean that there is room for any expansion however as we see with the Incursions taking place this isn’t the case. If there is infinite room for expansion there should also be infinite room between each Earth meaning collision is impossible. And yet here we are. So there’s no room in the multiverse, or at least very little room. Given what we know above then the unnatural creation of new universes is taking up space that isn't there any longer. They are like a cancer and the fall out of Age of Ultron, the collision of Universes, etc. are all symptoms of a multiverse without room for expansion that is duplicating itself in unnatural means.

How do we solve all this?

Avengers issue 24.now I believe shows us a blue print. Tony Stark’s granddaughter travels back in time (and Franklin Richards is sort of pissed at this) to warn the Avengers about a planet that was sent flying at them and is set to collide with the Earth. This should sound really familiar to anyone reading New Avengers only this time the problem isn’t over Universes dying because of this just Earth and the other planet blowing up.

What do they do? The construct a device that allows the Earth and this other planet occupy the same space at the same time. How? fukk if I know man comics and shyt. But the important thing is we now have two planets in the same space not blowing up.

Now this should all start falling together for everyone at this point. If the problem (and that is a big if I realize) is that the multiverse is out of room and the Earths are colliding into each other this solutions looks really good. We now have a means of taking what was originally going to be a collision and allowing these objects share the same space. Theoretically two universes now could occupy the same area.

Problem solved, everyone goes home happy. Is this how it will play out? No idea. I realize that the description of the problem in that the issue is over space may not actually be what is happening. But I think it’s a really good guess. Anyway, your turn now. I’ve laid out the parts explained them and given some context. So stop reading and start creating your own ideas on what’s happening.
 

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Yes. We need to talk a lot more about what Hickman is up to.

My current theory is this. Reed says "we'll try every good and righteous path." And Swan asks "and when those all fail?"

Think of the Ebony Kings, Black Priests, Map Makers, Sidera Maris, Rabum al alal, etc, and imagine if each one was a solution dreamt up by a particularly motivated version of the illuminati in one reality or another. Now, better yet, imagine if each one is an individual Avenger's solution to the collapse of reality.

Iron Man seeing that all the worlds destructions are inevitable decides to catalog them all figuring he can at least save the data. He is the Sidera Maris.
An Ebony King could be Black Panther. And a Black Priest could be a Do for Strange. Rabum AlAlal could be Galactus or the final Reed Richards or both or who knows.

Or
Maybe Each evil group they face is an extrapolation. Thane. Aim. Hydra. Apocalypse. Or pick a villain. Maybe they are those guys solutions to this? No. It has to be them. Facing their own darkest choices. And they have to save everything? How can in the face of such a negative black future... All the earths paired down to only one or a handful battling it out to be the last... How can our heroes not be destroyed by who hat would make them? And if Hickman answers that dilemma in a way that seems fair and inspiring. Well all this would be worth reading!


Damn, looks like I am late to the party.

Hickman

I always tell readers who ask for Marvel book suggestions to pick up Avengers and New Avengers. They seem to be most integral books to 616 right now. I think Hickman has firmly established himself as the Marvel architect, taking over from Bendis. I remember in one of the CBR's interviews just prior to the Marvel NOW launch, Axel Alonso stating that writers were given the freedom to retroact a plot that will fit into relaunch with their choice of artist. He stated that Hickman came to the office with PPTs and flowcharts underpinning a massive, long winding story. Axel more or less gave the leash of the relaunch to Hickman then. In the same interview series Hickman said that Infinity is going to the first of trilogy of events that forms the milestones to his aforementioned plot. In any case I'm loving what he's doing here. New Avengers is the first book I look out for on wednesdays.

Questions

I'm not necessarily giving out a theory to what he is building but just summarizing the new plot elements Hickman has opened up in his 2 books.Questions that still remain at this point.

  • Cause of Superflow's destruction.
  • Black Swan's identity and motivations
  • Origin of incursions
  • Living Tribunal's death
  • Who are Map Makers, Black Priests, Ivory and Ebony Kings ?
  • Galactus is the universal constant huh. Well he is not in 616 right now.
  • Rabum Alal, the big baddie who or what is it. Hickman has stated that this is completely new threat
  • Honestly I was a bit surprised to see Franklin in Avengers #24
  • Abyss. Her role as the last Abyssi hasn't been fully explored yet.
  • Time Gem. All Infinity gems with the notable exception of time gem has shattered. Time travel is recurring theme in most Marvel books right now.
Black Swan

Black Swan is the most intriguing character Hickman has put out so far. Princess Yabbat Ummon Tarru is no mere female character given to irrelevancies and empty rhetoric juxtaposed against an oversexualized backdrop. Her manipulation is simple and blatant, and as a character it could make her quite enjoyable. The problem with Black Swan is that she's not necessarily a reliable source of info.Firstly because she might be flat out lying, or at least twisting things for her own agenda. And secondly, because she might simply not be right even if she's saying what she believes to be true. How do they know she's not just repeating scary bedtime stories.

Something interesting that I noted recently. Marvel wiki says that Black Swan's name was chosen by Hickman as a reference to the Black Swan Theory introduced by Nassim Nicholas Taleb in his 2001 book Fooled by Randomness and elaborated in his next book The Black Swan. NNT is a scholar and statistician, whose work focuses on problems of randomness, probability and uncertainty. Taleb asserts that what we call here a Black Swan is an event with the following three attributes.

  • First, it is an outlier, as it lies outside the realm of regular expectations, because nothing in the past can convincingly point to its possibility.
  • Second, it carries an extreme 'impact'.
  • Third, in spite of its outlier status, human nature makes us concoct explanations for its occurrence after the fact, making it explainable and predictable.
Rarity, extreme 'impact', and retrospective (though not prospective) predictability. A small number of Black Swans explains almost everything in our world, from the success of ideas and religions, to the dynamics of historical events, to elements of our own personal lives. The central and unique attribute of Taleb's black swan event is high profile. His claim is that almost all consequential events in history come from the unexpected — yet humans later convince themselves that these events are explainable in hindsight. He advocates what he calls a "black swan robust" society, meaning a society that can withstand difficult-to-predict events. He proposes "antifragility" in systems, that is, an ability to benefit and grow from a certain class of random events, errors, and volatility as well as "convex tinkering" as a method of scientific discovery, by which he means that option-like experimentation outperforms directed research.

Hickman is clearly drawing up the plot from NNT. What do you think about this ?

Damn, looks like I am late to the party.

Hickman

I always tell readers who ask for Marvel book suggestions to pick up Avengers and New Avengers. They seem to be most integral books to 616 right now. I think Hickman has firmly established himself as the Marvel architect, taking over from Bendis. I remember in one of the CBR's interviews just prior to the Marvel NOW launch, Axel Alonso stating that writers were given the freedom to retroact a plot that will fit into relaunch with their choice of artist. He stated that Hickman came to the office with PPTs and flowcharts underpinning a massive, long winding story. Axel more or less gave the leash of the relaunch to Hickman then. In the same interview series Hickman said that Infinity is going to the first of trilogy of events that forms the milestones to his aforementioned plot. In any case I'm loving what he's doing here. New Avengers is the first book I look out for on wednesdays.

Questions

I'm not necessarily giving out a theory to what he is building but just summarizing the new plot elements Hickman has opened up in his 2 books.Questions that still remain at this point.

  • Cause of Superflow's destruction.
  • Black Swan's identity and motivations
  • Origin of incursions
  • Living Tribunal's death
  • Who are Map Makers, Black Priests, Ivory and Ebony Kings ?
  • Galactus is the universal constant huh. Well he is not in 616 right now.
  • Rabum Alal, the big baddie who or what is it. Hickman has stated that this is completely new threat
  • Honestly I was a bit surprised to see Franklin in Avengers #24
  • Abyss. Her role as the last Abyssi hasn't been fully explored yet.
  • Time Gem. All Infinity gems with the notable exception of time gem has shattered. Time travel is recurring theme in most Marvel books right now.
Black Swan

Black Swan is the most intriguing character Hickman has put out so far. Princess Yabbat Ummon Tarru is no mere female character given to irrelevancies and empty rhetoric juxtaposed against an oversexualized backdrop. Her manipulation is simple and blatant, and as a character it could make her quite enjoyable. The problem with Black Swan is that she's not necessarily a reliable source of info.Firstly because she might be flat out lying, or at least twisting things for her own agenda. And secondly, because she might simply not be right even if she's saying what she believes to be true. How do they know she's not just repeating scary bedtime stories.

Something interesting that I noted recently. Marvel wiki says that Black Swan's name was chosen by Hickman as a reference to the Black Swan Theory introduced by Nassim Nicholas Taleb in his 2001 book Fooled by Randomness and elaborated in his next book The Black Swan. NNT is a scholar and statistician, whose work focuses on problems of randomness, probability and uncertainty. Taleb asserts that what we call here a Black Swan is an event with the following three attributes.

  • First, it is an outlier, as it lies outside the realm of regular expectations, because nothing in the past can convincingly point to its possibility.
  • Second, it carries an extreme 'impact'.
  • Third, in spite of its outlier status, human nature makes us concoct explanations for its occurrence after the fact, making it explainable and predictable.
Rarity, extreme 'impact', and retrospective (though not prospective) predictability. A small number of Black Swans explains almost everything in our world, from the success of ideas and religions, to the dynamics of historical events, to elements of our own personal lives. The central and unique attribute of Taleb's black swan event is high profile. His claim is that almost all consequential events in history come from the unexpected — yet humans later convince themselves that these events are explainable in hindsight. He advocates what he calls a "black swan robust" society, meaning a society that can withstand difficult-to-predict events. He proposes "antifragility" in systems, that is, an ability to benefit and grow from a certain class of random events, errors, and volatility as well as "convex tinkering" as a method of scientific discovery, by which he means that option-like experimentation outperforms directed research.

Hickman is clearly drawing up the plot from NNT. What do you think about this ?
I was just re-reading Hickman's run on the FF and i came to some very familiar sounding things in issue 600, Things that have made me consider there actually is a Big Bad and not just an Event which i had previously thought. In the subchapter "the Arc" Galactus mentions about how everything in the universe has changed because there is now a "Galactus Seed" on Earth.

this was the same macguffin used in Fraction run of Thor at the time. Galactus mentions the Asgardians hid it somewhere in the World tree and that earth cannot be destroyed or it would become un-anchored and end up somewhere less accessible to him.

What struck me was the language i.e. "Soon your world will break" "the Seed is a celestial mistake...Eternity seeking to correct something that is not flawed" He goes on to talk about his Pupose, to be the first of this universe and also there at the end, at the Heat death of everything, his boundless purpose. life. death. "If born, whatever is in that seed will seek to replace me" and when Sue asks if this galactus might not be better he replies "No, it would not, it would be lacking restraint..Everything Would End...Sooner"

Isn't that the gist of what's going on? Natural heat death isnt happening, worlds are ending too soon, Somewhere in the multiverse this rabum Alal or "Great Destroyer" is taking down whole universes. Also Captain universe keeps saying she lost something and must find it.

In the same FF run it is also implied that Franklin will be there at the end, to Kickstart the rebirth of the universe with Galactus. Im starting to think that the Black Swan we know is an Alternate Valeria, the prince she extracts genetic material from (New Avengers 15) is an Alternate Franklin, perhaps an Inhuman family of Richardses that speak Sumerian on that World. That Library is just too much like The workspace Val inherited from the Reed's and Doom at the end of FF. or maybe i'm a crazy person.

GamiSB said:
In my mind Rabum Alal is not a person or being but just an event. What I've noticed in Black Swans style of speech is that she personifies different things. I'd have to do another reread to point out examples of this but it's just something that has stuck with me since her debut. Rabum Alal to me is sort of like a Greek or Roman God who isn't actually there and just a method of explanation for how certain natural things work. Swan is religion where as the Illuminati are Science.

That said you may be right. In issue 24 there is an unexplained matter that is brought up by two characters and never given a moment of thought. Tony' granddaughter and I believe it's Dr. Banner both comment on how the plant that is allied to collide with Earth wasn't shot from the past (as everyone first assumed) but actually from the future. (Getting all Grant Morrison, time bullet, Final Crisis here now). So you may be right.

Another thought was that the Illuminati and the Avengers soon aren't going to be the only ones who know about the incursions and another race is going to be pretty pissed that their survival depends on the Earths and figure out that destroying Earth removes the problem.
 

Courvoisier Clyde

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Someone on another board said it might be the Magus.

I think it's an evil alternate universe reed richards that hasn't been revealed.


Or an evil franklin richards. Reed said he doesn't believe in violence, and He's the first voice of Hickman's New Avengers arc, saying "Everything dies." he also says he can't tolerate the unnatural acceleration of that end. To have him have to kill the equivalent of his son to stop that, Puts him between a rock and a hard place in so many ways, which makes the most dramatic sense. I also saw someone mention in a convo on another site/board that Black Swan looks like another universe equivalent of valerie richards, which is one of those things which is so spot on you wonder how you never noticed it before. Think about how many convos he's had with her, her distate for magic(spitting at dr strange and dismissing him as a necromancer, her scientific accumen compared with that of valerias) and became even more spot on after I reread the issue with namor assembling the cabal. I can't recall right now but I think there's a panel shift where her and valerie look a alike down to hairstyles. I'd chalk it up to coincidence but I know better.

Or an alternate universe Tony Stark.

life-and-death.jpg


I gotta add more to this post later cause i'm looking for stuff...

I think I'd only be satisfied with alt-Franklin, or Franklin and Rachel Grey's kid, OR
Supes and WW's kid from Kingdom Come II, but yes I know how crazy that sounds
 
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