Essential The Official Boxing Random Thoughts Thread...All boxing heads ENTER.
- Thread starter Jesus Is Lord
- Start date
if i was boxer i would be walking out with nothing but HBCU bands
Spence entrance vs Mikey was dope
The axe murderer
For I am death and I ride on a pale horse
Thats the one I was thinking aboutif i was boxer i would be walking out with nothing but HBCU bands
Spence entrance vs Mikey was dope
I'd do the roy jones can't be touched band song
The axe murderer
For I am death and I ride on a pale horse
Wish there were more tapes. Fight 40 times in a year? That is insane
The axe murderer
For I am death and I ride on a pale horse
Tito Ortiz says he's been contacted about Mike Tyson fight, could double Mayweather-McGregor numbers
If he thought chuck hit hard.........
dig your own grave brehs
If he thought chuck hit hard.........
dig your own grave brehs
Always trying to get a MMA cat to fight iron mike lolTito Ortiz says he's been contacted about Mike Tyson fight, could double Mayweather-McGregor numbers
If he thought chuck hit hard.........
dig your own grave brehs
chunky_mcdaniels
All Star
if i was boxer i would be walking out with nothing but HBCU bands
Spence entrance vs Mikey was dope
On point!
They were dope as fukk! How bout when they dropped into 'Ambitionz az a ridah' . shyt was coooooooold.
chunky_mcdaniels
All Star
It's a great fight. Would love to see it. Rigo putting it all on the line. He's certainly at that point of his career. One last big shot.
The Loma fight was expected really, he was clearly mismatched as far as size, even Loma said it post fight.
I like Rigo, the sport needs fighters like him.
Inoue needs opposition like Rigo too, he could be a Duran type legend (minus the no mas) if he continues this way.
interesting comments from doug's mailbag
A question
his answer
A question
his answer
Ward’s skills were elite level, as was his ring savvy and IQ. He was a complete and versatile boxer-technician, every bit deserving of his pound-for-pound status. His accomplishments were top notch. He won the Super Six World Boxing Classic tournament, which unified the WBA and WBC super middleweight titles and earned him The Ring championship as well as The Ring’s 2011 Fighter of the Year award. He won three major light heavyweight titles with his close nod over Sergey Kovalev and earned The Ring championship with his stoppage victory in their rematch. His level of competition was very good for his era (the second half of the 2000s and the last decade). I think Ward is a future first-ballot hall of famer (and, yes, he will get my vote – I might scribble “Dre can do no wrong” next to my checkmark if I’m feeling cheeky).
All Time Great? I’m afraid not, and I don’t write that because I don’t think he could have held his own with the greats of past eras – I think he could – I write that because he just didn’t accomplish enough or face enough fellow elites or future hall of famers to draw comparisons to the true ATGs. Greatness is harder to attain in boxing than in any other pro sport because of who old it is and because the best of the best of previous decades did so much, fought so much, and faced so many fellow greats.
Ward fought 32 times as a pro (and scored 16 KOs). It’s very, very hard to earn ATG status with less than 50 pro bouts. Sugar Ray Leonard (who had 40) did it because he had elite-level dance partners and he fought them when they were at or close to their best in a span (Benitez, Duran twice, Hearns) of less than three years. Those men were awesome at the time and they went on to forge hall of fame or ATG careers after losing to Leonard. Then you add the Hagler upset and the top-10 contenders he faced, and you got a modern fighter with a modern record who ranks with the best that ever did it. That’s RARE, Euan.
Sugar Ray Robinson
I’ll break it down to you like this: Sugar Ray Robinson is the ATG standard. He fought 200 times, scored 108 KOs. He was 40-0 by the end of 1942. The man turned pro in October 1940, so in 27 months, he fought more bouts than Ward did in about 12 years. In that span he beat fellow future hall of famers Jake LaMotta (an ATG), Fritzie Zivic (twice) and Sammy Angott (the lightweight champ at the time, twice). He also beat future welterweight champ Marty Servo (twice) and several top-10 contenders, including Izzy Jannazzo (twice).
If you line up the 10 best fighters Robinson faced, you’re talking about hall of famers (and I’m listing these guys in chronological order, I’m not ranking them): LaMotta (five bouts), Zivic, Angott, Kid Gavilan (twice), Carl “Bobo” Olson (four bouts), Randy Turpin (twice), Rocky Graziano, Joey Maxim, Gene Fullmer (four times) and Carmen Basilio (twice). When historians rank the top middleweights of all time, they include LaMotta. When they rank the top welterweights of all time, the include Gavilan and Basilio. You get my point. (I didn’t bother mentioning Henry Armstrong, who was past his prime when Ray fought him, or Joey Giardello who beat a past-prime Robinson in 1963.) THAT, my friend, is GREATNESS.
The Showtime Super Six tournament established Andre Ward’s pound-for-pound status.
Ward is EXCEPTIONAL for THIS era, but not all time. The quality of his top five opponents is very good: Kovalev (twice), Carl Froch, Chad Dawson, Mikkel Kessler and Arthur Abraham. (If you want to switch the order, that’s all good, I’m listing them, not necessarily ranking them.) Kovalev and Froch will likely make it into the hall of fame. But you can’t really do a top-10 best fighters list with Ward, whose first 18 bouts (as is the tradition for modern amateur standouts) were “gimmes.”
After Sakio Bika and Edison Miranda, who is there? Allan Green? Edison Rodriguez? OK. They were all solid. But who’s No. 10? Rubin “Hollywood” Williams? Henry “Sugar Poo” Buchanan? Maybe it was the Godfather of Gatekeepers, Darnell Boone. (I’m serious!)
Same question for Canelo if he retired tomorrow. Same answer. Canelo’s skillset is elite. Unlike most modern fighters, he’s got a lot of experience (56 pro bouts) to back up his sharp mind and ring generalship. He’s a complete fighter, a boxer-counterpuncher, who is defensively slick but can also be an offensive force with his body attack and combinations. And he’s extremely accomplished, having won The Ring championship at junior middleweight and middleweight, along with eight major titles over three weight classes. Canelo was in The Ring’s 2018 Fight of the Year and he was the consensus 2019 Fighter of the Year.
Canelo-GGG 2 was the 2018 Fight of the Year.
If Alvarez retired tomorrow, he’d be a first-ballot hall of famer. He’s probably got a better case than Ward because he’s already faced four or five men who are in or likely will be inducted into the hall of fame: Floyd Mayweather Jr., Miguel Cotto, Shane Mosley, Gennadiy Golovkin (twice) and Kovalev. He’s got a solid top-10 opponents list, as the second five would be Erislandy Lara, Daniel Jacobs, Austin Trout, Amir Khan and Liam Smith (or maybe Smith can be replaced with Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. or James Kirkland).
But, as it stands now, I don’t view the Mexican superstar as an ATG. Mayweather, Cotto and Mosley were past their primes (and Floyd beat him handily), although he had just reached the world-class level when he faced Mayweather, who ranked up a few significant victories after their 2013 showdown. The Golovkin fights were controversial (and like Ward’s showdowns with Kovalev the first bouts were more disputed than the return bouts), although I thought he was impressive vs. GGG; the split nod over Lara could have gone the other way, Khan was undersized, and Chavez Jr. was clearly drained and merely showed up for the payday. Still, Alvarez is only 30 (which is mind boggling, really). He’s got time to add to his legacy and he very well could end up with an ATG career.
reservoirdogs
Superstar
Tbf the term ATG is the most loosely described accolade in boxing. It’s like the highest praise and means you were a stand out even among HOF-ers but what does it mean exactly changes by person
Dallas' 4 Eva
Superstar
Times change man, you can't knock fighters for fighting less now, a lot of those guys in the past records were filled with 'fluff'. You have to base their ATG status based off who was in front of them at the time, and if they fought/beat who was there or not.
Dallas' 4 Eva
Superstar
IMO a HOF = someone who I think would have success in ANY era.
ATG = Someone who would not only have success,but would be a dominant force in any era.
ATG = Someone who would not only have success,but would be a dominant force in any era.
Knicksman20
Superstar
I can't stand Doug with his Ozone from Breakin' 2 Electric Bugaloo looking ass lol. He's biased as hell & always has been since his Maxboxing mailbag/posting days over there
That said you can't fault SOG for his level of comp when he beat/dominated & unified titles against the tog dogs of his era & weight class. He did what he was supposed to at the elite level he has at
Dallas' 4 Eva
Superstar
It's bias towards the past, because nobody wants to believe the fighters they grew up watching could get beat. For instance I saw this in a boxing group I follow.
Guess who everyone said would win? I aint even a Joshua fan and I'll tell you right now only way Foreman beats him is by KO, he won't outbox Joshua in any way shape or form, but that bias towards the past man it's something I tell you.