The Last of Us Part II Spoiler Discussion Thread

[The axe murderer]

Tommy ain't no joke Him and Joel in their prime must have been Negan levels of savagery.

Yo if they make a prequel
They gonna be shaking down mfs for that toilet paper and can of beans

 

[HiiiPower]

Let me preface this by saying i haven't played the game but "watched" it so take what i say with a giant grain of salt.

I think the two main points that don't make sense are Joel being careless and dying as a result. Him dying is cool but they basically caught him slipping which is not consistent with the character.

The second part is the ending of course where she went through all of the journey killing many on her watly and in a flash decides not to kill abby. I understand she was broken and fukked up by the end but thos is over the top. I don't see a person or character not going through with it. She should have given up along the way. This part should have been a choice. Or they should have found a better reason for ellie not to kill abby.

as I said in my thoughts i pretty much agree with you on Ellie’s decision, like I get all of the points/parallels, it’s not done for the fukk of it, it goes with ending the cycle of violence plus Joel’s last words, I just think it would make MORE sense if she killed her.

As for Joel, I see a lot of people critique this, I don’t think it was overly stupid, they just rescued her and are obviously used to people passing through Jackson by Tommy saying they can restock them before they head back out, not to mention Joel has been living comfy(ish) for 4 years so he is probably a lot less hostile/paranoid.

If this was Joel in the same mindset as the first game I’d completely agree tho

 

[The axe murderer]

I got Kevin nash

 

[HiiiPower]

Tommy ain't no joke Him and Joel in their prime must have been Negan levels of savagery.

I always said way before we knew they were making a sequel that this would of been a great idea for DLC for the first game after Left Behind, Nothing too crazy in terms of length, maybe 6 hours worth split into a few segments over the 10 years after the outbreak...Joel/Tommy during the initial stages, Joel/Tommy traveling as raiders, Tommy leaving for the fireflies

 

[HiiiPower]

I got Kevin nash

Yeah big bass got that

 

[The axe murderer]

Yeah big bass got that

I got him by Jack knife power bomb

 

[Turbulent]

I see where people are coming from with Joel getting caught slipping, but old Joel likely doesn't save Abby in the first place. I took it as him getting content/sloppy over the years at Jackson. You see how soft Tommy was toward them originally, but he immediately snapped back into demonic mode after Ellie told him she was dipping with or without him.

The second part, I feel the same way, especially considering all the loss she had to endure, and even lost her family as a result of going to SB (she didn't know until she got back, but I knew that would happen as a player assuming Ellie lived through it). And all the pain she endured in SB itself I was taking pleasure in fukking her up at the end. I also could understand having to face that decision to continue that cycle of violence or not really facing her until she has to finish the job. I think they laid out good enough reasoning for me to understand it, even if I didn't agree with it, but to each their own.

Also, I watch playthroughs of games I beat to pass the time sometimes, but that shyt really ain't the same feeling as playing, but you already saw the story now so I imagine it won't make much of a difference for you

i think it would have been dope if they had showed Joel being tired of running and being paranoid. Tired of just "surviving" and just wanting to live semi-normal. So when he would have given jis name it would have been him just surrendering unconsciously to life and accepting whatever hatever comes when that. But it would have required more time to establish.

The end, same thing. Better established, it could have been deep.

I agree that playing it is probably a different feeling. Can't really speak on it.

 

[kdslittlebro]

i think it would have been dope if they had showed Joel being tired of running and being paranoid. Tired of just "surviving" and just wanting to live semi-normal. So when he would have given jis name it would have been him just surrendering unconsciously to life and accepting whatever hatever comes when that. But it would have required more time to establish.

The end, same thing. Better established, it could have been deep.

I agree that playing it is probably a different feeling. Can't really speak on it.

And your points are showing nuance I'm not seeing in a lot of discussion. People reacting on emotion for Joel, Ellie, etc acting like super fanboys that got their toys taken away. I saw a comment on caccit that "ND didn't take our feelings into account the way they unceremoniously killed Joel". One: they addressed that through Joel himself: "just give me whatever speech you rehearsed and get on with it". Two: Ellie threw everything away just to get to Abby (even though she couldn't do it in the end, she threw away EVERYTHING).

I think ND did a good job of telling a story and not steering the player to do anything but understand the characters' POVs. I've never seen a perfect story. There's definitely ways it could have been better and I'm with you and @HiiiPower on that point. I just can't say it wasn't quality writing on my side.

I remember seeing a suggestion that they never marketed Joel and Ellie from the start, and started the game cold open with Abby's part, all the way up until she kills Joel. That would have been the craziest shyt in gaming, and I'm pretty sure I would have enjoyed that even more by the end.

 

[Turbulent]

And your points are showing nuance I'm not seeing in a lot of discussion. People reacting on emotion for Joel, Ellie, etc acting like super fanboys that got their toys taken away. I saw a comment on caccit that "ND didn't take our feelings into account the way they unceremoniously killed Joel". One: they addressed that through Joel himself: "just give me whatever speech you rehearsed and get on with it". Two: Ellie threw everything away just to get to Abby (even though she couldn't do it in the end, she threw away EVERYTHING).

I think ND did a good job of telling a story and not steering the player to do anything but understand the characters' POVs. I've never seen a perfect story. There's definitely ways it could have been better and I'm with you and @HiiiPower on that point. I just can't say it wasn't quality writing on my side.

I remember seeing a suggestion that they never marketed Joel and Ellie from the start, and started the game cold open with Abby's part, all the way up until she kills Joel. That would have been the craziest shyt in gaming, and I'm pretty sure I would have enjoyed that even more by the end.

that beginning would have been intense and interesting.
Nuance doesn't exist anymore. On neither side. I yhink it was an ambitious attempt executed very poorly. My standard on if something is a good or bad story is if I (as a non-professional writer) could have came up with a better story. And sincerely feel with no arrogance that even with what they were trying to do, an amateur could have came up with something better. I still respect the attempt.

I do feel like the other side (not you) ran with the "if you don't like this game you are sexist/homophobe, transphobe" and that's pretty lame too.

Glad to hear other perspectives. Might not agree with everything but it's still interesting.

 

[kdslittlebro]

Man Dina was such a rider I even saw the Abby/Ellie fight scene in the leaks and I still felt the

when that knife was at her throat

 

[kdslittlebro]

I do feel like the other side (not you) ran with the "if you don't like this game you are sexist/homophobe, transphobe" and that's pretty lame too.

I didn't even feel like that part was shoehorned in the game for it to be a criticism or praise unless you went out of your way to think about it. Sure you didn't have a choice but to see it between Ellie/Dina and with Lev, but I never found myself lingering on any of it.

 

[Turbulent]

as I said in my thoughts i pretty much agree with you on Ellie’s decision, like I get all of the points/parallels, it’s not done for the fukk of it, it goes with ending the cycle of violence plus Joel’s last words, I just think it would make MORE sense if she killed her.

As for Joel, I see a lot of people critique this, I don’t think it was overly stupid, they just rescued her and are obviously used to people passing through Jackson by Tommy saying they can restock them before they head back out, not to mention Joel has been living comfy(ish) for 4 years so he is probably a lot less hostile/paranoid.

If this was Joel in the same mindset as the first game I’d completely agree tho

I see your point for joel but they should have fleshed out his transition as far as mentality a little more (which i guess they did with the flashbacks). And i guess you would also run the risk of over explaining the element. It just felt clumsy and flimsy. Same story with same main points could still have hit better if it would have been constructed differently. I guess it's not even the story, it's the construction and delivery especially in game format which for better or worse should not be treated exactly like film.

 

[Black Magisterialness]

The only ones I see people mention is "Teleportation" from Wyoming to Seattle and why didn't Tommy leave the doors open for Ellie & Dina

Point #1
Then nikkas woulda complained about having to play through 2 months of a lesbian romance while trekking through the boonies, when all of that character development was already established in like the first hour of the game.

Point #2
Sure, let me leave doors open in a city filled with millions of doors, hundreds of miles away, so my adopted niece who I deliberately left before so she wouldn't come, could have an easier time.

fukking foolishness.

Meanwhile, son totally misses the part where she clearly has a flash back to Joel and realized he's dead because of his violent actions. Ellie was fukking over it at that point. Its one thing to not like a story choice, its another to miss the point of what was being said entirely.

 

[Black Magisterialness]

And also the fact is video games have so long ingrained to people that you are suppose to win. Doesn’t matter the genre. So the fact that this game’s ending leaves you exhausted, empty, and slightly confused instead of the typical gratification is causing fury. Good for ND to challenge people’s norms of how storytelling should go.

Why people like Spec-Ops:The Line, and why Red Dead is so beloved. The good guys don't always win. In fact, you SHOULD be asking yourself "am I even the good guy?"

 

[kdslittlebro]

Point #1
Then nikkas woulda complained about having to play through 2 months of a lesbian romance while trekking through the boonies, when all of that character development was already established in like the first hour of the game.

Point #2
Sure, let me leave doors open in a city filled with millions of doors, hundreds of miles away, so my adopted niece who I deliberately left before so she wouldn't come, could have an easier time.

fukking foolishness.



Meanwhile, son totally misses the part where she clearly has a flash back to Joel and realized he's dead because of his violent actions. Ellie was fukking over it at that point. Its one thing to not like a story choice, its another to miss the point of what was being said entirely.

Why people like Spec-Ops:The Line, and why Red Dead is so beloved. The good guys don't always win. In fact, you SHOULD be asking yourself "am I even the good guy?"

A lot (not all) of people are truly lost because ND didn't spoon feed them everything, even though most everything is spelled out. I honestly think some people rushed through the game too fast just to have a take on it, and didn't process everything. So many points are being thrown out that are being directly refuted by the game itself.

I fw hard8, but I watched his review, and he was saying he hated the 10 hr Yara and Lev "side mission", because he just wanted to get back to the theater, while discussing so many character traits for Abby he wouldn't have gotten without that section.

I hated that Troy Baker put out his statement, because it almost said Joel was dying from jump, but I really feel like it applies. I was put off by the leaks, but in the context of the story it made sense. But I feel like too many people were stuck on Joel from the beginning of the game, and it tainted their views on the rest of the game. Ironically they were Ellie through most of the game themselves At this point if somebody still tries to call Joel the hero, I gotta take em with a grain of salt and I'm still pissed off about that scene, because that's my guy, but actions have consequences