'The Last of Us' HBO Series (NO GAME SPOILERS!) | Season 2 Coming 2025 With 7 Episodes |

[shonuff]

Henry balanced everything out by making the ultimate sacrifice (killing his brother) for the "greater good" (saving Ellie).

Obviously, I'm not saying that was the "right" or "wrong" decision but he did it. Ellie and Joel were able to continue on because of it.

he didnt know he was going to ever have to kill his brother when he made the deal to betray the the KC resistance leader.

he made that deal to benefit himself and save his brother - at the expense of everyone else

this is principaly why every says Joel is "wrong" by saving ellie and denying the world a chance for a cure ( IMO not that the world could be changed at all just because a cure was found but thats a separate convo altogether)

Joel did on a marco scale ( the supposed "world" ) what Henry did on a smaller scale ( KC ) - he picked who he loved over everyone elses benefit... you cant say Henry isnt a "POS selfish person" for saving his brother and then turn around and say Joel is a "POS selfish person " for saving Ellie - they both did the same thing for the same reason.

and mind you Henry didnt know that Ellie is immune - Ellie was just a girl to him - Ellie revealed her immunity ONLY to Sam hours before he was to turn - Joel sure as hell wouldnt say anything about Ellie being immune to Henry

Henry shot his brother because he knew that letting his Brother kill ellie was the wrong thing to do . after he killed his brother he couldnt live withthe fact that he would have to live without him so he shot himself

now take things even deeper _ Joel admitted to Ellie he tried to kill himself because he had nothing to live for. ....until she came along - so when he is faced with a situation wher they are telling him he has to be OK with her death - well it should be a no brainer why he decides notonly to kill to save ellie but also to kill to save himself - dude jsut did the one thing he has spent 20 years avoiding ( forming a personal attachment ) this very situation .

he is again in a situation where a soldier is about to kill his "daughter"-

he beat that FEDRA soldier to death when he threatened Ellie back in Boston QZ - and he didnt even like her like that .....that whoel reaction was in flashback to when his own daughter was killed.

so he absolutely was gonna suicide himself if he lost ellie which is why he switched on terminator mode

he would make an effort to save his "daughter" and if he died he died becuase just like Henry he knew he would rather be dead than live without Ellie his "daughter"

 

[King Static X]

he didnt know he was going to ever have to kill his brother when he made the deal to betray the the KC resistance leader.

he made that deal to benefit himself and save his brother - at the expense of everyone else

this is principaly why every says Joel is "wrong" by saving ellie and denying the world a chance for a cure ( IMO not that the world could be changed at all just because a cure was found but thats a separate convo altogether)

Joel did on a marco scale ( the supposed "world" ) what Henry did on a smaller scale ( KC ) - he picked who he loved over everyone elses benefit... you cant say Henry isnt a "POS selfish person" for saving his brother and then turn around and say Joel is a "POS selfish person " for saving Ellie - they both did the same thing for the same reason.

and mind you Henry didnt know that Ellie is immune - Ellie was just a girl to him - Ellie revealed her immunity ONLY to Sam hours before he was to turn - Joel sure as hell wouldnt say anything about Ellie being immune to Henry

Ellie didn't have to reveal her immunity to Henry. He still killed his brother and in the process saved her. Simple as that.

But otherwise, yes, the point of the whole story is that NO ONE is the "good guy" in The Last of Us. Joel is a piece of sh!t but people only like Joel because they know Joel's story and sympathize with him.

If TLOU was from the perspective of different characters, people wouldn't give a f*ck about Joel.

 

[shonuff]

Ellie didn't have to reveal her immunity to Henry. He still killed his brother and in the process saved her. Simple as that.

But otherwise, yes, the point of the whole story is that NO ONE is the "good guy" in The Last of Us. Joel is a piece of sh!t but people only like Joel because they know Joel's story and sympathize with him.

If TLOU was from the perspective of different characters, people wouldn't give a f*ck about Joel.

hmm again when Henry betrayed the KC rebel leader he was doing it for himself - and of course to save his brother

whatever his acts AFTERWARDS it doesnt matter .....

Joel acts in his interests to save Ellie and himself the same as Henry acted in is interest to save his brother - so its not that there is a "good guy" its that you cant say Joel is a "bad" guy unless you keep it a buck and also judge Henry by that same scale which would make him a "bad' guy too.

just as Henry said "he isnt a bad guy - but he did a bad guy thing" - Joel did a "bad guy" thing - but he isnt a "bad" guy

 

[Shogun]

hmm again when Henry betrayed the KC rebel leader he was doing it for himself - and of course to save his brother

whatever his acts AFTERWARDS it doesnt matter .....

Joel acts in his interests to save Ellie and himself the same as Henry acted in is interest to save his brother - so its not that there is a "good guy" its that you cant say Joel is a "bad" guy unless you keep it a buck and also judge Henry by that same scale which would make him a "bad' guy too.

just as Henry said "he isnt a bad guy - but he did a bad guy thing" - Joel did a "bad guy" thing - but he isnt a "bad" guy

In True Detective when Rust says, "The world needs bad men. We keep the other bad men from the door"....thats pretty much how I think of Joel.

 

[shonuff]

It definitely wont translate better on TV especially if they follow the same pacing of season 1…

Spoiler: Do not read if you haven’t played TLOU part 2

As most of us know, the issue with the story isn’t dude being offed, it’s how/when it happened and how the rest of the story plays out after that scene…

The story after that scene is textbook seen it 100 times generic Hollywood revenge quest with no pay off and breaks Ellie’s character…She made it a point to tell Joel in part 1 “it can’t be for nothing” yet everything she does in part 2 is literally for nothing…

Spoiler: ABSOLUTELY DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU DONT WANT THE NEXT SEASON SPOILED AND YOU HAVENT PLAYED TLOU 2

not only is it a revenge quest but its a revenge quest that given what abbi went through PREVIOUS to her coming in contact with Joel it makes no sense how she then decides to kill him -

and likewise Ellie not "understanding" why joel lied ...again it makes no sense for her to then decide to be so consumed with vengeance as to set off and not only go to murder abbie but rescue her and then decide to have a FIGHT to the death with her

 

[Ziggiy]

he didnt know he was going to ever have to kill his brother when he made the deal to betray the the KC resistance leader.

he made that deal to benefit himself and save his brother - at the expense of everyone else

this is principaly why every says Joel is "wrong" by saving ellie and denying the world a chance for a cure ( IMO not that the world could be changed at all just because a cure was found but thats a separate convo altogether)

Joel did on a marco scale ( the supposed "world" ) what Henry did on a smaller scale ( KC ) - he picked who he loved over everyone elses benefit... you cant say Henry isnt a "POS selfish person" for saving his brother and then turn around and say Joel is a "POS selfish person " for saving Ellie - they both did the same thing for the same reason.

and mind you Henry didnt know that Ellie is immune - Ellie was just a girl to him - Ellie revealed her immunity ONLY to Sam hours before he was to turn - Joel sure as hell wouldnt say anything about Ellie being immune to Henry

Henry shot his brother because he knew that letting his Brother kill ellie was the wrong thing to do . after he killed his brother he couldnt live withthe fact that he would have to live without him so he shot himself

now take things even deeper _ Joel admitted to Ellie he tried to kill himself because he had nothing to live for. ....until she came along - so when he is faced with a situation wher they are telling him he has to be OK with her death - well it should be a no brainer why he decides notonly to kill to save ellie but also to kill to save himself - dude jsut did the one thing he has spent 20 years avoiding ( forming a personal attachment ) this very situation .

he is again in a situation where a soldier is about to kill his "daughter"-

he beat that FEDRA soldier to death when he threatened Ellie back in Boston QZ - and he didnt even like her like that .....that whoel reaction was in flashback to when his own daughter was killed.

so he absolutely was gonna suicide himself if he lost ellie which is why he switched on terminator mode

he would make an effort to save his "daughter" and if he died he died becuase just like Henry he knew he would rather be dead than live without Ellie his "daughter"

Henry did the right thing in both circumstances

He saved his brother. Thats what you’re SUPPOSED to do. One of the series themes is how far people are willing to go to protect their families and loved ones.

When he shot Sam at the end it wasn’t for the “greater” good necessarily. It was because Sam was no longer Sam. He was an infected, a monster, no longer his family. Saving Ellie was the right thing to do at that time but it wasn’t a “greater good” moment because there was really no true sacrifice. Sam for all intents and purposes was dead.

In every situation throughout the series where someone is given a choice between family and the community, they choose family. Tommy was going to take Ellie to Salt Lake City as a favor to Joel, his last living family member. Joel took Ellie on the journey as Tess’s last living wish, the only family he had at the moment. Bill was willing to die alongside Frank rather than continue living, because that was his only family. And so on and so forth until we get to Joel killing everyone in favor of saving his “daughter” Ellie

 

[shonuff]

In True Detective when Rust says, "The world needs bad men. We keep the other bad men from the door"....thats pretty much how I think of Joel.

thats what bill essentially says to Joel in the letter in addition to the point about "surviving" versus "living" in light of how they framed the ending of this TV show i see why they made ep 3 the way they did .....

 

[shonuff]

Henry did the right thing in both circumstances

He saved his brother. Thats what you’re SUPPOSED to do. One of the series themes is how far people are willing to go to protect their families and loved ones.

When he shot Sam at the end it wasn’t for the “greater” good necessarily. It was because Sam was no longer Sam. He was an infected, a monster, no longer his family. Saving Ellie was the right thing to do at that time but it wasn’t a “greater good” moment because there was really no true sacrifice. Sam for all intents and purposes was dead.

In every situation throughout the series where someone is given a choice between family and the community, they choose family. Tommy was going to take Ellie to Salt Lake City as a favor to Joel, his last living family member. Joel took Ellie on the journey as Tess’s last living wish, the only family he had at the moment. Bill was willing to die alongside Frank rather than continue living, because that was his only family. And so on and so forth until we get to Joel killing everyone in favor of saving his “daughter” Ellie

and this is why i kinda side eye people when they say Joel is wrong for saving ellie and killing the Firefies .

he is supposed to save Ellie - he is doing the thing that Anna trusted Marlene to do - he is doing the very thing the Henry did for his brother

Marlene betrayed Anna by serving Ellie up to be experimented on ...... she placed her in the safest environment ( FEDRA orphanage ) because she couldnt keep ellie safe if she insisted on doing Firefly shyt ....but then years later she lies to Ellie even to the end when Ellie GETS to the hospital .....marlene is the cold ass person she thought Joel was ....and Joel showed he wasnt.

and mind you folk saying Ellie would have wanted to allow her self to be killed ...i think if sam knew what his brother did he wouldnt want him to do it either but BOTH are children. Ellie is a child so is Sam - and in their minds both of them feel like they are "heroes" ( sam draws pictures of himself saving people ) Ellie feels she has no value and has survivors guilt as a child - she cant possibly really make an informed decision about whether she should be killed since she already thinks she shouldnt be alive when Riley Tess Sam and Henry and others were killed because of the Virus.

 

[The Fukin Prophecy]

Spoiler: ABSOLUTELY DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU DONT WANT THE NEXT SEASON SPOILED AND YOU HAVENT PLAYED TLOU 2

not only is it a revenge quest but its a revenge quest that given what abbi went through PREVIOUS to her coming in contact with Joel it makes no sense how she then decides to kill him -

and likewise Ellie not "understanding" why joel lied ...again it makes no sense for her to then decide to be so consumed with vengeance as to set off and not only go to murder abbie but rescue her and then decide to have a FIGHT to the death with her

Spoiler: Do not read TLOU part 2

And telling him to guess who she was beyond stupid…

How the fukk was he supposed to guess who daughter she is? Like dude is supposed to make a mental note of all the people he’s murdered and who their children are…mind numbing writing…

 

[King Static X]

and this is why i kinda side eye people when they say Joel is wrong for saving ellie and killing the Firefies .

he is supposed to save Ellie - he is doing the thing that Anna trusted Marlene to do - he is doing the very thing the Henry did for his brother

Marlene betrayed Anna by serving Ellie up to be experimented on ...... she placed her in the safest environment ( FEDRA orphanage ) because she couldnt keep ellie safe if she insisted on doing Firefly shyt ....but then years later she lies to Ellie even to the end when Ellie GETS to the hospital .....marlene is the cold ass person she thought Joel was ....and Joel showed he wasnt.

and mind you folk saying Ellie would have wanted to allow her self to be killed ...i think if sam knew what his brother did he wouldnt want him to do it either but BOTH are children. Ellie is a child so is Sam - and in their minds both of them feel like they are "heroes" ( sam draws pictures of himself saving people ) Ellie feels she has no value and has survivors guilt as a child - she cant possibly really make an informed decision about whether she should be killed since she already thinks she shouldnt be alive when Riley Tess Sam and Henry and others were killed because of the Virus.

Being 8 years old (Sam) and 14 years old (Ellie) are 2 different things. Also, Sam was deaf.

Sam was severely disadvantaged.

 

[King Static X]

hmm again when Henry betrayed the KC rebel leader he was doing it for himself - and of course to save his brother

whatever his acts AFTERWARDS it doesnt matter .....

Joel acts in his interests to save Ellie and himself the same as Henry acted in is interest to save his brother - so its not that there is a "good guy" its that you cant say Joel is a "bad" guy unless you keep it a buck and also judge Henry by that same scale which would make him a "bad' guy too.

just as Henry said "he isnt a bad guy - but he did a bad guy thing" - Joel did a "bad guy" thing - but he isnt a "bad" guy

Joel is a bad guy and they say so in the series. Once again, like I said, a lot of people don't care because they like and sympathize with Joel.

There are NO "good guys" in TLOU.

 

[shonuff]

Spoiler: Do not read TLOU part 2

And telling him to guess who she was beyond stupid…

How the fukk was he supposed to guess who daughter she is? Like dude is supposed to make a mental note of all the people he’s murdered and who their children are…mind numbing writing…

Spoiler: Do not read TLOU part 2 spoiler

ok and this again was the other thing that didnt make sense - like Joel has spent years killing people being suspicious of strangers -etc
he knows there are people who want him dead - so the fact that he would tell strangers his name let alone his FULL name

dudes who were cowboys in the old west didnt use their name unless it mean that they were about to do the shyt they were known for...like if youre Jesse James you didnt let people know you were Jesse James unless it was time for Jesse James to come out.... otehr wise you were "john" or "jack" or "jimmy" or fukking "archibald"

 

[shonuff]

Being 8 years old (Sam) and 14 years old (Ellie) are 2 different things. Also, Sam was deaf.

Sam was severely disadvantaged.

Ellie was severely disadvantaged too-

she was fukking unconscious.....

and sam being 8 and ellie being 14 are the SAME thing - they are kids - they even show you how she gets down easily on his level - she still even does kid things like run off when she is excited ..... at the end of the day shes a child .

Joel is a bad guy and they say so in the series. Once again, like I said, a lot of people don't care because they like and sympathize with Joel.

There are NO "good guys" in TLOU.

again he is a guy that does bad guy things - just like Henry did bad guy things - Henry didnt just get to betray the leader by doing that ONE betrayal - he had to betray a LOT of people and cause their deaths to eventually get next to the leader to betray him cause his torturous death and save his brother

so again maybe there are no good guys ( im certainly not saying he is a Good Guy ) - but you cant say Joel in his act against the FF and saving Elllie makes him a "bad" guy.

he did exactly what he should have done.

 

[MischievousMonkey]

Side note but Ellie in the show is partly responsible for Henry's death.

She knew his lil bro was immune and didn't reveal it to him when they could have at least shared his last moments together and have Joel terminate him at the end. That was an insane mistake

 

[rabbitfood]

Too bad they killed off Kathleen. Imagine her and her people tracking Joel and Ellie all the way to the hospital and having a standoff with everybody. Her tusslin' with Marlene for alpha female status would've made for amazing television.