It's heavily implied. Part of it is due to the same exact reasons as Bruce, the other is due to him being power hungry and telling Superman that he wants to be in contorl over what he perceives as a God. Which is true to the comic book.
The Official Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice Movie Thread
- Thread starter Jello Biafra
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It's heavily implied. Part of it is due to the same exact reasons as Bruce, the other is due to him being power hungry and telling Superman that he wants to be in contorl over what he perceives as a God. Which is true to the comic book.
detroitwalt
Superstar
So him and Bruce basically had the same motivation for wanting to get rid of Superman?
So with Lex sending the letters to both Bruce & Clark, how could he be counting on Batman to kill Superman? He was doing it before the kryptonite was discovered so what made him think Batman stood a chance?
The Fukin Prophecy
RIP Champ
30% and still dropping...
We about to hit 20% rotten range...
We about to hit 20% rotten range...
BobbyBooshay
Arnold Jackson
Hmm will watch again but pretty sure he was not as clear as this.
Don't remmeber him saying we have to stop him as he destroyed the city etc.
Was never as clear as Wayne reasons
seriously, it's shyt like that, that further shows these cats don't really watch the movies....they listen to critics or whomever narrative they wanna run with, and just regurgitate that shyt.... cause not only was it clear why he hated sup, he even says so in the movie, smh...
Disgustya Stallone
Man Who Owns 2 Microwaves
Mr Hate Coffee
Veteran
OK, let me start off by saying that the reason this movie was so disappointing, at least for me, was that I saw flashes, no entire sequences of awesomeness. It was as if someone had smuggled in footage from the editor's vault without his permission to tease the audience with clips from an unfinished movie. There were missing transitions and scenes but you could tell that the movie Snyder was working on was gonna be really good once it was complete.
The problem is, this was the finished product.
So I'm gonna talk about what I liked and loved first because I think that's why I was so frustrated and disappointed with this movie.
The Great, the Good, and the OK
I don't really like Jesse Einsenberg. He is usually annoying and swarmy in most of his roles, but contrary to the critics and most of the folks on this board, I really enjoyed Eisenberg's villain. I say villain because he really wasn't playing the Lex Luthor at all. Once you make peace with that, you can see that whoever Einseberg was playing was fukking twisted and diabolical and brilliant. I love that he killed so many people and was willing to kill so many more, to accomplish his mission. I loved his plans. He was playing the long game and he did it well. The whole I kidnapped-your-mother-now-go-kill-Batman revelation scene played out so well (although I have other problems with the plausibility of Superman bending to Luthor's will here. I'll talk about that later). I also enjoyed the scene between him and the Senator, where she turns him down and suddenly it gets awesomely tense and creepy between them. And one of my favorite scenes was the congressional hearing where pieces from the Senator and Luthor's conversation come back to haunt her and everyone else in the building. That entire scene was fantastic. I've never been so excited about innocent people being blown up before. So yeah, go Luthor.
I really enjoyed Wonder Woman. Gadot played her very well. Elegant, beautiful, strong, and badass. I love how epic her fight scenes were, and I want more now. I can't wait to see what they do with her in a feature film.
I actually didn't mind the trigger happy Batman. He was kinda fun, especially the desert scene. That was pretty kickass. In fact, I'm not sure what the complaint is because it seemed that all of his kills were done in dream sequences. Can someone point out when he was shooting people and it wasn't in his head?
I loved Jeremy Irons' Alfred, and I think they could have used him more.
Angsty Superman works for me. Especially in this universe. I thought Cavill did a good job of playing someone who wanted to do good but felt torn about how he was making others feel.
On the flip side, some of the humor, which was sparse, was surprisingly funny. I really enjoyed Luthor popping the candy in the guy's mouth and Superman's mom saying 'yeah, I know, the cape gave it away'.
Affleck's Batman was OK. I don't see what the hype is. He wasn't terrible, but he was no Keaton or Bale. But I honestly am not sure I would want to see a feature film with him as Batman. He kinda bored me.
Aaaaand now I'm running out of good things to say, so onto the bad...
The Bad, the Terrible, and the OMFG Why???
I hated Lois here. I hate the way Amy Adams plays Lois, I hate the forced affection, the non-existent chemistry, the awkward imitations of intimacy, and the shallow declarations of love between Clark and Lois. Most of her scenes didn't make sense to me, and it felt like they were really just trying to find places to fit her in. It wasn't organic and her and Clark never felt real.
And speaking of realism, I never bought that Superman and Batman could be on even footing, even with the use of kryptonite. I just never bought that Superman would let Batman close enough to even use the kryptonite. After the initial surprise kryptonite shot, Superman should have never let Batman close enough to do that again. He didn't have to kill him, but Superman has so many powers he could have used defensively to put himself at arm's length while trying to talk to Batman. Maybe I should have suspended my disbelief because there was some cool action in there, but I just couldn't.
I also could not fukking believe that Superman would let his mom be kidnapped and bow to the will of Luthor. It was a brilliant plan, and I loved the way that scene unfolded, however I never, never bought it. You're telling me he could hear Lois thumping miles away underwater, but he couldn't hear or locate his mother? He sure as hell located her in MoS when she was about to be killed. Consistency within a universe is so important if you're asking an audience to believe in any of this stuff.
And while I really liked Luthor here, I never really understood his problem with Superman. He rambles something about his father beating him and God and power, but his fixation of taking Superman down just seemed really random. They could have spent some time on giving him more backstory to flesh out his motivations, because I didn't buy them here.
While we're on Luthor, I didn't really understand how anyone had discovered the green mineral known as kryptonite and associate it with Kryptonians. Like why would they see a green mineral and say "ooo, I wonder if that would degrade the cells of Kryptonians". Like why would anyone look at kryptonite and think that. They didn't do a good job of selling the human discovery and use of it on Kryptonians.
The flow...the fukking flow is non existent. Scenes just appear and then disappear. There are no real transitions, no thoughtful tie-ins to make things coherent. It really feels like little teaser trailers strung together. I can tell this is footage from a much longer movie and whoever is in charge of editing may be at more fault than Snyder.
But, but Snyder still needs to be crucified for the hackneyed way Batman's origins and current story line played out. They should have just saved that for the feature movie, it was beautifully shot but it felt so incomplete and scattered. It was frustrating because you could tell there was so much more story there and they didn't really give that character room to breath and develop. They couldn't because they were trying to cram too much other stuff in.
Snyder should also be blamed for the shoddy execution of Doomsday. Luthor's acquisition of the information to create Doomsday didn't feel really credible. I didn't buy it. I also didn't like Doomsday. He never felt really real or threatening because he seemed so unreal. Too much of him was special effects and he had too much power for it not to do even more damage than the ending MoS fight. And by the way, wasn't that the whole point behind why Batman was mad at Superman, so why didn't he give any pause or sentiment about the amount of destruction he was participating in, even if it was to stop Doomsday. Doomsday ended up feeling like a plot device to unite the heroes.
And speaking of plot devices, here's where Goyer really shows he sucks at writing dialogue. That entire graveside scene between Batman and WW felt so ridiculously forced. Yes, we know you are using this movie to set up the Justice League, but no, Batman is not clairvoyant and how could he possibly know or want to assemble all of the freaks in Luthor's secret files. Why would he even think they would want to be heroes and not villians? Why isn't he probing WW more or in shock that she's so old. It's like he found out she's almost 100 years old and is like 'cool'. None of that dialogue or interaction felt real or believable. This was a writing issue.
In terms of writing, overall, this was a tedious film to watch because it was like rummaging through a flea market, trying to slug through the garbage because you know there is something good in buried in there. The pacing felt off because there was no flow. And the flow was off because there were no transitions. There were no transitions because character development and the overall story was neglected. And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how many cool scenes you give me, if you can't string them together in a cohesive and plausible way, you've failed to make a good movie.
I had to rep you breh. Especially for the 2nd part. I had the same gripes in my review. None of the motivations made sense. Luthor was mad af for no reason. Superman's powers were never consistent and The World's Greatest Detective was reduced to an angry pawn.
I also agree about the destruction. Nothing was resolved from the beginning of the movie, "Oh man gawd Supermane is so dangerous" to the end. Yeah they were fighting in abandoned areas but is the public supposed to feel any safer? Sooo much destruction happened
BobbyBooshay
Arnold Jackson
30% and still dropping...
We about to hit 20% rotten range...
Fan4 > BvS
Your mom's name is Martha too? Damn negro, that's all you had to say.
Let's get a cold one.
another example that shows some of yall faking the funk when it comes to this comic shyt....that's always been known in the comic world...that's one way they always connected the 2...
Disgustya Stallone
Man Who Owns 2 Microwaves
how do you argue with this level of retarded-ness?
it's like trying to explain to a 3 year old why it's bad to pick your boogers and eat them
BobbyBooshay
Arnold Jackson
dakidbanks
Superstar
Lex sent the letters to Bruce to further manipulate the Superman hatred because Bruce's main goal aside from stopping those terrorizing Gotham is trying to save the people he loves.. he felt he failed considering what happened to his building during the Zod fight and the aftermath so mentally Lex twisted the knife a little deeper...
Lex also didn't trust Supes but he has more of a powertrip thing going on as to why he wanted ppl to look at Supes differently... basically the same motivations as all the other incarnations of Lex
I forgot if the kryptonite was discovered before or after the party scene to comment on when Lex started manipulating Bruce
You know what? I think it was after because that was Bruce's goal of going right? That would explain why he counted on Bats to kill him but correct me if I'm wrong
Also Lex wanted Supes to kill Bats, not the other way around although he didn't care if it happened... his motivation for that was to further tarnish public perception
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Jeremy Irons' Alfred >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Any way here are my thoughts.
Any way here are my thoughts.
The flash cameo was awesome, I think Ezra is gonna be great at it.
I think the big ass OMEGA in Batman's vision is totally a foreshadow to not just Darkseid but also the Anti-Life Equation and him using it on Lois or Supes.
Barry tells Bruce its "always been about Lois". I think that's where we see how Darkseid gets an in.
Ben was actually halfway good as Bruce and Batman. He played an OK Bruce (Bale is still the best Bruce Wayne) but a really good older Batman. Lumbering physicality...very good. The whole film suffers from stiff ass writing though.
I still hate Superman...so much. But even more so now I feel like film and CG technology has finally caught up to where we can see him and he feels and seems TRULY powerful.
The sound editing is literally the BEST thing about this film. It really not all that good.
I think the big ass OMEGA in Batman's vision is totally a foreshadow to not just Darkseid but also the Anti-Life Equation and him using it on Lois or Supes.
Barry tells Bruce its "always been about Lois". I think that's where we see how Darkseid gets an in.
Ben was actually halfway good as Bruce and Batman. He played an OK Bruce (Bale is still the best Bruce Wayne) but a really good older Batman. Lumbering physicality...very good. The whole film suffers from stiff ass writing though.
I still hate Superman...so much. But even more so now I feel like film and CG technology has finally caught up to where we can see him and he feels and seems TRULY powerful.
The sound editing is literally the BEST thing about this film. It really not all that good.
what?!?!? this is not true....marvel has not made their characters act like they are in the comics...so far, they've made the majority of their leads wise cracking white males....which is not how they are in the comics...