Essential The Official Comic Book Discussion Thread [Support @Neuromancer’s book!]

[Jmare007]

This pretty much nails how he has become an insufferable character over the last 20 years. If you are going to do underhanded, morally grey/immoral things then at least do it to help your people instead of doing it to save yourself.

What's worse is that in this last issue, they do show him doing it for 1 mutant, saving her from getting stabbed. It's like, why the fukk can't he do that more often?

But then 1 page later they also show how Chuck brings the human that wanted to kill her to the brink of committing suicide, and it's like wtf

 

[parallax]

BRUH

The last time I saw Hank Pym in 616, they had this nikka getting eaten by a monster worm inside of The Soul Gem. Then before that he was that weird Ultron/Hank hybrid. Professor X and Hank have had THE most wildest n disrespectful story archs.

Naw he's back now running around with a bunch of villains to try to stop ultron. They didn't explain how he didn't get his soul eaten in the soul gem, and why he looks so old.

At least Magneto does not hide who he truly is and has spent decades struggling with his demons.

Charles on the other hand has done and continues to do so many underhanded and unethical shhyt while continuing to talk down from his soap box to anyone who disagrees with his actions as if he has the moral high ground.

He has been an insufferable character for about two decades now.

they BOTH do that. the only difference is that people dont ride for charles like they do max

and what doesnt not hiding who you are mean if you are and have always been a terrible person who tells people youre going to change, but dont?. remember when people treated wanda like a monster because of no more mutants and the supposed deaths on her hands? and remember that max is the actual one with a death count in the millions? he does terrible shyt all the time and its supposed to just be accepted because hes a mutant and mutant lives are hard and as such mutants should hate humans, but the a lot of the hate towards mutants was brought on by him and his outbursts. if you dont like charles, thats fine, hes done so much continuously dumb shyt over the years, but its crazy that so many are willing to give max a pass when hes done so much worse, i mean theres a reason wolverine is STILL pissing in his helmet

 

[Neuromancer]

Gonna be at the Brooklyn Comic Con this weekend.

 

[WhenWeWereKings]

Naw he's back now running around with a bunch of villains to try to stop ultron. They didn't explain how he didn't get his soul eaten in the soul gem, and why he looks so old.

they BOTH do that. the only difference is that people dont ride for charles like they do max

and what doesnt not hiding who you are mean if you are and have always been a terrible person who tells people youre going to change, but dont?. remember when people treated wanda like a monster because of no more mutants and the supposed deaths on her hands? and remember that max is the actual one with a death count in the millions? he does terrible shyt all the time and its supposed to just be accepted because hes a mutant and mutant lives are hard and as such mutants should hate humans, but the a lot of the hate towards mutants was brought on by him and his outbursts. if you dont like charles, thats fine, hes done so much continuously dumb shyt over the years, but its crazy that so many are willing to give max a pass when hes done so much worse, i mean theres a reason wolverine is STILL pissing in his helmet

Well I'll put it this way. Charles has continuously done shady shyyt, while berating and morally brow beating people, telling them to be better.

He's the equivalent of the preacher who every Sunday stands up on the pulpit raining judgment on sinners, while engaging, in drunken drug fueled gay orgies with hookers through the middle of the week. That is who Charles Xavier has become.

Of course Max will seem more sympathetic because he has owned up to most of his demons. We are all sinners, some folks just wear it openly without brow beating others into submission about being "better" because they are better at hiding their sins.

 

[parallax]

Well I'll put it this way. Charles has continuously done shady shyyt, while berating and morally brow beating people, telling them to be better.

He's the equivalent of the preacher who every Sunday stands up on the pulpit raining judgment on sinners, while engaging, in drunken drug fueled gay orgies with hookers through the middle of the week. That is who Charles Xavier has become.

Of course Max will seem more sympathetic because he has owned up to most of his demons. We are all sinners, some folks just wear it openly without brow beating others into submission about being "better" because they are better at hiding their sins.

once again, max does the same thing charles does. except he'll browbeat then kill them most times,

the problem with owning up to your demons is that you have to make the effort to change, which max doesnt. a crackhead recognzing theyre a crackhead and the dangers it poses to said crackhead and the people closest to them and the crackhead still doing copious amounts of crack makes it lip service rather than actually trying to change. and rewarding him with a spot on the xmen roster position kinda makes it look like what he did was ok.

once again, it comes down to more people like max over charles so theyre ok with his actions rather than one being worse than the other

 

[Neuromancer]

Well the Krakoan era ended with a thud.

Ending was weak as shyt.

Exodus and Apocalypse throwing tantrums was silly as hell. At least we got to see him beating down the X-Men again.

I feel like that was all stupid. Let's get one quick fight in at the end. Why?

I can't say I'm hyped about things returning to the status quo, but I'll give it a shot.

Me either. I like Gail Simone and Jed McKay so we'll see.

 

[Jmare007]

Who is the Heir of Apocalypse?

I'm not interested in that story but it seems to me they are pushing for Rictor to be the one.

But honestly it wouldn't shock me if it's just a ploy to get a new set of horsemen for En Sabah

 

[R=G]

I'm not interested in that story but it seems to me they are pushing for Rictor to be the one.

But honestly it wouldn't shock me if it's just a ploy to get a new set of horsemen for En Sabah

Crazy this story is happening with Holocaust being dead. His biological son is nowhere to be found. I forgot what happened to the Apocalypse twins from the Uncanny Avengers Remender run. Stryfe is still dead too? Lol.

 

[R=G]

Well I'll put it this way. Charles has continuously done shady shyyt, while berating and morally brow beating people, telling them to be better.

He's the equivalent of the preacher who every Sunday stands up on the pulpit raining judgment on sinners, while engaging, in drunken drug fueled gay orgies with hookers through the middle of the week. That is who Charles Xavier has become.

Of course Max will seem more sympathetic because he has owned up to most of his demons. We are all sinners, some folks just wear it openly without brow beating others into submission about being "better" because they are better at hiding their sins.

It seems strange for Xavier to tap out and give up again like its the end of Onslaught one more time..good little speech between the two.

What was the reason they had Doom get the girl mutant to bring him that object?

 

[R=G]

once again, max does the same thing charles does. except he'll browbeat then kill them most times,

the problem with owning up to your demons is that you have to make the effort to change, which max doesnt. a crackhead recognzing theyre a crackhead and the dangers it poses to said crackhead and the people closest to them and the crackhead still doing copious amounts of crack makes it lip service rather than actually trying to change. and rewarding him with a spot on the xmen roster position kinda makes it look like what he did was ok.

once again, it comes down to more people like max over charles so theyre ok with his actions rather than one being worse than the other

Magneto hasnt made the effort to change? He's been different since joining X Men Red. This is all just a continuation of that.

 

[parallax]

Magneto hasnt made the effort to change? He's been different since joining X Men Red. This is all just a continuation of that.

because he got put on the spot for hiding moira. he wouldnt have been on mars if emma didnt conspire behind his back

 

[MenacingMonk]

Reading an old Daredevil story (Fall From Grace) and it’s probably the most boring story I’ve ever read. How did this writer become employed?

Artwork is like a lower version of early Liefeld. Even the feet are drawn shytty.

 

[WhenWeWereKings]

Now that the Krakoan era is officially over what worked? What didn't? What stood out?

For me Apocalypse, Nightcrawler, Synch, Exodus, Mystique, Storm, Magneto, Doug, Legion got a lot of shine and/or character development.

Storm absolutely ruled this era.

Ewing was easily the most consistently great writer with SWORD and then X-Men Red.

Hellions was the surprise break out book.

The Arrakko Mutants actually were interesting.

The biggest thing that didn't work for me was allowing Shaw and Sinister anywhere near the QC. That was massive incompetence on behalf of all involved. Both have always been untrustworthy and unwilling to serve anyone other than themselves. So when both eventually betrayed the mutants it was eye rolling.

Orchis were never fleshed out as legitimate threats. Considering the powerful mutants that were around, (Proteus, Legion and Jaimie Braddock etc) there is no way they should've been allowed to grow the way that they did. But the plot called for it.

This version of Nimrod was a bumbling idiot. Isn't he supposed to adapt and be able to counter threats? But he behaved like a Saturday morning cartoon villain.

Moira's turn was handled poorly.

There's more I could go on about.

Overall I'll give the Krakoan era a C grade. The idea was an A but once Hickman left it all fell apart and they did not stick the landing.

 

[Jmare007]

Now that the Krakoan era is officially over what worked? What didn't? What stood out?

For me Apocalypse, Nightcrawler, Synch, Exodus, Mystique, Storm, Magneto, Doug, Legion got a lot of shine and/or character development.

Storm absolutely ruled this era.

Ewing was easily the most consistently great writer with SWORD and then X-Men Red.

Hellions was the surprise break out book.

The Arrakko Mutants actually were interesting.

The biggest thing that didn't work for me was allowing Shaw and Sinister anywhere near the QC. That was massive incompetence on behalf of all involved. Both have always been untrustworthy and unwilling to serve anyone other than themselves. So when both eventually betrayed the mutants it was eye rolling.

Orchis were never fleshed out as legitimate threats. Considering the powerful mutants that were around, (Proteus, Legion and Jaimie Braddock etc) there is no way they should've been allowed to grow the way that they did. But the plot called for it.

This version of Nimrod was a bumbling idiot. Isn't he supposed to adapt and be able to counter threats? But he behaved like a Saturday morning cartoon villain.

Moira's turn was handled poorly.

There's more I could go on about.

Overall I'll give the Krakoan era a C grade. The idea was an A but once Hickman left it all fell apart and they did not stick the landing.

Agree with most of it, specially what worked. Apocalypse's retcon + character work, Synch, Storm, everything Ewing did, Hellions, Nightcrawler, Exodus, they all made this era memorable.

The biggest mistake was going from a Krakoan Age centered on Moira to something centered on Sinister. It would've been one thing if Sinister's involvement ended after Sins of Sinister (which was a pretty cool crossover with dope build up) but by that point they had no direction whatsoever so Gillen had carte blanche to double down on him and make everything revolve around him till the very end. And that was never going to be a satisfying ending.

Duggan was a huge, huge disappointment as well. The falloff of his work after his first year post Hickman was consistent. And after the last Hellfire Gala it was just plain bad.

Going from the promise of Moira as a character, her motivations and what the fukk would happen next -which was the big tease of HoX/PoX- to making her a boring cartoony villain was just horrible. Also hated how we went from Doug being a very interesting and compelling wildcard to completely forgotten. Those two plot threads were the ones that hurt the most when it comes to Hickman's main vision. The whole "mutants won in Moira's 10th life" was also such a dope twist that was botched horribly

I'd still give it a B- minus though. The Hickman years had a classic in HoX/PoX and then it was carried by the "promise of a plan that will unfold later", which made the misses not hurt as much. The Gillen/Duggan years had better runs and more interesting books for 2 years basically, but the build to the ending and the ending itself leaves a sour taste.

 

[R=G]

Al Ewing was the lynchpin of what i wanted to read. I was very intrigued by Hope and Exodus. Another fake Jean death was silly.