The Last of Us Part II Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Carlton Banks]

I'm very 50/50 on the game right now, but I feel like if I play it a few more times I'll probably like it more.

I think it would've been appreciated more if they had waited to kill Joel towards the end whilst building up a bigger Abby/Joel confrontation. They really forced it and made zero sense letting Ellie and Tommy live when they could've just killed them. The fact that they were on some righteous high moral crap after just torturing and killing a man (who saved Abby's life) felt stupid.

Also I feel like this was a game that definitely could've and should've had multiple endings like with Walking Dead. I thought in the end they'd give you the option to fight Abby or just sail off. And if you fought Abby they'd give you an option to just kill her or let her live. But I guess they're leaving a part 3 open, which I really don't care for at this point.

 

[kingofnyc]

I said no cares to your point of Abbies dad not having the right to operate on Ellie...again who the fukk cares, again your taking someone’s answer and relating it to something completely different

And no one can answer you because it legit doesn't make sense to when we have played the game and actually played out Abbys revenge and have seen why she wants revenge.



I don’t think he’s trolling anymore, this guy might really be this slow

So now you have to resort to calling me names like I’m slow because you’re losing this debate

The Last of Us Part II will be a tale of revenge, its director says

https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/14/17464690/last-of-us-part-2-neil-druckmann-interview-e3-2018

 

[Consumed]

We’re confused because he keeps saying what Abby did to Joel wasn’t revenge, I can’t give you much more than that because that’s all he keeps saying

seems cut and dry. killed her father, she wants to kill the person who killed her father. ellie wants to kill the person who killed her father figure

 

[HiiiPower]

So now you have to resort to calling me names like I’m slow because you’re losing this debate




https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/14/17464690/last-of-us-part-2-neil-druckmann-interview-e3-2018

I’m the one who has been saying it’s about Revenge, you’re the one who has been claiming it isn’t, what is going on here

 

[Turbulent]

The more i think about this story, it's so dumb it's funny

Low key, i feel like the whole game is a legitimate troll job. Like a big fukk you to everyone. It's worst than the GoT ending cause at least with GoT, it just felt like they were rushing to tie up loose ends. This however feels like they are trying their hardest to anger people because of how nonsensical it is

 

[kingofnyc]

seems cut and dry. killed her father, she wants to kill the person who killed her father. ellie wants to kill the person who killed her father figure

It’s not cut and dry
Joel didn’t kill Abby’s father .... Abby‘s father killed himself - due to the simple fact he was going to take the life of someone he had no right too
as I previously said the minute Joe walked in the operating room he should’ve backed off and told Marlene in the fireflies to seek another person who’s immune to this virus but he didn’t
he stepped to Joel & once he knew he couldn’t overpower him , he grabbed a shank and put it into Joel’s face and as they say ... the rest is history

I’m the one who has been saying it’s about Revenge, you’re the one who has been claiming it isn’t, what is going on here

I don’t know how you got there maybe you miss read my statement
I’ve been trying to emphasize that the theme of this game is about revenge .... the question I’ve been asking is how is it about revenge when it comes to Abby for the millionth time her father did not have a right to take Ellie life & Joel had every right to defend Ellie life
so at the end of the day Abby gets absolutely positively no sympathy from me ; nor should anybody else with common sense - based off her fathers actions

I really hope this clarifies what we’ve been going back-and-forth with

 

[x2y]

It def drags in places and feels like it coulda been compressed more.

There were times where it felt like an apex was coming only for them to say, see that building another 10 miles away, we have to go there. Then there's 5 more 'areas' of humans or infected to clear to get there lol.

Exactly on the way to the ferris wheel I was having that moment, but damn the sound effects of that storm and them scar fukkers was dope but they could have easily trimmed some fat.

Not spending any time on tedious mini-objectives. Turning navigation on meant I always knew what to do and where to go to.

started the game on hard mode at first. Midway through I customized the difficulty settings in a way that allowed me to bypass skirmishes I didn't care about, while still making other battles fun if I so chose to engage in them.

Shaved off several hours from my playthrough this way.

Thanks for the tip I may try that to get threw these Abby sections faster.

 

[KushSkywalker]

It’s not cut and dry
Joel didn’t kill Abby’s father .... Abby‘s father killed himself - due to the simple fact he was going to take the life of someone he had no right too
as I previously said the minute Joe walked in the operating room he should’ve backed off and told Marlene in the fireflies to seek another person who’s immune to this virus but he didn’t
he stepped to Joel & once he knew he couldn’t overpower him , he grabbed a shank and put it into Joel’s face and as they say ... the rest is history





I don’t know how you got there maybe you miss read my statement
I’ve been trying to emphasize that the theme of this game is about revenge .... the question I’ve been asking is how is it about revenge when it comes to Abby for the millionth time her father did not have a right to take Ellie life & Joel had every right to defend Ellie life
so at the end of the day Abby gets absolutely positively no sympathy from me ; nor should anybody else with common sense - based off her fathers actions

I really hope this clarifies what we’ve been going back-and-forth with

Right and wrong has nothing to do with Abby being upset she lost her father. Everyone in this world exists in a morally grey area. Whether her dad deserved what he got factors ZERO into HER motivations. I'm not sure what is confusing about that. Anyone who has a loved one killed in this gritty world would probably want revenge. The fact that Abby killed Joel to avenge her father is passed an opinion, it's a fact within the plot.

Sounds like you are really just arguing that Abby deserved no sympathy, which is ironic because nobody is arguing she does. It could be argued none of these characters deserve sympathy. We are talking about understanding her motivations.(which are pretty clear, so much so they are borderline ham-fisted and blatant)

If I'm a kid surviving in a post disaster world and my only surviving family member (my dad) gets killed I'm not going to be sitting there analyzing the morality of the situation and the justifications of his death. My dad's dead I miss him and I'm going to get who did it, pretty simple. You are speaking from the omniscient viewer perspective and not the character.

Finding her father dead haunts her in her dreams sporadically throughout the game, she is so bent on finding her fathers killer that the lead that sends her to Jackson is a DECADE later.

None of this stuff has to do with who was right or who was wrong or should such and such have done this or that. It's all just human emotion.

When Abby killed Joel did Ellie sit back and ponder whether Joel deserved it or not? did Ellie go "well Joel shouldn't have helped a stranger and gone back to their camp so I'm not going to seek revenge" No she didn't because she could give two fukks, she knows Joel has done fukked up shyt, everyone has. All she cares is someone she loved got killed and she's going to get who did it.

That's the whole point of the story is the duality of both characters doing the same exact thing for the same reasons and you getting to observe their motivations from their perspective.

 

[HiiiPower]

It’s not cut and dry
Joel didn’t kill Abby’s father .... Abby‘s father killed himself - due to the simple fact he was going to take the life of someone he had no right too
as I previously said the minute Joe walked in the operating room he should’ve backed off and told Marlene in the fireflies to seek another person who’s immune to this virus but he didn’t
he stepped to Joel & once he knew he couldn’t overpower him , he grabbed a shank and put it into Joel’s face and as they say ... the rest is history





I don’t know how you got there maybe you miss read my statement
I’ve been trying to emphasize that the theme of this game is about revenge .... the question I’ve been asking is how is it about revenge when it comes to Abby for the millionth time her father did not have a right to take Ellie life & Joel had every right to defend Ellie life
so at the end of the day Abby gets absolutely positively no sympathy from me ; nor should anybody else with common sense - based off her fathers actions

I really hope this clarifies what we’ve been going back-and-forth with

Ok now I’m understanding your stance a bit better, and that’s fair enough if that’s your view, but from the perspective of Abbie, for HER, it’s about revenge, whether it was his place to perform that operation or not or whether Joel was Justified...from Abbies point of View, it’s Revenge for HER fathers murder. I’m not sure how else to put that, from the poi t of view of THIS narrative, that is her stance and motive, whether you like what she did or not, it is what it is

 

[HiiiPower]

When Abby killed Joel did Ellie sit back and ponder whether Joel deserved it or not? did Ellie go "well Joel shouldn't have helped a stranger and gone back to their camp so I'm not going to seek revenge" No she didn't because she could give two fukks, she knows Joel has done fukked up shyt, everyone has. All she cares is someone she loved got killed and she's going to get who did it.

That's the whole point of the story is the duality of both characters doing the same exact thing for the same reasons and you getting to observe their motivations from their perspective.

@kingofnyc or in another way this, I think you are letting your personal feelings on if you feel the game itself justifies this get confused on if it makes narrative sense for Abby to justify killing him, which it does, whether you agree with it or not is an entirely different discussion

 

[Uitomy]

I'm very 50/50 on the game right now, but I feel like if I play it a few more times I'll probably like it more.

I think it would've been appreciated more if they had waited to kill Joel towards the end whilst building up a bigger Abby/Joel confrontation. They really forced it and made zero sense letting Ellie and Tommy live when they could've just killed them. The fact that they were on some righteous high moral crap after just torturing and killing a man (who saved Abby's life) felt stupid.

Also I feel like this was a game that definitely could've and should've had multiple endings like with Walking Dead. I thought in the end they'd give you the option to fight Abby or just sail off. And if you fought Abby they'd give you an option to just kill her or let her live. But I guess they're leaving a part 3 open, which I really don't care for at this point.

Actually now that I think about it, they really could've made a plotline where you control Abby with the choice to kill or save Joel, but it's kinda clear they needed to just finish the story cause of all the distractions happening behined the scenes

 

[statuez]

Finished the game yesterday and I enjoyed playing the game. The tense moments were solid and by the end of it I actually didn't really want to kill Abby.

That being said, the narrative structure is my main gripe with this game. You can't go and murk the main hero in the first game then be forced to play as Joel's murderer for 15+ hours and expect players to be OK with it after the fact.

The proper way was to build up Abby's character through flashbacks or even a scenario where Abby gets close to the Jackson crew and the climax would be murking Joel. We need a reason to root/like her before she kills Joel not after the fact. In addition, the way in which she brutally and tortured Joel rubs me the wrong way in her redemption arc story. It's one thing to just straight up kill a man as an act of revenge and in some cases its reasonable to sympathize with said character. Its a completely different thing when said character travels across states to enact revenge, get saved by the person who they want to murder and rather then some type of mercy/quick killing, they take pleasure in torture. How does one sympathize with this?

Might be a bad example but this is equivalent to Ramsay Bolton torturing, maiming and murdering Theon and then the writers providing a back story to why he's actually not a bad person. It just doesn't work IMO.

The Lev & Yara side story was great and probably the highlight of Abby's playthrough but keep in mind this act of kindness only happened because they saved her. I'm pretty sure she would of been on board with the mass slaughter of the Seraphites on the island. There needed to be more scenes that show her humanity before and after the Joel scene IMO. Side characters were mostly underdeveloped as well and used as a prop to when they inevitably die in front of you.

Anyways I enjoyed the parallels in the end between Joel and Ellie in TLOU and Abby/Yev in Part 2 but I think this could of been highlighted without adding on the Santa Barbara story even if the visuals were gorgeous. Once the Seattle Day 3 climax hits, all main protagonists/antagonists + side characters are all at one location. It would of been a great way to tie up the story in that manner.

 

[Consumed]

It’s not cut and dry
Joel didn’t kill Abby’s father .... Abby‘s father killed himself - due to the simple fact he was going to take the life of someone he had no right too
as I previously said the minute Joe walked in the operating room he should’ve backed off and told Marlene in the fireflies to seek another person who’s immune to this virus but he didn’t
he stepped to Joel & once he knew he couldn’t overpower him , he grabbed a shank and put it into Joel’s face and as they say ... the rest is history

I mean he literally killed Abby's father. That part of it is cut and dry. We can talk about the circumstances of such but Abby walked into that room shortly after with none of the context. All she sees is her father dead it motivates her to seek revenge.

 

[TobiOT]

The user score will change a bit in the next few weeks but for now.

 

[Lurk Angle]

Its just so sad that this game was ruined by feminism