On another note, Marlene is the only good looking chick in this game
I preferred her part 1 design though.
The Last of Us Part II Spoiler Discussion Thread
- Thread starter HiiiPower
- Start date
I preferred her part 1 design though.
I mean this with all due respect, and I usually hate saying this because it sounds pretentious as fukk imo, and maybe you’d still feel the same if you had played it, but you really do need to play this to see a lot of what people are praising, Like what you said about them fleshing out his mentality and that they maybe they do this through flashbacks?...they do, and 90% of what you see of Joel in this is through flashbacks, so not seeing any of these/this you’re missing a lot of what people are saying
obviously you’re just basing this off what you have seen, and you can’t do any more than that, but people that have played through for the most part are going to have a completely different viewpoint then the people who haven’t, when with a lot of games this isn’t usually the wa
im also glad that Ellie didnt kill Abby , i feel like that would have been so predictable
and would have justify Ellie putting her friends at risk and losing Dina.
A faity tale ending would have been Ellie killing Abby , then going back to the farm where Dina still waiting for her ,
Jessie popping out of nowhere on some "im still alive ,guys!" and the baby's first word being "joel". That would have been lame af.
and would have justify Ellie putting her friends at risk and losing Dina.
A faity tale ending would have been Ellie killing Abby , then going back to the farm where Dina still waiting for her ,
Jessie popping out of nowhere on some "im still alive ,guys!" and the baby's first word being "joel". That would have been lame af.
MisterMajesty
All Star
I got clocked with work. @Uchiha God, since I can't find ya post. Because this is so damn long. Imma spoiler it for you guys.
For me, these aren't really plotholes per say, these are just instances of either rushed, or just really contrived situations. They're everywhere in the story and it's just very bothersome when you realize that the game was rushed and has pacing issues at the end of it. So, i'll try to start from the very start.
Jesse
Jesse just feels like a composite character in a sense. His only role in the story (imo) was to be there to impregnate Dina, so that a level of drama/tension could be present in the story for later on. This actually came up during the stream, cus someone cracked a "JESSE THE CUCK!" joke, and due to the game just dragging in the beginning, we had time to think bout it. The dialogue between the three just felt...off after realising that. No way is anyone gonna be remotely cool with a friend banging your ex of one week. Why this doesn't come up more often in the story is beyond me, especially as he dies. His character in the end just feels like a plot device to forward certain parts of the story, and then to give a parallel at the end (which i will get to)
Joel, or his death rather.
For the record, i have no problem with Joel dying. BUT, there is a lot to get into with my feelings on this one, and much of it stems from me also writing myself. The first part is Abby herself, being saved. Joel from what the viewer is shown is as paranoid as batman, so having him just show up to save a stranger he doesn't know, when in the first game he was ready to kill someone who even knew his name is just...strange. Strike 1 in my eyes. Jesse and Tommy just giving their details is beyond dodgy, them inviting them back to their settlement, whilst their wearing WLF jackets, is another "what the fukk" moment (isn't Tommy an ex WLF?). This very same point comes up again, because when Tommy wants to send some people to get Abby and her crew, he's refused as the settlement is constantly being attacked.
Why is, in a time of war effectively, two wanted men inviting strangers back to a home base? that isn't a blatant plothole, but it is very convenient and at best, very out of character for those two.
Secondly, Abby is a character we are supposed to sympathise with. However, the first time we see her, someone else has to save her life, and then she kills that man brutally in response, an then not only that, SHE LEAVES ellie and Tommy alive, the only people logically that would recognise them, it's even pointed out that they are going to come after them immediately. There is no reason to leave Ellie and Tommy alive other than for plot convenience. This in my opinion is a gigantic plot hole, and it's there solely because of how badly the scene is written. How would the settlement even know it was the WLF if they just killed them and left no trace? Logically, the entire story should just right there. This complete trashes abbys character, regardless of whether the character is a good person or not, we still need to have something to get behind them by. This scene only establishes that
Abby is brutal
Abby will kill someone regardless of what they or haven't done
Abby is incredibly stupid (she left Tommy and Ellie alive)
For a character that is set up to be sympathetic this is incredibly clumsy, ham-fisted and puzzling, because with the dynamic of her and Lev, it can be argued that she might be showing up the next instalments. That is a dreadful first impression of a character. It's particularly damning, because the game has some serious pacing issues. Rewriting how she kills Joel could have easily solved taken up the several hours you spend throwing rope around and solving some of the puzzles in early game. It would also establish much more favourable (not good) traits for the reader to get behind abby, allowing her to possibly transition to main character role if needed.
Lastly, Ellie herself acts like a fukking idiot. She gets the warning that Joel didn't come back from jesse. Cool. She gets to the mansion (that isn't guarded why?) okay. She can HEAR Joel being tortured (you can hear it audibly in the level). She then sees Abby getting her tiger wood on, on joels face. She has a clear shot, with a pistol. Why does she barge in? Once again, the character had to become an idiot just for this scene to work. There is way too much convenience going on here, and way too many stars aligning for Abby imo. Joel just...falls into her lap, she damn near won the lottery. Sidenote, why is abby so damn big? you can't even get that big in real life without SERIOUS work, how is she pulling this off (an then losing most of this muscle mind you) in a damn end world apocalypse?
Dina/Mel/Owen
The scene with the pregnant women is just weird. I lost my suspension of belief here. Firstly, pregnant women ain't that fukking mobile. Not in any dimension. Secondly, why was she okay for a god damn mission? We see early on that there is quite a few WLF? Why not just sit her ass down? and even if not? what use is a damn pregnant woman next to you in a fight? Thirdly, when ellie sticks them up, why is owen doing everything BUT saying that his woman is pregnant?
Why does he wait until he gets shanked in the neck to then point out he's pregnant? He could have easily just offered himself and said "please dont hurt her, shes pregnant" and tried to appeal to abbies humanity. That scene just, once again, felt too convenient and was placed there for shock. Even him announcing it felt forced. A better way to do that, would be to just have Ellie search Mel, and then see the bump. Boom automatically better. But still doesn't solve why nobody mentioned pregnancy until they're damn near dead. Who does that?
The ending imo made no sense within the rules of the story, let alone the universe. Ellie wants to end the cycle of revenge. Cool. What isn't cool, is that she's beat, cut and maimed her way through hordes of NPCs to get to this point. By the games own rules, someone will be coming to get her, same way Joel got snuffed by a random persons daughter. Broken Aesop, immediately.
Also, Ellie is a loved character, having her just lose everything like that, and effectively become Joel, without even getting the player satisfaction to kill abby, just fukking sucks for an ending. Not all endings have to be nice (see - GTA4, or RDR1 and 2, or even the dues ex series) but they do need to be satisfying. Ellie just loses everything, her friends, her fingers, her morality, her sense. She might as well have killed herself. There is much more things I dislike (like Tommys character, and the fukking farmhouse) but that's my general gist of why the story irks me the more I think bout it.
Jesse
Jesse just feels like a composite character in a sense. His only role in the story (imo) was to be there to impregnate Dina, so that a level of drama/tension could be present in the story for later on. This actually came up during the stream, cus someone cracked a "JESSE THE CUCK!" joke, and due to the game just dragging in the beginning, we had time to think bout it. The dialogue between the three just felt...off after realising that. No way is anyone gonna be remotely cool with a friend banging your ex of one week. Why this doesn't come up more often in the story is beyond me, especially as he dies. His character in the end just feels like a plot device to forward certain parts of the story, and then to give a parallel at the end (which i will get to)
Joel, or his death rather.
For the record, i have no problem with Joel dying. BUT, there is a lot to get into with my feelings on this one, and much of it stems from me also writing myself. The first part is Abby herself, being saved. Joel from what the viewer is shown is as paranoid as batman, so having him just show up to save a stranger he doesn't know, when in the first game he was ready to kill someone who even knew his name is just...strange. Strike 1 in my eyes. Jesse and Tommy just giving their details is beyond dodgy, them inviting them back to their settlement, whilst their wearing WLF jackets, is another "what the fukk" moment (isn't Tommy an ex WLF?). This very same point comes up again, because when Tommy wants to send some people to get Abby and her crew, he's refused as the settlement is constantly being attacked.
Why is, in a time of war effectively, two wanted men inviting strangers back to a home base? that isn't a blatant plothole, but it is very convenient and at best, very out of character for those two.
Secondly, Abby is a character we are supposed to sympathise with. However, the first time we see her, someone else has to save her life, and then she kills that man brutally in response, an then not only that, SHE LEAVES ellie and Tommy alive, the only people logically that would recognise them, it's even pointed out that they are going to come after them immediately. There is no reason to leave Ellie and Tommy alive other than for plot convenience. This in my opinion is a gigantic plot hole, and it's there solely because of how badly the scene is written. How would the settlement even know it was the WLF if they just killed them and left no trace? Logically, the entire story should just right there. This complete trashes abbys character, regardless of whether the character is a good person or not, we still need to have something to get behind them by. This scene only establishes that
Abby is brutal
Abby will kill someone regardless of what they or haven't done
Abby is incredibly stupid (she left Tommy and Ellie alive)
For a character that is set up to be sympathetic this is incredibly clumsy, ham-fisted and puzzling, because with the dynamic of her and Lev, it can be argued that she might be showing up the next instalments. That is a dreadful first impression of a character. It's particularly damning, because the game has some serious pacing issues. Rewriting how she kills Joel could have easily solved taken up the several hours you spend throwing rope around and solving some of the puzzles in early game. It would also establish much more favourable (not good) traits for the reader to get behind abby, allowing her to possibly transition to main character role if needed.
Lastly, Ellie herself acts like a fukking idiot. She gets the warning that Joel didn't come back from jesse. Cool. She gets to the mansion (that isn't guarded why?) okay. She can HEAR Joel being tortured (you can hear it audibly in the level). She then sees Abby getting her tiger wood on, on joels face. She has a clear shot, with a pistol. Why does she barge in? Once again, the character had to become an idiot just for this scene to work. There is way too much convenience going on here, and way too many stars aligning for Abby imo. Joel just...falls into her lap, she damn near won the lottery. Sidenote, why is abby so damn big? you can't even get that big in real life without SERIOUS work, how is she pulling this off (an then losing most of this muscle mind you) in a damn end world apocalypse?
Dina/Mel/Owen
The scene with the pregnant women is just weird. I lost my suspension of belief here. Firstly, pregnant women ain't that fukking mobile. Not in any dimension. Secondly, why was she okay for a god damn mission? We see early on that there is quite a few WLF? Why not just sit her ass down? and even if not? what use is a damn pregnant woman next to you in a fight? Thirdly, when ellie sticks them up, why is owen doing everything BUT saying that his woman is pregnant?
Why does he wait until he gets shanked in the neck to then point out he's pregnant? He could have easily just offered himself and said "please dont hurt her, shes pregnant" and tried to appeal to abbies humanity. That scene just, once again, felt too convenient and was placed there for shock. Even him announcing it felt forced. A better way to do that, would be to just have Ellie search Mel, and then see the bump. Boom automatically better. But still doesn't solve why nobody mentioned pregnancy until they're damn near dead. Who does that?
The ending imo made no sense within the rules of the story, let alone the universe. Ellie wants to end the cycle of revenge. Cool. What isn't cool, is that she's beat, cut and maimed her way through hordes of NPCs to get to this point. By the games own rules, someone will be coming to get her, same way Joel got snuffed by a random persons daughter. Broken Aesop, immediately.
Also, Ellie is a loved character, having her just lose everything like that, and effectively become Joel, without even getting the player satisfaction to kill abby, just fukking sucks for an ending. Not all endings have to be nice (see - GTA4, or RDR1 and 2, or even the dues ex series) but they do need to be satisfying. Ellie just loses everything, her friends, her fingers, her morality, her sense. She might as well have killed herself. There is much more things I dislike (like Tommys character, and the fukking farmhouse) but that's my general gist of why the story irks me the more I think bout it.
Lol definitely, but obviously I’m not saying all that other shyt, whether she kills her or not she should absolutely be returning to nothing
MisterMajesty
All Star
This wasn't really at me, but if you check my earlier post. It has some of (not all) the points that I feel are a bit wack for the story.
MisterMajesty
All Star
Also, despite all our disgreement in here. Can we ALL agree, that the worst part of this entire game was that fukking sex scene?
shyt was atrocious
shyt was atrocious
There’s a reason why that final cutscene was saved for the end. When Joel said he would do it all over again and Ellie said she would try to forgive him. People have their reason and deep down Ellie knew why Abby did what she did and basically accepted/forgave it. In addition to all the other shyt mentioned earlier(the parallels between characters, stopping the never ending cycle of obsession/violence/vengeance)
Why are people surprise that Abby is buff? She literally lives in a military installation that has its own farm and gym. Plus she seems like she is ranked high in their hierarchy
with how close she is with Issac. She aint the typical grunt that only sees the leader when he walks by.
with how close she is with Issac. She aint the typical grunt that only sees the leader when he walks by.
Also, despite all our disgreement in here. Can we ALL agree, that the worst part of this entire game was that fukking sex scene?
shyt was atrocious
absolutely lol
edit: also crazy how much discussion and debate is taking place with this game, reviewers weren’t lying when they said this game would be divisive as fukk
Then they should've chose a better flashback choice then him on his porch playing the guitar...
If she had flashbacks of him violently killing different people during that scene it would make more sense
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Uchiha God
Veteran
Not gonna lie my dude. nikkas said plot holes. And you start your post by saying “these aren’t plot holes per se”, so again, nikkas either being dishonest or don’t know what they’re talking about.
secondly, I’ve not read your post I glanced through the first couple paragraphs and;
1. Jesse wasn’t really cool with Ellie being with Dina. The flashback scene to the dance where Dina kisses Ellie, Jesse shows that he’s still harbouring hope of fixing shyt with Dina by asking Ellie “what? did she say anything to you?” When Ellie says they’ll be back together within a week. He also gets mad when he catches them semi naked at Eugene’s place (you can argue it’s because they’re meant to be on patrol, but still). Dina contextualized their relationship, they had been together for a while, and being on and off wasn’t new to them. He’s clearly close to Ellie too, a dude playing cool with somebody else being with their ex/acting like he’s moved on from his ex isn’t really that far fetched.
2. Tommy was never a WLF. He was ex Firefly.
They don’t know what WLF is/are. It’s not time of war at Jackson. They live in a peaceful community. Joel has been mellowed by Ellie. That was the point of the first game, plus he’s been staying in Jackson, a peaceful community with all kinds of amenities, for years. The idea that they would just go past and let a young woman be killed by infected is ridiculous, especially when they were on “patrol”.
Tommy telling these group of kids they can restock in Jackson before heading out is not weird seeing as these same kids literally just “saved them” by letting them through the gates to the mansion whilst they were being chased by an horde. That’s not to mention that to escape the building before you get to the mansion, while you’re controlling Abby, you’re tasked with keeping infected off of Tommy, sometimes he’ll even say “you saved my hide”.
I feel like you guys would benefit from a second play through
I’ve not read the rest of your post but so far, not looking good breh. I’ll get around to the rest when I finish work
I think its due to the conversation they had on that porch , where she says...she cant forgive him but she will try.
Maybe she apply that to Abby . I think some other poster mentioned it here.
Fair enough. Might try it one day
Uchiha God
Veteran
Game is only divisive because people are emotional idiots
nikkas saw Joel get offed, started seeing red and didn’t care to digest the rest of the game. Just started regurgitating what other loudmouth people on the internet are saying
I watched a review yesterday and dude articulated my thoughts, “you can’t even tell what the fukk the people that don’t like this game are mad about because they don’t even know what they are mad about”.
Like a breh said here earlier, if the story was some Kill Bill ride where Tommy dies and Joel and Ellie go across the country bodying people for it while telling each other shyt like “I’m gonna protect you” nikkas would be happy as shyt
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