The Martial Arts and Philosophy

[Julius Skrrvin]

Ima talk about the philosophy of my system. I'm studying Sun-style Xingyiquan, which is heavily based off Daoist principles (as are the other two main internal/neijia styles = Taijiquan or Tai Chi Chuan and Baguazhang). Xingyiquan means "Form-Mind" boxing. The martial art is separated into an external and internal component. The Form or Xing, is the external movement and shape of your attacks, physical strength. The internal component involves the training and focus of the spirit, intention, coordination/neural aspects, and the creation of intenal strength through neigong.

Before training, there is no thought, no intention. Only Qi exists in the chaos of the body. This state of emptiness is Wu Ji. Before boxing, one must be empty. Nothing is in the heart (emotion), no motives in the eyes or power in the eyes. No intention. Here the Qi then moves from emptiness to Tai Ji, or the state of changing Qi. the body begins to move, and the mind begins to contemplate the union of heart, force, and qi. From there we move to Liang Yi, the act of moving and stretching and contracting. Here our external fighting stance takes place and we begin to manifest the Six Harmonies of the body that ensure the generation of coordinated strength and stability. At this point, we have reached the trinity, or San Ti Shi. Here is a picture of my style's founder in the stance:

this stance represents the marriage of heaven, earth and the human being. standing practice in this builds a powerful root, and prepares the body to create energy, turning the human essence (jing) into Qi. The stance should be relaxed, yet strong and stable. The intention should be expanding, listening internally to the body, focused on the dan tian or navel area.

The six harmonies (Liu He) are essential:

1)The hands harmonize with the feet,
2)The shoulders harmonize with the hips,
3)The elbows harmonize with the knees,
4)The heart harmonizes with the intent,
5)The intent harmonizes with the qi,
6)The qi harmonizes with the power.

Thats the most basic foundation of xingyi practice from an internal and external standpoint, and includes the philosophical basis of the form and principles. There is much more, but that is the basic.

 

[dynamik]

"Appear outwardly weak, but be inwardly strong" a lot of martial artist forget the meaning of the word "martial" and are quick to boastfully show their skill. And they have lost sight of the essence of their training. Martial arts training must be taken deadly serious, considering what the intent should be when a strike is thrown in real life. The intent should be to end ones life with every blow. That's the intent at least. I find way too many "practitioners " lacking an understanding of the gravity of their responsibilities to themselves, their art, and society.

The Book of Five Rings is a facinating read btw

 

[Mowgli]

Martial arts parallels life. In life, to gain understanding, many times you have to lose, to win. - Mowgli

 

[Brian O'Conner]

I dont put too much thought into systems. Even though my base is shotokan I have dabbled in at least 6-7 different styles over the past 10 years.

I just look at it as self defense. 99% of the time fights are about defending your ego, learn to walk away. The only time physical violence should be used if your life is in danger and you cant escape or you have to defend someone who cant defend themselves.

A lot of people get caught up with different 'styles" and what is the best. But imo it really is about the individual person more than what style he uses. For me Martial Arts has given me responsibility and dicipline which can be applied to anything really.

 

[Amare's Right Hook]

I agree. Powerful thread

 

[thekingsmen]

I think alot of the martial arts with honor, disciple and respect has been pushed to the back b/c of the expansion of massive amounts of MMA schools. Now there are MMA that follow that code of the elders and philosophy but others create an outlet for troublemakers and bullies to run the streets. Alot of young teens and 20 plus are quick to jump in a ring to fight with someone after getting training but the best philosophy is the "Art of fighting without fighting".

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

I dont put too much thought into systems. Even though my base is shotokan I have dabbled in at least 6-7 different styles over the past 10 years.

A lot of people get caught up with different 'styles" and what is the best. But imo it really is about the individual person more than what style he uses. For me Martial Arts has given me responsibility and dicipline which can be applied to anything really.

I have been dabbling for my whole life, but this time i found something that I really like and I want to stick with it. Cross training is important, essential really but if you wanna make real progress i believe that you have to invest years of time in something specific and practice it till its automatic, instinctive. Sometimes if you learn too much at one time, you dont absorb the essence of a thing, and your results are middling.

I think alot of the martial arts with honor, disciple and respect has been pushed to the back b/c of the expansion of massive amounts of MMA schools. Now there are MMA that follow that code of the elders and philosophy but others create an outlet for troublemakers and bullies to run the streets. Alot of young teens and 20 plus are quick to jump in a ring to fight with someone after getting training but the best philosophy is the "Art of fighting without fighting".

I am a big exponent of martial virtues, but I dont blame MMA for the explosion in punkass kids. I blame the culture, there is no respect for elders in american society, nor any for teachers. I think MMA has been very constructive and helpful for TMA, bringing back a focus on fighting applicability and conditioning.

 

[Mowgli]

Train to beat fighters not people who cant fight.

 

[thekingsmen]

I am a big exponent of martial virtues, but I dont blame MMA for the explosion in punkass kids. I blame the culture, there is no respect for elders in american society, nor any for teachers. I think MMA has been very constructive and helpful for TMA, bringing back a focus on fighting applicability and conditioning.

You obviously misinterpreted what I said. I never said MMA is the fault of punk kids. Yes culture is the main component but MMA has become part of that culture. Violence placed on a wide range of media shows kids with undeveloped minds how to be self-destructive. Some MMA schools are legit with the code and M.A. philosophy. Others don't carry the same. Which why it isn't addressed that many people look for trouble by creating outlets for bullies and punk kids to wreck havoc.

I have 15 MMA schools in a 5 mile radius in my area alone. I can bet more than half of them are all about fighting and not about the M.A. culture. I don't know how many time I heard of the MMA schools teachers claim to be a student of Gracie Family or were taught by someone who claimed they were taught by the Gracie Family.

Just like the huge expansion of M.A. schools of the 80's and 90's alot of scam artists and third-rate purple belts of the style claimed to be masters when they weren't. People always have to be careful of the trends.

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

You obviously misinterpreted what I said. I never said MMA is the fault of punk kids. Yes culture is the main component but MMA has become part of that culture. Violence placed on a wide range of media shows kids with undeveloped minds how to be self-destructive. Some MMA schools are legit with the code and M.A. philosophy. Others don't carry the same. Which why it isn't addressed that many people look for trouble by creating outlets for bullies and punk kids to wreck havoc.

I have 15 MMA schools in a 5 mile radius in my area alone. I can bet more than half of them are all about fighting and not about the M.A. culture. I don't know how many time I heard of the MMA schools teachers claim to be a student of Gracie Family or were taught by someone who claimed they were taught by the Gracie Family..

What is the "code"? What is "martial arts philosophy"? WHat is the "martial arts culture"? This whole topic is meant to address the diversity of thought, values, and abstraction in the martial arts. Should MMA have a code? MMA is a hybrid of sports and martial arts. Does boxing have a code? What about K-1? Are there philosophy in any of these?

MMA isnt about that, and quite frankly i dont think it needs to be. It serves its purpose as a direct, simple method to train people to fight standing or on the ground. MMA is open, its meant in its most simple terms to be a sport in which martial arts syncretism in technique is encouraged, and thats all.

I dont think its a negative either, just different. I dont hold MMA schools accountable for not trying to force values or philosophy on their students. I do think they need to at the very least let people be aware of the legal ramifications of what theyre learning, but i dont think they need to do anything else beyond that. With power comes responsiblity... And if you learn something, at the end of the day its up to your ass how you use it.

 

[thekingsmen]

What is the "code"? What is "martial arts philosophy"? WHat is the "martial arts culture"? This whole topic is meant to address the diversity of thought, values, and abstraction in the martial arts. Should MMA have a code? MMA is a hybrid of sports and martial arts. Does boxing have a code? What about K-1? Are there philosophy in any of these?

MMA isnt about that, and quite frankly i dont think it needs to be. It serves its purpose as a direct, simple method to train people to fight standing or on the ground. MMA is open, its meant in its most simple terms to be a sport in which martial arts syncretism in technique is encouraged, and thats all.

I dont think its a negative either, just different. I dont hold MMA schools accountable for not trying to force values or philosophy on their students. I do think they need to at the very least let people be aware of the legal ramifications of what theyre learning, but i dont think they need to do anything else beyond that. With power comes responsiblity... And if you learn something, at the end of the day its up to your ass how you use it.

Mixed Martial Arts was created by Bruce Lee when he fathered Jeet Kun Do. The sport of Martial Arts such as Judo, Kickboxing, Muay Tai and Karate was about competition with codes. It wasn't about trash-talking and self gloating and disrespect of the opponent.

I'm not disagreeing with you about your view on MMA. I agree with "With Power comes responsibility" but without disciple, honor and respect of M.A. Power is just that....a word.

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

Mixed Martial Arts is a concept that has been around as long as there have been free fighting contests. Pankration, certain types of wrestling, early boxing contests, Chinese Martial Art contests...

Bruce Lee didnt create shyt but another syncretic style that became popular... because he was popular.

Power is not just a word, IMO. That seems like the kind of thing you can say just to downplay someone's skills and accomplishments in the martial arts just because you dont agree with their character or some aspect of how they conduct themselves. Trash talking in the martial arts is not new, or exclusive to MMAists. Some of the most talented martial artists and martial sport competitors in human history have talked shyt or picked fights. Thats just part of the game. Plenty of traditional martial arts incorporate these things as a form of psychological intimidation, and its valid.

 

[thekingsmen]

Power is not just a word, IMO. That seems like the kind of thing you can say just to downplay someone's skills and accomplishments in the martial arts just because you dont agree with their character or some aspect of how they conduct themselves. Trash talking in the martial arts is not new, or exclusive to MMAists. Some of the most talented martial artists and martial sport competitors in human history have talked shyt or picked fights. Thats just part of the game. Plenty of traditional martial arts incorporate these things as a form of psychological intimidation, and its valid.

Again you are taking words out of context. Snipping and taking pieces out what you assumed I said. I never said "Power" was just a word. I said to addressing your "Power" comment is "without disciple, honor and respect of M.A." Power is just a word. Which translates... it's nice to have all that fists and kicks but real power comes with that plus D/H/R.

Can you bring some trash talk and picked fights by the Most Talented M.A. of human history...
The only person with the biggest trash talk in Martial Arts history was Carter Wong who had beef with Bruce.

 

[Mowgli]

Mixed Martial Arts is a concept that has been around as long as there have been free fighting contests. Pankration, certain types of wrestling, early boxing contests, Chinese Martial Art contests...

Bruce Lee didnt create shyt but another syncretic style that became popular... because he was popular.

Power is not just a word, IMO. That seems like the kind of thing you can say just to downplay someone's skills and accomplishments in the martial arts just because you dont agree with their character or some aspect of how they conduct themselves. Trash talking in the martial arts is not new, or exclusive to MMAists. Some of the most talented martial artists and martial sport competitors in human history have talked shyt or picked fights. Thats just part of the game. Plenty of traditional martial arts incorporate these things as a form of psychological intimidation, and its valid.

The longer you're in a martial arts environment the more you see a lot of the characters in the old school kung fu flicks. From the righteous, to the goofballs to the demons. Having a philosophy in a martial art does not stop people from being human beings.

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

Can you bring some trash talk and picked fights by the Most Talented M.A. of human history...
The only person with the biggest trash talk in Martial Arts history was Carter Wong who had beef with Bruce.

....Jack Johnson's whole career.

Muhammad Ali.

Miyamoto Musashi and the Yoshioka, he provoked the shyt out of their entire school.

Harry Greb and all of his big opponents

Li Shu Wen and almost all of his opponents.

Jim Corbett and John L Sullivan.

Sun Cunzhou and everyone until he lost an eye.

Guo Yunshen picking a fight with Cheng Tinghua.

Liu Yun Qiao and Ding Zicheng

I could name more. I dont understand what you're trying to say here. Here's a cold hard fact: experienced, confident martial artists who make a name and a dollar off fighting will trash talk to goad others into fights, even if the other is respectful. This is not a new phenomenon, and is to be downright expected in a competitive environment of any kind.

Also, you said without martial virtues power is just a word. I disagreed with that notion.

The longer you're in a martial arts environment the more you see a lot of the characters in the old school kung fu flicks. From the righteous, to the goofballs to the demons. Having a philosophy in a martial art does not stop people from being human beings.

Exactly, and you see that even in the most skilled fighters. At least in their youth/prime, its very common.