That was me, told you it was awesome
what's the name of this book?
Is it like X-Men history book?
Essential The Official Comic Book Discussion Thread [Support @Neuromancer’s book!]
- Thread starter MenacingMonk
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what's the name of this book?
Is it like X-Men history book?
@TrueEpic08 what are your favorite books right now?
Jmare007
pico pal q lee
Spider Man - Life Story.
Didn't read the X-Men book so couldn't tell you. Chip Zdarsky writes the Spidey one and dude is pretty flawless with the stuff he writes.
Jmare007
pico pal q lee
So...House of X #2...
Jesus CHRIST, what a terrible piece of writing we've been served by Hickman here.
I'm not even kidding when I say that this might legitimately be the most damaging X-Men comic since at least Avengers vs. X-Men #11-12, maybe even House of M #6-7.
Let me count the ways:
-Making Moira a mutant does serious damage to the comic's underpinning concept of human-mutant relations, since they've made one of Charles's closest human allies into just another mutant. Furthermore, how then does she deal with the Legacy Virus? If you remember, the major reason Moira was able to synthesize a Legacy Virus cure was because she (a human) got infected with it (a nice little metaphor in and of itself for the necessity of harmonious human-mutant relations no matter how difficult). Now, I completely understand where Hickman got the idea to make her a mutant; in fact, it makes a startling amount of sense based on previous continuity. But this is one example of many in this issue alone of Hickman not being able to see the forest for the trees.
-The comic makes Moira, Charles, and maybe even Magneto and Apocalypse look like complete idiots. Without spoiling too much, Destiny outright tells Moira at one point that she's a self-centered idiot scientist that doesn't consider the consequences of her actions, tells her (in her own elliptical Destiny-esque way) what those consequences are, and then "sends" Moira on her way. What does she then do? Spend accumulate lifetimes of scientific and political knowledge, and then puts almost none of the political knowledge to effective use. Destiny literally hands her the point, and she fukks it up completely. And because she's relaying this knowledge to the mutant leaders of the issue (more on this in a minute), she makes THEM look like idiots, because they can't parse through what she's telling them and figure out a better way.
fukk it...
How do you live 9 lifetimes, 5 of which trended toward mutant separatism and 8 of which ended in Sentinels killing everyone, and not understand that a delicate political approach, as opposed to explicit strongman politics, may be needed?How does Charles literally read her mind, gain knowledge of all her lifetimes and how separatism doesn't work, and then STILL perpetuate a soft separatism?
This shouldn't be surprising, actually, since the politics of Hickman's comics have been thoughtlessly moronic at best.
Unless this is meant to be a dig at how utterly stupid scientific types tend to be sometimes when they try to transpose that knowledge to the political arena (thanks for exemplifying this for us Ben Carson/Neil DeGrasse Tyson/Elon Musk/Whatever Silicon Valley jackass as thrown in their hat today), I can't see how this is supposed to do any good to Moira's character.
-The comic makes Moira look like an ineffectual lemming. Any female comic reader extolling the virtues of this comic as a piece of feminist-adjacent writing is hilarious to me, since Moira spends the ENTIRE issue putting her fate in the hands of men who end up failing at doing anything of real worth with her accumulated knowledge. Yeah, real strong character as opposed to the one who directed Excalibur's operations off Muir Isle in the 80s-90s.
And what's so bad about the whole reincarnation plot is that it's actually a pretty great idea. I love the concept of a mutant reincarnate directing mutant history across the generations. Sure, it's just another iteration of Apocalypse, but there's certainly room to do something different with it. Instead, Hickman makes Moira into a follower for most of her lives, saves her actual agency for a burst of absolutely pointless shock value violence (the only politics other than explicit scientism that Hickman really knows), AND fukks up the concept of reincarnation in the process. I'd go on more about this one, but this is long enough as is. I'll just say that, although he stated repeatedly that this isn't a time travel plot, Hickman's actually made something quite a bit worse than that here.
-Gotta spoiler this whole thing:
Going off the last point, this fake reincarnation/actual time loop plot that Hickman himself fukks up in roughly three pages creates so many more holes for fukkery and nonsense in the X-Men line. Too many timelines/versions of the main timeline/what-the-fukk-ever for editors not to exploit with a bunch of useless landfill miniseries. Wasn't he the one going on about the X-Men's continuity not making sense, then he pulls THIS garbage? And people had the temerity to say I was exaggerating about Hickman being an arrogant jackass. I guarantee that this is going to either be ignored or retconned within 5 years of Hickman leaving the franchise, because it causes way, way too many problems for anyone who wants to do anything effective with the X-Men mythos. Despite how Morrison-influenced this whole run seems to be, Hickman doesn't seem to have learned the knack for simplicity that made New X-Men's major concepts work AT ALL.
All of this bullshyt mainly because he has to service his X/10 numerology concept, to the detriment of everything else around it.
None of that even touches the character writing. That all sucks too. A bunch of ciphers by which he mediates his precious ideas, like basically every other Hickman-written comic.
fukk this trash. The more I think about it the angrier I get. AND I didn't even get to every gripe I had with it.
I wish I could burn every issue of this comic from existence.
Go watch the Strong BJ match I recommended in the puro thread breh, for once take my advice.
Jesus man you really have some strong thoughts.So...House of X #2...
Jesus CHRIST, what a terrible piece of writing we've been served by Hickman here.
I'm not even kidding when I say that this might legitimately be the most damaging X-Men comic since at least Avengers vs. X-Men #11-12, maybe even House of M #6-7.
Let me count the ways:
-Making Moira a mutant does serious damage to the comic's underpinning concept of human-mutant relations, since they've made one of Charles's closest human allies into just another mutant. Furthermore, how then does she deal with the Legacy Virus? If you remember, the major reason Moira was able to synthesize a Legacy Virus cure was because she (a human) got infected with it (a nice little metaphor in and of itself for the necessity of harmonious human-mutant relations no matter how difficult). Now, I completely understand where Hickman got the idea to make her a mutant; in fact, it makes a startling amount of sense based on previous continuity. But this is one example of many in this issue alone of Hickman not being able to see the forest for the trees.
-The comic makes Moira, Charles, and maybe even Magneto and Apocalypse look like complete idiots. Without spoiling too much, Destiny outright tells Moira at one point that she's a self-centered idiot scientist that doesn't consider the consequences of her actions, tells her (in her own elliptical Destiny-esque way) what those consequences are, and then "sends" Moira on her way. What does she then do? Spend accumulate lifetimes of scientific and political knowledge, and then puts almost none of the political knowledge to effective use. Destiny literally hands her the point, and she fukks it up completely. And because she's relaying this knowledge to the mutant leaders of the issue (more on this in a minute), she makes THEM look like idiots, because they can't parse through what she's telling them and figure out a better way.
fukk it...
How do you live 9 lifetimes, 5 of which trended toward mutant separatism and 8 of which ended in Sentinels killing everyone, and not understand that a delicate political approach, as opposed to explicit strongman politics, may be needed?
Unless this is meant to be a dig at how utterly stupid scientific types tend to be sometimes when they try to transpose that knowledge to the political arena (thanks for exemplifying this for us Ben Carson/Neil DeGrasse Tyson/Elon Musk/Whatever Silicon Valley jackass as thrown in their hat today), I can't see how this is supposed to do any good to Moira's character.
-The comic makes Moira look like an ineffectual lemming. Any female comic reader extolling the virtues of this comic as a piece of feminist-adjacent writing is hilarious to me, since Moira spends the ENTIRE issue putting her fate in the hands of men who end up failing at doing anything of real worth with her accumulated knowledge. Yeah, real strong character as opposed to the one who directed Excalibur's operations off Muir Isle in the 80s-90s.
And what's so bad about the whole reincarnation plot is that it's actually a pretty great idea. I love the concept of a mutant reincarnate directing mutant history across the generations. Sure, it's just another iteration of Apocalypse, but there's certainly room to do something different with it. Instead, Hickman makes Moira into a follower for most of her lives, saves her actual agency for a burst of absolutely pointless shock value violence (the only politics other than explicit scientism that Hickman really knows), AND fukks up the concept of reincarnation in the process. I'd go on more about this one, but this is long enough as is. I'll just say that, although he stated repeatedly that this isn't a time travel plot, Hickman's actually made something quite a bit worse than that here.
-Gotta spoiler this whole thing:
Going off the last point, this fake reincarnation/actual time loop plot that Hickman himself fukks up in roughly three pages creates so many more holes for fukkery and nonsense in the X-Men line. Too many timelines/versions of the main timeline/what-the-fukk-ever for editors not to exploit with a bunch of useless landfill miniseries. Wasn't he the one going on about the X-Men's continuity not making sense, then he pulls THIS garbage? And people had the temerity to say I was exaggerating about Hickman being an arrogant jackass. I guarantee that this is going to either be ignored or retconned within 5 years of Hickman leaving the franchise, because it causes way, way too many problems for anyone who wants to do anything effective with the X-Men mythos. Despite how Morrison-influenced this whole run seems to be, Hickman doesn't seem to have learned the knack for simplicity that made New X-Men's major concepts work AT ALL.
All of this bullshyt mainly because he has to service his X/10 numerology concept, to the detriment of everything else around it.
None of that even touches the character writing. That all sucks too. A bunch of ciphers by which he mediates his precious ideas, like basically every other Hickman-written comic.
fukk this trash. The more I think about it the angrier I get. AND I didn't even get to every gripe I had with it.
I wish I could burn every issue of this comic from existence.
Edit: Actually, one more thought:
I might cut this comic a little more slack if it turns out that that Moira's multiple lives are actually a meditation on the ineffectiveness of multiple timelines/continuities/retconning in general, because that's actually a legitimately brilliant idea. Thing is, I've seen that sort of metacommentary on reading/writing/publishing comics done much better elsewhere (so many of Grant Morrison's works, for one. And Alan Moore's Supreme is basically all about this).
Plot holes happen.
Take some comfort in knowing Hickman said about HoX/PoX:
You play with the toys and then put them back.
pretty sure this all wraps up with Moira making the right decision and then X-men #1 is the start of her 11th life.
The Lord Doc
Pro
That's quite the retcon, Hickman. Can't wait to see the shyt storm that this caused. If TrueEpic's post is any indication, it should make for some entertaining reading.
TrueEpic08
Dum Shiny
Only mainstream book I read is Immortal Hulk, which is sometimes legitimately great, sometimes merely good, and sometimes going into waters I don't care for at all. I still recommend it to everyone I talk to about mainstream comics, mostly because it's everything I wanted the Bruce Jones Hulk run to be before it so badly fell off a cliff.
I'm currently waiting with bated breath to see how The Wicked + The Divine ends. It's not the best Kieron Gillen comic (that would be Phonogram), but Gillen has a real knack for both writing interesting scenarios and great characters that work within said scenarios (most comic writers can't even manage one). I loved the solution he came up with for a major problem in the comic's last issue, mainly because it was such a simple solution that most people wouldn't have even tried it.
I'm currently reading through Criminal, and though I'm not LOVING it the way I've loved some of Brubaker's other work, it's very good, simple crime fiction. Only way he could probably really disappoint me is by Coward's Way Out sucking.
Southern b*stards is also great, though I'm not sure if Aaron and Latour are still producing it with all of the Thor work the former has been doing.
Thing is, I've been reading a lot of older comics for the most part. Like, I did a run through of most of Alan Moore's DC work and From Hell a while back, and I don't understand how people can call some of the garbage we read these days good writing. Swamp Thing, some of his worst material from the 1982-1988 period (despite how stunningly great it all is) absolutely shyts on some of the best comics we get today 10 times over. Don't even get me started on the gulf between something like From Hell and modern mainstream comics. Comics these days barely have the temerity to make sense.
Those are off the top of my head. I should come up with a better list at some point in the future when I think about it more. Just know that I'm EXTREMELY burned out on superhero comics, and mostly have been for about a decade (don't know if you can tell...).
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richaveli83
Veteran
Just finished House of X #2. Moira is a mutant now?! 
Someone enlighten me because I don't recall them bringing her back to life since the whole legacy virus thing.
Also I thought the OG Pyro died in the 90s thanks to the Legacy Virus. I know they introduced a new Pyro in X-Men Gold but he ended up joining the X-Men.
Also I thought Destiny was dead since the 80s.
Someone enlighten me because I don't recall them bringing her back to life since the whole legacy virus thing.Also I thought the OG Pyro died in the 90s thanks to the Legacy Virus. I know they introduced a new Pyro in X-Men Gold but he ended up joining the X-Men.
Also I thought Destiny was dead since the 80s.
So...House of X #2...
Jesus CHRIST, what a terrible piece of writing we've been served by Hickman here.
I'm not even kidding when I say that this might legitimately be the most damaging X-Men comic since at least Avengers vs. X-Men #11-12, maybe even House of M #6-7.
Let me count the ways:
-Making Moira a mutant does serious damage to the comic's underpinning concept of human-mutant relations, since they've made one of Charles's closest human allies into just another mutant. Furthermore, how then does she deal with the Legacy Virus? If you remember, the major reason Moira was able to synthesize a Legacy Virus cure was because she (a human) got infected with it (a nice little metaphor in and of itself for the necessity of harmonious human-mutant relations no matter how difficult). Now, I completely understand where Hickman got the idea to make her a mutant; in fact, it makes a startling amount of sense based on previous continuity. But this is one example of many in this issue alone of Hickman not being able to see the forest for the trees.
-The comic makes Moira, Charles, and maybe even Magneto and Apocalypse look like complete idiots. Without spoiling too much, Destiny outright tells Moira at one point that she's a self-centered idiot scientist that doesn't consider the consequences of her actions, tells her (in her own elliptical Destiny-esque way) what those consequences are, and then "sends" Moira on her way. What does she then do? Spend accumulate lifetimes of scientific and political knowledge, and then puts almost none of the political knowledge to effective use. Destiny literally hands her the point, and she fukks it up completely. And because she's relaying this knowledge to the mutant leaders of the issue (more on this in a minute), she makes THEM look like idiots, because they can't parse through what she's telling them and figure out a better way.
fukk it...
How do you live 9 lifetimes, 5 of which trended toward mutant separatism and 8 of which ended in Sentinels killing everyone, and not understand that a delicate political approach, as opposed to explicit strongman politics, may be needed?
Unless this is meant to be a dig at how utterly stupid scientific types tend to be sometimes when they try to transpose that knowledge to the political arena (thanks for exemplifying this for us Ben Carson/Neil DeGrasse Tyson/Elon Musk/Whatever Silicon Valley jackass as thrown in their hat today), I can't see how this is supposed to do any good to Moira's character.
-The comic makes Moira look like an ineffectual lemming. Any female comic reader extolling the virtues of this comic as a piece of feminist-adjacent writing is hilarious to me, since Moira spends the ENTIRE issue putting her fate in the hands of men who end up failing at doing anything of real worth with her accumulated knowledge. Yeah, real strong character as opposed to the one who directed Excalibur's operations off Muir Isle in the 80s-90s.
And what's so bad about the whole reincarnation plot is that it's actually a pretty great idea. I love the concept of a mutant reincarnate directing mutant history across the generations. Sure, it's just another iteration of Apocalypse, but there's certainly room to do something different with it. Instead, Hickman makes Moira into a follower for most of her lives, saves her actual agency for a burst of absolutely pointless shock value violence (the only politics other than explicit scientism that Hickman really knows), AND fukks up the concept of reincarnation in the process. I'd go on more about this one, but this is long enough as is. I'll just say that, although he stated repeatedly that this isn't a time travel plot, Hickman's actually made something quite a bit worse than that here.
-Gotta spoiler this whole thing:
Going off the last point, this fake reincarnation/actual time loop plot that Hickman himself fukks up in roughly three pages creates so many more holes for fukkery and nonsense in the X-Men line. Too many timelines/versions of the main timeline/what-the-fukk-ever for editors not to exploit with a bunch of useless landfill miniseries. Wasn't he the one going on about the X-Men's continuity not making sense, then he pulls THIS garbage? And people had the temerity to say I was exaggerating about Hickman being an arrogant jackass. I guarantee that this is going to either be ignored or retconned within 5 years of Hickman leaving the franchise, because it causes way, way too many problems for anyone who wants to do anything effective with the X-Men mythos. Despite how Morrison-influenced this whole run seems to be, Hickman doesn't seem to have learned the knack for simplicity that made New X-Men's major concepts work AT ALL.
All of this bullshyt mainly because he has to service his X/10 numerology concept, to the detriment of everything else around it.
None of that even touches the character writing. That all sucks too. A bunch of ciphers by which he mediates his precious ideas, like basically every other Hickman-written comic.
fukk this trash. The more I think about it the angrier I get. AND I didn't even get to every gripe I had with it.
I wish I could burn every issue of this comic from existence.
Edit: Actually, one more thought:
I might cut this comic a little more slack if it turns out that that Moira's multiple lives are actually a meditation on the ineffectiveness of multiple timelines/continuities/retconning in general, because that's actually a legitimately brilliant idea. Thing is, I've seen that sort of metacommentary on reading/writing/publishing comics done much better elsewhere (so many of Grant Morrison's works, for one. And Alan Moore's Supreme is basically all about this).
I respect the passion, fam. I'll have to read tonight
MenacingMonk
Tranquilo
I only read the first line of @richaveli83 and @TrueEpic08 posts and Y’all mu fukkas already spoiling HoX. 
It’s not a big deal, but come on.
It’s not a big deal, but come on.
King having Captain Atom get his ass kicked was bad enough but then he was a broken whiny bytch afterwards.Right after I read DCeased 4 I read Batman 76.
The nerve of King to make Cap Atom a jobber to his pet project creation.
And what moron told the artist that Captain Atom can be bruised up? He is in an impenetrable fukking atomic shell. That aint fukking skin.
House of X #2 was :thewhoopi:
The only good part of it was the Mystique and Destiny parts.
To his credit Hickman made Destiny as formidable as she should have always been portrayed but was very rarely shown to be by most of the writers who used her in their stories.
The only good part of it was the Mystique and Destiny parts.
To his credit Hickman made Destiny as formidable as she should have always been portrayed but was very rarely shown to be by most of the writers who used her in their stories.
Everyone is in the dark right now. We're not sure where this story takes place in the timeline of the X-MenJust finished House of X #2. Moira is a mutant now?!
Also I thought the OG Pyro died in the 90s thanks to the Legacy Virus. I know they introduced a new Pyro in X-Men Gold but he ended up joining the X-Men.
Also I thought Destiny was dead since the 80s.
How do you live 9 lifetimes, 5 of which trended toward mutant separatism and 8 of which ended in Sentinels killing everyone, and not understand that a delicate political approach, as opposed to explicit strongman politics, may be needed?
I was reading it like...OK, in one of these lives Moira and Xavier are going to get into politics and Chuck is going to use his power to ascend to higher office while nudging other pols into siding with him on his pro-mutant agenda. But nope, she just seemed to get dumber and dumber with every new lifetime.