'The Last of Us' HBO Series (NO GAME SPOILERS!) | Season 2 Coming 2025 With 7 Episodes |

[Gizmo_Duck]

She's not his daughter.

The man broke down in tears over putting him in a situation where he takes care of another teenage girl only to potentially see her murdered again in front of his face.

The messaging isn’t exactly subtle

 

[Ziggiy]

Why is there so much reverence for Joel in this show?

Marlene: I prayed that I was never indebted to you and now I owe you.


fukk all that. Peel this nikka’s cap so he doesn’t fukk up your objective. Why she even lowered her gun at the end instead of pooping him when she had the drop on him… I’ll never know

Agreed

Even though the scene was well acted they didn’t do enough to establish any type of relationship between Joel and Marlene where she wouldn’t have shot him IMMEDIATELY in the parking lot.

I kinda get her letting him go initially because he held up his end of the bargain and basically letting him live was his “Job well done”. Ok fair.

But after killing everybody in the hospital THAT was the point of no return and she would have known that. Clapping him would have been inevitable given the chance.

I feel like if they were going that route they should have done more to establish some sort of reason why Marlene would want to spare him. Did he personally save her life once? Saved someone she cared about? Were they once lovers? ANYTHING to justify her decision making in that scene.

 

[MischievousMonkey]

Agreed

Even though the scene was well acted they didn’t do enough to establish any type of relationship between Joel and Marlene where she wouldn’t have shot him IMMEDIATELY in the parking lot.

I kinda get her letting him go initially because he held up his end of the bargain and basically letting him live was his “Job well done”. Ok fair.

But after killing everybody in the hospital THAT was the point of no return and she would have known that. Clapping him would have been inevitable given the chance.

I feel like if they were going that route they should have done more to establish some sort of reason why Marlene would want to spare him. Did he personally save her life once? Saved someone she cared about? Were they once lovers? ANYTHING to justify her decision making in that scene.

She can't risk taking that shot with Ellie in his arms though

 

[Ziggiy]

That was a great finale. I understand whoever wanted more action against infected but I personally didn't need any more than what they showed so

Joel confessing he almost killed himself and then telling Ellie in the most Joel way possible that she was his "cure" was incredible

My only nitpick is that Ellie's is much more focused on getting to the Fireflies and give her life some meaning by helping find a cure in the game, she basically tells you she doesn't care if she dies as long as her life was worth it (by helping find a cure). That sentiment wasn't that well presented in the TV show. Ellie does want to help find a cure but her purpose is all over the place, as opposed to the game.

And yes, on the TV show Joel's decisions comes across way worse. That dialogue in the end when she speaks to Ellie about Sarah is way creepier too as you can see Ellie's reaction being "this dude really is replacing his daughter with me" and in the end going "fukk it, he's the one good thing that I have left".

Craig Mazin for how he adapted an incredible video game and Neil Druckmann for being there to make sure shyt would be done the right way.

I could be wrong but I didn’t interpret it as him “replacing” Sarah with Ellie. Just like if you had a child who died and then your blessed to have a new child, that child doesn’t “replace” the old one but your still given a renewed sense of vigor, care, and responsibility. Thats what Ellie is to Joel. Not a replacement but more so a fresh start. He even made sure to point out the differences between Sarah and Ellie and let her know that he appreciated and embraced those differences. Joel came to love Ellie for Ellie, she’s a real daughter to him not simply a replacement.

 

[Ziggiy]

She can't risk taking that shot with Ellie in his arms though

She came from behind. She could have easily shot him in the back, no conversation needed.

But then the bullet could have went through Joel and pierced Ellie too so I guess your right.

 

[Black Mamba]

I would have asked that they wake her up and let her decide. Had they refused, I would have gone the violent route

And when Ellie would have woke up, I would have told her exactly what happened.

Now why didn't Joel do this and decided to lie?

Because it was a selfish move, and he was scared to death that she wouldn't fukk with him after that, which would have been the same as losing his new reason to live (they reinforced that aspect in that episode with the suicide part)...

The difference between me and you is that I don't need to paint the bad shyt in pretty colors to make it comfortable for me. I stay factual with it. Joel is a selfish liar who robbed Ellie of her life mission so that he wouldn't end up alone again Which is understandable... But doesn't change the seriousness of his actions

Marlene drugged Ellie up and was tryna kill her without her consent.

fukk Joel should ask and wait when this building is full of fireflies? Plus he gotta wait for Ellie to wake up with worrying with fireflies. Ready to shoot him. He don’t need to take that chance. Plus if she says fukk nah u right joel lets bounce them fireflies gon let em waltz like this wtf is u on. He had the element of suprise gunning all of em down aint no second chance He did what was right.
He Lied to protect her.
Plus she’s a damn kid the fukk they gon know about a life or death situation like that
You are a baby girl killah me and joel and em aren’t that’s the difference you are evil incarnate

 

[jwinfield]

The man broke down in tears over putting him in a situation where he takes care of another teenage girl only to potentially see her murdered again in front of his face.

The messaging isn’t exactly subtle

And when Marlene asked him what Ellie would want, he knew what she would've wanted and refused to answer.

When Ellie asked what really happened he lied because he knew what she would've wanted.

We've had Kathleen and Sam discuss making the choice to save someone you love over the potential lives of many.

Joel was a courier. He's done it many times before, he knew what the job was. It's great that he was able to find purpose in life through Ellie, but that doesn't make her his daughter or him her guardian or decision maker. Once they arrived at the destination, his job was done.

 

[Gizmo_Duck]

And when Marlene asked him what Ellie would want, he knew what she would've wanted and refused to answer.

When Ellie asked what really happened he lied because he knew what she would've wanted.

We've had Kathleen and Sam discuss making the choice to save someone you love over the potential lives of many.

Joel was a courier. He's done it many times before, he knew what the job was. It's great that he was able to find purpose in life through Ellie, but that doesn't make her his daughter or him her guardian or decision maker. Once they arrived at the destination, his job was done.

Its hard to really discuss this show without factoring the context of part 2 into it

 

[King Sun]

And when Marlene asked him what Ellie would want, he knew what she would've wanted and refused to answer.

When Ellie asked what really happened he lied because he knew what she would've wanted.

We've had Kathleen and Sam discuss making the choice to save someone you love over the potential lives of many.

Joel was a courier. He's done it many times before, he knew what the job was. It's great that he was able to find purpose in life through Ellie, but that doesn't make her his daughter or him her guardian or decision maker. Once they arrived at the destination, his job was done.

Honest question have you been watching this? being just "business" was off the table when homegirl was killed

 

[old pig]

I feel like if they were going that route they should have done more to establish some sort of reason why Marlene would want to spare him. Did he personally save her life once? Saved someone she cared about? Were they once lovers? ANYTHING to justify her decision making in that scene.

as I’m replaying the game, there is a part early on where tess and joel save her…idk why they eliminated that part from the show tho

 

[pickles]

I watched the latest episode.

So their whole motivation this season was to make it to the hospital?

What exactly is their motivation next season?
Just to stay alive?

 

[EzekelRAGE]

Obviously, it's a morally gray situation. However, Joel was the most wrong in the situation.

Anyways, like I said, even taking only the show into the equation, Ellie knows that Joel is lying. She sees that he doubles down on his lie. That "Okay" at the end was her realizing that.

Further, Ellie finally tells Joel that she had to kill Riley. Why do you think she told him that? She had to kill her best friend and love interest because of the apocalypse and she wants the apocalypse to end. Ellie would have probably agreed to do the surgery (that's why Marlene and the Fireflies were wrong to not tell her beforehand)

Marlene was right though when she said that what will happen to Joel when Ellie grows up and becomes an adult? What if Ellie decides to do the surgery with a different doctor? Joel can't wallow in his "love" for Ellie forever. Ellie is her own person.

I said Joel was wrong for lying.
No Joel is not the most wrong in the situation. The Fireflies/Marlene are
Marlene took away Ellie's choice and was about to kill her. At least Joel lying doesnt take her life.

Unless Ellie told Joel "Yes I will die for the cure", it doesnt matter what she told Joel beforehand. Anything other than that is up for interpretation by the viewer.
All the "she probably wouldve agreed" dont matter, because we'll never know since Marlene took that option away.

Because he robbed her of her ultimate goal in life That 14 shyt is meaningless in the world they live in, especially given Ellie's background who went through way too much shyt to be treated as a kid that just entered highschool in a normal world.

This shyt is not about letting her decide whether she can go to a sleepover or not, this is literally her purpose as she explicitly states it repeatedly throughout the series and at the end when she recalls what happened to Riley.

Btw, Joel recognizes her agency, 14 be damned, in episode 6 when he steps up to her in Jackson and says "I thought about it, and you should have a choice...". This is one of the set-ups that I don't remember being in the game, and that I liked in the show.

Please don't mind my argumentative tone, nothing personal, I just missed those part 1's ending passionate discussions

I agree with the lying being wrong

The other points you brought up are to the each user's pov and how they interpret it. Was just wrong for lying and betraying her trust? Sure, but I don't mind it.

And for the "14 in this world is mature" crowd, no she still doesnt understand the weight of some shyt and she has been sheltered damn near all her life in a Fedra camp. She's still a kid. Yall acting like she was on the streets since she was 2 and had a hard knock life.

 

[MischievousMonkey]

Its hard to really discuss this show without factoring the context of part 2 into it

Erh I don't think you really need it.

Spoiler

Most of the elements that make a comeback in part 2 were pointed out in the discussions surrounding the ending right after the game came out. It's just that some folks refused to consider them and acted confused with part 2 as if there suddenly was a desire to paint Joel as evil.

 

[Ziggiy]

Marlene seems like a real treacherous bytch to me

Her supposed BEST FRIEND bequeaths her hours old baby to your care…

And you just pawn her off the QZ? Don’t even attempt to raise her or look out for her and only enter her life when she’s discovered to have a once in a lifetime immunity?

Marlene deserved to die. The spirit of Ellie’s mother pulled that trigger as much as Joel did.

 

[pickles]

Kind of my feeling also. Like I wanted more infected, but as you said. Somebody is dying everytime they showed up. It wasn't a whole lot you could do to escape them.

Nikka watch walking dead then.

HBO is premium tv.

That shyt is beaten to dead. Zombies/Infected is just filler, adds nothing to the plot.