Essential The Official Boxing Random Thoughts Thread...All boxing heads ENTER.
- Thread starter Jesus Is Lord
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The axe murderer
For I am death and I ride on a pale horse
Robinson was undrrrated
Hey Bread,
While I don't think he's a bum by any means and he's certainly a legitimate opponent for Spence, I'm wondering if people are giving Garcia too much credit as a welterweight? His best overall wins have all come at junior welterweight. As to welterweight, his best wins have come against a washed-up Robert Guerrero, a washed-up Paulie Malinaggi, and a catchweight fight at 143 lbs. against Lamont Peterson that many people believe Garcia lost (and he certainly LOOKED like he lost come the end of that fight). His other welterweight victories are against gatekeeper level types. When he has fought next-level welterweights like Thurman and Porter, he lost. The one belt he won at welterweight was a vacant title against Guerrero, and like I said, Guerrero was a shell of his old self at that point.
It's a good fight tomorrow and I plan to pay for it because I want to see what Spence has left following the accident, but until he proves otherwise, I feel like Garcia is not quite fast enough, strong enough, or athletic enough to defeat the elites at welterweight. He can COMPETE, but I have my doubts that he can DEFEAT.
Thoughts?
Bread’s Response: I’m posting this comment because many feel the way you feel about Danny Garcia’s legacy. I thought his resume was SOLID but not spectacular. I didn’t think it was as good as say Miguel Cotto’s. But I did feel as though a win over Spence would put him in the HOF because of Spence’s current status. And despite some close calls I do think consistent winning does count for something.
The thing about a resume is most can be nitpicked. So let’s look at Danny’s. Beating Kendall **** in that title eliminator was solid. **** is a very capable fighter.
Beating Erik Morales for the title at 140 is a nice win. It’s not great because Morales was 35 and an ex 122 pounder. But he was the champion so you have to respect it.
Beating Amir Khan when he did was very, very good. Khan was coming off a controversial loss to Peterson but Danny was the underdog. We can’t change history after the fact. I know Khan is not a great fighter, but he was a great talent and in 2012 most thought Danny wasn’t ready.
The Zab Judah and Erik Morales rematch wins were good matchmaking. If you can match a champion with aging BIG names you still do it.
Lucas Matthysse looks now to be overrated but no one thought that in 2013. Danny faced him and beat him and that’s his career APEX. Danny was 25. Excellent win.
Directly after Danny had sort of a let down fight and struggled vs Mauricio Herrera.
He then takes another showcase vs Rod Salka. He caught flack for that. I understand why to be honest.
Then he fights Lamont Peterson at a catchweight and struggles again. That was tough on his reputation because he was still getting flack for the Herrera fight.
He fights Paulie Malignaggi is showcase fight in Brooklyn, which again is smart because Malignaggi is from Brooklyn and he’s a recognizable name.
He wins his 2nd title vs Robert Guerrero for a vacant strap. Guerrero wasn’t shot, he had a decent performance vs Thurman but he wasn’t prime either. Nice win.
Then Danny takes another tune up vs Samuel Vargas. No big deal.
In his next fight he tries to unify vs Keith Thurman and loses in a solid performance.
He comes back against another recognizable name in Brandon Rios.
Then fights Shawn Porter and loses again in a competitive fight.
He comes back and fights 2 more showcases vs Granados and Redkach before taking on Spence.
Ok so there are levels of separation in his performances. **** was handled better by Tim Bradley than he was by Danny Garcia. But Bradley is HOF. Erik Morales was kod by Manny Pacquiao in 2006 at 130lbs. Danny struggled with him at 140 in 2012. But Pacman is an ATG. Zab Judah was kod in 2 by Kostya Tszyu in 2001. Danny had a tough night with him in 2013. But Tszyu is one of the great juniorwelters ever.
The triangle theory doesn’t work as far as who can beat who. But it does indicate level of dominance when looking at common opponents. I say this to say I don’t get why everyone is so hard on Danny and Angel. He overachieved in MY opinion. He never looked like Carlos Ortiz or Wilfred Benitez . I didn’t think Danny would go 50-0 through 3 divisions. He was a solid fighter. A nice looking kid. A kid with a big punch and good chin, that made a boat load of money and won some nice fights. Why does he get such harsh criticism? I don’t understand it. He did the best he could. And with smart people behind him he OUT KICKED his COVERAGE.
Were there any expectations of Danny being the Greatest fighter of Puerto Rican decent. Was he ever like Fleix Trinidad? I feel as though criticism should be relative to projection or expectations. Unless there was a projection of Danny being an All Time Great then I think it’s ridiculous to hear some of the things I hear about him.
What I observed about Danny and his brain trust is they don’t over match him. When he takes a tough fight, he gets rewarded with a showcase fight. Sometimes two in a row to build momentum. I think fans are hard on Danny because he benefits from matchmaking. But that’s not his fault. It’s his team’s responsibility to do what’s best for him.
Not everyone wants to take on Wilfred Benitez, Roberto Duran 2x, Ayub Kalule and Tommy Hearns in less than 2 years like Ray Leonard. But his talent level is different. Brain trust can’t tell a fighter certain things, but they do smart moves to preserve their status when it’s possible. Danny and his team really spreaded his tough fights out. In 8 years he took 5 fights that he had a 50% chance or more to LOSE. And in those fights vs the better fighters in their primes he’s 2-3. He beat Khan and Matthysse but lost to Porter, Thurman and Spence. But he took the tough fights when he had to. People are hard on Danny but there are way more ENABLED fighters in his PBC stable and of this era. I won’t name anyone because that’s not my style, but there is a welterweight who fought in Danny’s era that got bigger money to fight lesser guys and he lost to way lesser fighters than Danny and still kept getting nice pay days. This is not a Philly thing. I just really think you guys overlook other privileged fighters and fixate on Danny. He signed to face Spence before the accident. He deserves some credit for that.
I think it’s reasonable to say that Danny Garcia is an excellent fighter. Not an ATG but an excellent fighter. And because of his name value and longevity and ability to NOT get stopped badly, he still has a chance to be a HOF if he can upset the right guy.
They say the past is an indicator of the future. So I expect Danny to fight Omar Figueroa or Josesito Lopez next. And if he’s successful maybe Manny Pacquiao or Mikey Garcia. You can sort of tell how a fighter is matched in the past as to what is thought of him and what his true market value is.
While I don't think he's a bum by any means and he's certainly a legitimate opponent for Spence, I'm wondering if people are giving Garcia too much credit as a welterweight? His best overall wins have all come at junior welterweight. As to welterweight, his best wins have come against a washed-up Robert Guerrero, a washed-up Paulie Malinaggi, and a catchweight fight at 143 lbs. against Lamont Peterson that many people believe Garcia lost (and he certainly LOOKED like he lost come the end of that fight). His other welterweight victories are against gatekeeper level types. When he has fought next-level welterweights like Thurman and Porter, he lost. The one belt he won at welterweight was a vacant title against Guerrero, and like I said, Guerrero was a shell of his old self at that point.
It's a good fight tomorrow and I plan to pay for it because I want to see what Spence has left following the accident, but until he proves otherwise, I feel like Garcia is not quite fast enough, strong enough, or athletic enough to defeat the elites at welterweight. He can COMPETE, but I have my doubts that he can DEFEAT.
Thoughts?
Bread’s Response: I’m posting this comment because many feel the way you feel about Danny Garcia’s legacy. I thought his resume was SOLID but not spectacular. I didn’t think it was as good as say Miguel Cotto’s. But I did feel as though a win over Spence would put him in the HOF because of Spence’s current status. And despite some close calls I do think consistent winning does count for something.
The thing about a resume is most can be nitpicked. So let’s look at Danny’s. Beating Kendall **** in that title eliminator was solid. **** is a very capable fighter.
Beating Erik Morales for the title at 140 is a nice win. It’s not great because Morales was 35 and an ex 122 pounder. But he was the champion so you have to respect it.
Beating Amir Khan when he did was very, very good. Khan was coming off a controversial loss to Peterson but Danny was the underdog. We can’t change history after the fact. I know Khan is not a great fighter, but he was a great talent and in 2012 most thought Danny wasn’t ready.
The Zab Judah and Erik Morales rematch wins were good matchmaking. If you can match a champion with aging BIG names you still do it.
Lucas Matthysse looks now to be overrated but no one thought that in 2013. Danny faced him and beat him and that’s his career APEX. Danny was 25. Excellent win.
Directly after Danny had sort of a let down fight and struggled vs Mauricio Herrera.
He then takes another showcase vs Rod Salka. He caught flack for that. I understand why to be honest.
Then he fights Lamont Peterson at a catchweight and struggles again. That was tough on his reputation because he was still getting flack for the Herrera fight.
He fights Paulie Malignaggi is showcase fight in Brooklyn, which again is smart because Malignaggi is from Brooklyn and he’s a recognizable name.
He wins his 2nd title vs Robert Guerrero for a vacant strap. Guerrero wasn’t shot, he had a decent performance vs Thurman but he wasn’t prime either. Nice win.
Then Danny takes another tune up vs Samuel Vargas. No big deal.
In his next fight he tries to unify vs Keith Thurman and loses in a solid performance.
He comes back against another recognizable name in Brandon Rios.
Then fights Shawn Porter and loses again in a competitive fight.
He comes back and fights 2 more showcases vs Granados and Redkach before taking on Spence.
Ok so there are levels of separation in his performances. **** was handled better by Tim Bradley than he was by Danny Garcia. But Bradley is HOF. Erik Morales was kod by Manny Pacquiao in 2006 at 130lbs. Danny struggled with him at 140 in 2012. But Pacman is an ATG. Zab Judah was kod in 2 by Kostya Tszyu in 2001. Danny had a tough night with him in 2013. But Tszyu is one of the great juniorwelters ever.
The triangle theory doesn’t work as far as who can beat who. But it does indicate level of dominance when looking at common opponents. I say this to say I don’t get why everyone is so hard on Danny and Angel. He overachieved in MY opinion. He never looked like Carlos Ortiz or Wilfred Benitez . I didn’t think Danny would go 50-0 through 3 divisions. He was a solid fighter. A nice looking kid. A kid with a big punch and good chin, that made a boat load of money and won some nice fights. Why does he get such harsh criticism? I don’t understand it. He did the best he could. And with smart people behind him he OUT KICKED his COVERAGE.
Were there any expectations of Danny being the Greatest fighter of Puerto Rican decent. Was he ever like Fleix Trinidad? I feel as though criticism should be relative to projection or expectations. Unless there was a projection of Danny being an All Time Great then I think it’s ridiculous to hear some of the things I hear about him.
What I observed about Danny and his brain trust is they don’t over match him. When he takes a tough fight, he gets rewarded with a showcase fight. Sometimes two in a row to build momentum. I think fans are hard on Danny because he benefits from matchmaking. But that’s not his fault. It’s his team’s responsibility to do what’s best for him.
Not everyone wants to take on Wilfred Benitez, Roberto Duran 2x, Ayub Kalule and Tommy Hearns in less than 2 years like Ray Leonard. But his talent level is different. Brain trust can’t tell a fighter certain things, but they do smart moves to preserve their status when it’s possible. Danny and his team really spreaded his tough fights out. In 8 years he took 5 fights that he had a 50% chance or more to LOSE. And in those fights vs the better fighters in their primes he’s 2-3. He beat Khan and Matthysse but lost to Porter, Thurman and Spence. But he took the tough fights when he had to. People are hard on Danny but there are way more ENABLED fighters in his PBC stable and of this era. I won’t name anyone because that’s not my style, but there is a welterweight who fought in Danny’s era that got bigger money to fight lesser guys and he lost to way lesser fighters than Danny and still kept getting nice pay days. This is not a Philly thing. I just really think you guys overlook other privileged fighters and fixate on Danny. He signed to face Spence before the accident. He deserves some credit for that.
I think it’s reasonable to say that Danny Garcia is an excellent fighter. Not an ATG but an excellent fighter. And because of his name value and longevity and ability to NOT get stopped badly, he still has a chance to be a HOF if he can upset the right guy.
They say the past is an indicator of the future. So I expect Danny to fight Omar Figueroa or Josesito Lopez next. And if he’s successful maybe Manny Pacquiao or Mikey Garcia. You can sort of tell how a fighter is matched in the past as to what is thought of him and what his true market value is.
Bigblackted4
Superstar
He was picking Danny Garcia lol then switched up at the last minute
andy lee had some scraps man
The axe murderer
For I am death and I ride on a pale horse
That hook of his is lightning
The axe murderer
For I am death and I ride on a pale horse
He said he developed that body punching method in a Mexican gym. One thing I can agree with on Mexican boxers is the body punching there is brutal and consistent even the slick ones
The axe murderer
For I am death and I ride on a pale horse
The axe murderer
For I am death and I ride on a pale horse
how do u find that one out?>
Knockout_LR_Freshmart
All Star
it's a shame how close Calzaghe/Ward/Canelo's careers were but not close enough to meet 
it's a shame how close Calzaghe/Ward/Canelo's careers were but not close enough to meet
when did Calzaghe/Ward were supposed to be meet???
lowkey i did wanted Ward to come out of retirement to face Canelo when Canelo defeated Kovalev
The axe murderer
For I am death and I ride on a pale horse
Super 6 tournament. Joe said nah I'm retiring forget it.