Essential The Official Boxing Random Thoughts Thread...All boxing heads ENTER.

[David_TheMan]

Sorry then, you can ignore it then but in general it is true.

I disagree with you though...

"Jacobs to me was perfect because it got GGG acclimated with fighting someone who moves" Canelo is not a big mover in general

"who has the power to hurt him and end it" I can give this to you but then again... hurt him on completely different ways in a different style

"and someone who would tie him up and smother him." Canelo doesn't really tie up or smother his opponents, sometimes he does but not more than the average... Canelo is an aggressive counter-puncher who likes to stay in the pocket and is great at combination punching plus he has a nice jab. For defense he rather pivots and rolls, ducks, etc... or put up a high guard sometimes but only at rare instances is he moving laterally or backwards behind his jab.

and I said let's move on with the power cause it's highly unlikely that Canelo's power won't be enough to AT LEAST stop Golovkin from just steamroll him but more importantly it's that he knows how to land his power shots better than the likes of Lemieux.

If you talking to me talk to me about what I've said, I'm not in the game of arguing for other people.

Canelo is going to have to move to survive, if he doesn't he will be knocked out. You don't stay in the pocket against GGG you either are all the way out or in tight and smothering.

Jacobs hurt him to the body and was backing GGG up 2nd half of fight. and GGG said he had the upmost respect for Jacobs power going in and after the fight because he felt it and knew he could just push on him like he did alot of lesser fighters. Does Canelo have this level of power? We will see, I don't think he does, but that isn't the biggest knock on him in this fight to me.

Canelo is going to have to tie up and smother when he is on the inside or either work on the inside and its something he doesn't like doing. This is another problem for him, also you are right, I like to call Canelo a combination counterer who fights in spurts. Thats a bad thing for him, the spurts and the combos when countering against a guy like GGG.

Again I brought up power because GGG brought it up and claimed that Canelo had more power than Jacobs and Lemeiux. Both false, he doesn't. Simple as that.

 

[reservoirdogs]

If you talking to me talk to me about what I've said, I'm not in the game of arguing for other people.

Canelo is going to have to move to survive, if he doesn't he will be knocked out. You don't stay in the pocket against GGG you either are all the way out or in tight and smothering.

Jacobs hurt him to the body and was backing GGG up 2nd half of fight. and GGG said he had the upmost respect for Jacobs power going in and after the fight because he felt it and knew he could just push on him like he did alot of lesser fighters. Does Canelo have this level of power? We will see, I don't think he does, but that isn't the biggest knock on him in this fight to me.

Canelo is going to have to tie up and smother when he is on the inside or either work on the inside and its something he doesn't like doing. This is another problem for him, also you are right, I like to call Canelo a combination counterer who fights in spurts. Thats a bad thing for him, the spurts and the combos when countering against a guy like GGG.

Again I brought up power because GGG brought it up and claimed that Canelo had more power than Jacobs and Lemeiux. Both false, he doesn't. Simple as that.

@Newzz too



I disagree that he's gonna get KOd if he doesn't move around. His defense is just ducking and weaving occasionally putting up a high guard not fighting out of a jab while he moves laterally. Why you automatically assume that he can't defend himself successfully with his own style of defense? He is a better defensive fighter than Golovkin and also faster as far as I'm concerned so I see no reason why he couldn't stay in the pocket with Golovkin.

David, you said you agree Canelo is a counter puncher. Now if we agree on this, tell me what style of fighters counter punchers likes the most? Exactly, pressure fighters and brawlers who have leakier defense. Sounds like GGG to me.

Also you forget that "not moving around" can be very good against GGG even if this sounds off at first. Important to note that not moving arund =/= having no defense.
GGG relies on forward momentum actually most of his opponents ran from him and he liked that cause he could build his pressure further and further until he broke down hi opponents. GGG doesn't like phone booth wars in the middle of the ring. Jacobs had some of his most successful rounds when he stood his ground and eve pushed Golovkin back multiple times not certainly when he was on the move.
So Golovkin doesn't like to fight standing, he relies on forward momentum but this wouldn't even be so problematic for him against Canelo but Golovkin also has a preferred range. If he gets too close he rather takes some steps back to recharge and restart his offense than roughing his opponent up up close. So if someone with a good defense and good counters stands his ground against him there's a good chance that he often has to step back and start his offense again so he can't rely on forward momentum which is the very basis of his style. At the opposite end Canelo likes to fight in the middle of the ring and he also likes when opponents come at him.

Of course there are factors which are bad for Canelo for example his stupid tendency sometimes to invite opponents to the ropes and his suspect stamina but I think he will realize the level of threat in Golovkin so he won't do the first and I think his stamina also improved ad possibly will improve further until September.

I think Canelo will win via late TKO or UD because of the reasons above. I think he hold the stylistic edge too and he is better at more elements of the sport than Golovkin now. I could also mention that he is fresher and has more experience with elite level opposition even if not the same style elite opposition as Golovkin.

 

[David_TheMan]

@Newzz too



I disagree that he's gonna get KOd if he doesn't move around. His defense is just ducking and weaving occasionally putting up a high guard not fighting out of a jab while he moves laterally. Why you automatically assume that he can't defend himself successfully with his own style of defense? He is a better defensive fighter than Golovkin and also faster as far as I'm concerned so I see no reason why he couldn't stay in the pocket with Golovkin.

David, you said you agree Canelo is a counter puncher. Now if we agree on this, tell me what style of fighters counter punchers likes the most? Exactly, pressure fighters and brawlers who have leakier defense. Sounds like GGG to me.

Also you forget that "not moving around" can be very good against GGG even if this sounds off at first. Important to note that not moving arund =/= having no defense.
GGG relies on forward momentum actually most of his opponents ran from him and he liked that cause he could build his pressure further and further until he broke down hi opponents. GGG doesn't like phone booth wars in the middle of the ring. Jacobs had some of his most successful rounds when he stood his ground and eve pushed Golovkin back multiple times not certainly when he was on the move.
So Golovkin doesn't like to fight standing, he relies on forward momentum but this wouldn't even be so problematic for him against Canelo but Golovkin also has a preferred range. If he gets too close he rather takes some steps back to recharge and restart his offense than roughing his opponent up up close. So if someone with a good defense and good counters stands his ground against him there's a good chance that he often has to step back and start his offense again so he can't rely on forward momentum which is the very basis of his style. At the opposite end Canelo likes to fight in the middle of the ring and he also likes when opponents come at him.

Of course there are factors which are bad for Canelo for example his stupid tendency sometimes to invite opponents to the ropes and his suspect stamina but I think he will realize the level of threat in Golovkin so he won't do the first and I think his stamina also improved ad possibly will improve further until September.

I think Canelo will win via late TKO or UD because of the reasons above. I think he hold the stylistic edge too and he is better at more elements of the sport than Golovkin now. I could also mention that he is fresher and has more experience with elite level opposition even if not the same style elite opposition as Golovkin.

Its okay to disagree.
His defense isn't great and he doesn't sustain it, which is why often he will just cover up and walk back to the ropes and sit. This is going to cost him against GGG.
He is better defensively than GGG, but GGG is better offensively than Canelo. he stays in the pocket he will get clipped and hurt and its over for him.

I said Canelo is a combination counterer who fights in spurts. Its the spurts that will kill him and the sustained combinations that will leave him open to counters. If he isn't pot shotting he should be on the inside banging the body and tying up. That said again these styles or strategies aren't in his wheelhouse.

Moving at GGG is good, making him go back, turning him is good, but Canelo doesn't do that often enough, he is a bit flat footed IMHO. I agree GGG isn't really great on the inside, thing is, Canelo doesn't like to fight and stay on the inside.

I think if Canelo had shown me better stamina, if he shown me he was going to invest in better trainers, if he showed a greater dedication to getting better, especially with his conditioniig I would say he is the favorite, but I haven't seen that yet. He is content in running his camp, he moves up in weight and is still gassing and fighting in spurts, just doesn't leave me inspired or positive about the results for him.

 

[reservoirdogs]

It seems like everyone forgot how it's a basic knowledge among boxing fans for years that Canelo is at his best when the opponents come at him while he rather struggles when he has to cut off the ring.
Now Golovkin apparently is a nightmare matchup for him cause Canelo doesn't move around?
Golovkin won't pose any new stylistic challenge to Canelo. He is a more aware pressure fighter but still has a leaky D

 

[GREENandYELLOW]

GGG is either stupid or blowing smoke up Canelo's ass because Canelo has nowhere near the power of Lemieux or Jacobs.

Hell jacobs was the perfect fight to take before this fight honestly.

I took at a case where GGG's answer didnt quite matchup to the question (watching the video). I think he just misunderstood the question a bit. IMO, GGG responded saying Canelo has the best power, but if you look at his respond I think he meant that Canelo is his best opponent because he is the best champion he has fought.

You could also look at the next questioning where he criticizes Canelo for not KO'ing JCC.

 

[Newzz]

It seems like everyone forgot how it's a basic knowledge among boxing fans for years that Canelo is at his best when the opponents come at him while he rather struggles when he has to cut off the ring.
Now Golovkin apparently is a nightmare matchup for him cause Canelo doesn't move around?

name 1 "come forward" Boxer Canelo has faced that's even close to GGG's level? There isn't any.



So how can you compare Canelo beating up the likes of Alfredo Angulo, James Kirkland, Liam Smith, and Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.....to what Canelo would do to someone the caliber/power/skill of GGG stalking him?



That's like me saying:


It seems like everyone forgot how it's a basic knowledge among boxing fans for years that GGG is at his best when they stand in the pocket with him while he rather struggles when he has to chase a mover down.
Now Canelo apparently is a nightmare matchup for him cause GGG doesn't have the fastest hands?

 

[The axe murderer]

name 1 "come forward" Boxer Canelo has faced that's even close to GGG's level? There isn't any.



So how can you compare Canelo beating up the likes of Alfredo Angulo, James Kirkland, Liam Smith, and Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.....to what Canelo would do to someone the caliber/power/skill of GGG stalking him?



That's like me saying:


It seems like everyone forgot how it's a basic knowledge among boxing fans for years that GGG is at his best when they stand in the pocket with him while he rather struggles when he has to chase a mover down.
Now Canelo apparently is a nightmare matchup for him cause GGG doesn't have the fastest hands?

That is true when it comes to pressure fighters GGG is in a league of his own. Although I don't think he has fought anyone as savvy as canelo in the pocket though. Canelo need to stay off the damn ropes tho

 

[Newzz]

That is true when it comes to pressure fighters GGG is in a league of his own. Although I don't think he has fought anyone as savvy as canelo in the pocket though.

True...but I haven't seen anyone picking GGG to win bc of what he's done to much lesser opposition than Canelo.


People who pick Canelo typically bring up what he's done to poor opposition who's nowhere near the same continent of skill as GGG.


I could see if they were near GGG level, but they aren't, so it doesnt hold any weight.

 

[reservoirdogs]

name 1 "come forward" Boxer Canelo has faced that's even close to GGG's level? There isn't any.



So how can you compare Canelo beating up the likes of Alfredo Angulo, James Kirkland, Liam Smith, and Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.....to what Canelo would do to someone the caliber/power/skill of GGG stalking him?



That's like me saying:


It seems like everyone forgot how it's a basic knowledge among boxing fans for years that GGG is at his best when they stand in the pocket with him while he rather struggles when he has to chase a mover down.
Now Canelo apparently is a nightmare matchup for him cause GGG doesn't have the fastest hands?

Golovkin isn't at hi best when somebody STAYS in the pocket with him he's at his best when the opponents back down in straight lines from him. As said he relies on forward momentum but that can be nullified with either standing still )staying in the pocket while being defensively responsible) or moving laterally. Of course one needs to be on a high level too to pull it off but Canelo is on high level.

It's a general knowledge that counter punchers are at their best when they face pressure fighters or brawlers that's why I say Canelo has the stylistic upper hand even if Golovkin really is on a higher level than the likes of Angulo, Chavez, Smith or Kirkland

 

[reservoirdogs]

That is true when it comes to pressure fighters GGG is in a league of his own. Although I don't think he has fought anyone as savvy as canelo in the pocket though. Canelo need to stay off the damn ropes tho

He is not in a league of his own. He is among the best pressure fighters today but not a league of his own.

 

[The axe murderer]

True...but I haven't seen anyone picking GGG to win bc of what he's done to much lesser opposition than Canelo.


People who pick Canelo typically bring up what he's done to poor opposition who's nowhere near the same continent of skill as GGG.


I could see if they were near GGG level, but they aren't, so it doesnt hold any weight.

Makes for an intriguing match up. They have no common opponents to really compare with and I don't think they have faced fighters with their styles. I mean what sparring partners do you bring in that emulates em? GGG has that unorthodox EE punching technique that has strange angles and Canelo has lightning quick counters and some of the best combination punching around.

 

[reservoirdogs]

Makes for an intriguing match up. They have no common opponents to really compare with and I don't think they have faced fighters with their styles. I mean what sparring partners do you bring in that emulates em? GGG has that unorthodox EE punching technique that has strange angles and Canelo has lightning quick counters and some of the best combination punching around.

nah he is as textbook as it comes
I don't even say this as a bad thing now but the whole EE system is about teaching them everything "right". You don't often see unortodox EE fighters and Golovkin is also a pretty textbook pressure fighter he's just very good at that.

 

[The axe murderer]

He is not in a league of his own. He is among the best pressure fighters today but not a league of his own.

I don't know breh I ain't seen one that has his jab, power and smarts. Not saying he is unbeatable and he has flaws of course but he is pretty damn effective with it. Now when or if he does decide to move up in weight will it carry over well is what I wonder because dudes are stronger and more durable but SMW isn't exactly strong right now

 

[The axe murderer]

nah he is as textbook as it comes
I don't even say this as a bad thing now but the whole EE system is about teaching them everything "right". You don't often see unortodox EE fighters and Golovkin is also a pretty textbook pressure fighter he's just very good at that.

Oh yeah but what I mean is some of the punches he has that come in at odd angles. Canelo though is good defensively so he will be cautious of em. Just has those odd ones like the one he threw against Rubio

 

[Bigblackted4]

The body shots in the first one made me jump in my chair. Dude probably pissed blood that night.