The irony of all this is that Triple Haitch is actually a B+ player

Art Barr

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stopped reading right there, I'm quoting the Rock saying he had the best matches of his career against HHH, this isn't spin


you are also quoting rock, who has also publically said he is aligned and knows where his bread is buttered.
so, he plays along with the clique rules.
then, swags all over them and uses them for his profitability and reach.

so, the rock saying his best matches, were with cripple ache has a deeper story to it.
a mark, like you.
who, does not understand admin based coup's and political pr.
will cite them without saying the full story.



Art Barr
 

Buggsy Mogues

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MSG is Advantage:Warrior though Savage headlined the building 6 times in 8 months huh?

if you want to call it a push I would not argue with that. I gave it to Warrior cause he sold it out and Savage didn't, but I think it's fair to say a push based on Savage headlining more, but Warrior having the sellout
 

Buggsy Mogues

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:wow:nikkas all up in this thread just wylin statin they biased opinions as facts.


Don't think yall nikkas slick ignorin this post when it shut EVERYONE'S arguments down.
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That post is informative, but it's very misleading. It's a great chart from Meltz but you have to take it at face value and realize what all it does and doesn't take into account. The only thing that matters is who the top draw was and even then, I'm skeptical, because where is Hogan/Hall/Nash in 97-98? Hogan is that low in 97 because he didn't work as many live shows as the other guys, especially the guys from WWF. I mean, lower than Luger? Come fukking on :comeon:

The second/third draw on those lists, if they are from the same company as the top draw, is usually irrelevant. In some cases it's not (In 88 Savage headlined a lot of shows without Hogan, in 90 Warrior headlined a lot of shows without Hogan -- and as I proved earlier, which as been ignored by @FreshAIG ,Warrior did equal if not better business). But for the most part that list is hard to read anything into. I mean, they have the fukking Big Bossman as the #3 draw in 88. May he rest in piece, but in no fukking way was he a draw like that. He is that high because he worked with Hogan almost every night, who was the main draw. Kamala is #4 in 87 because he feuded with Hogan for a lot of the year.
 

lutha

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just wanted to say i agree with this thread...that cat still trying to get on the top level...since he couldnt do it in the ring, he's trying to get to it through the bedroom and by marrying into the fam...shyt still aint helped lol
 
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Buggsy Mogues

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Macho Man was sent to commentary because he was he was 40. Around that time, Vince purged the roster of the 80s guys and Hogan was going to be phased out and into the 'Bruno role' too. The entire reason Hulk went to WCW. Randy Savage and HHH are two different levels, I thought the publicity Savage's death got taught you this. Do you understand what 650,000 ppv buys for Mania 5 in 1989 entails? The number of homes with cable in 1989 are a fraction of today yet that 650k isn't too far off from recent Mania's domestic buys. A number like that means there were two draws.

So one PPV buyrate that he headlined with HULK fukkING HOGAN is what makes Randy Savage some elite draw??
full
And not to downplay that.. it was a great Wrestlemania, one of the most compelling storylines in wrestling history featuring the biggest star ever and another very good drawing wrestler.

Let's get it straight - I'm not saying he's not a great draw. I'm not saying he's not an all-time legend. He is both of those things. But his career body of work is that of an A- player. To call him an A+ is to say he's on Hogan's level. To call him an A is to say he's on Flair's level. He is not. I know some here want to argue he is, but he isn't. He never carried a promotion on his back like Flair did for YEARS. Like, literally kept it afloat. Flair was THE DRAW in the south for years and years and years. Savage never had that kind of responsibility. He is not some bum, but he's not on that level either. The numbers just don't back it up.
 

R=G

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Rock also said "Sports Entertainer to Sports Entertainer, there is nobody better than the Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin" The Rock also called the Austin WM 17 the biggest match of the Attitude Era. Numbers prove it right.

Macho Man's house show numbers were a huge success. He did great on PPV. If you want it play it like that, what is Austin doing getting credit for any number past Invasion when Rock was on all cards? They act like Austin was the leader of the Attitude Era but the Rock wasn't behind nobody after 1999. Austin was WWF Champion but Rock headlined Summerslam 01. It was Rock vs Hogan. ...Rock vs Goldberg. ..etc. U can slice away but it will only undervalue names. Everybody knows Macho is mucher than a Warrior. That's like saying Goldberg is near Austin and Rock level....that's impossible.
 

R=G

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Sting was never a draw

"When Sting was on top, the fans came dressed as chairs"

That's the Meltzer gimmick...trying to credit him when anything was not to his perception yet credit everyone else around him when everything is slightly right. Sting is right in the middle of the Monday Night Wars...His heights are higher than Shawn, Bret, and Levesque. There is no way they've ever filled up arena how Sting did in 97-98. Austin bails them out and they get a free pass? Nah. Biased reporting. Agenda based.
 

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Sting was never a draw but he headlined multiple WCW PPVs that did huge numbers & attendance........................:stopitslime:

He only headlined one PPV that really did big numbers

And the attendance when Sting was champion in WCW before Hogan came was really really awful.

Now nobody can take 1997 away from him though.
 

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Rock also said "Sports Entertainer to Sports Entertainer, there is nobody better than the Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin" The Rock also called the Austin WM 17 the biggest match of the Attitude Era. Numbers prove it right.

Macho Man's house show numbers were a huge success. He did great on PPV. If you want it play it like that, what is Austin doing getting credit for any number past Invasion when Rock was on all cards? They act like Austin was the leader of the Attitude Era but the Rock wasn't behind nobody after 1999. Austin was WWF Champion but Rock headlined Summerslam 01. It was Rock vs Hogan. ...Rock vs Goldberg. ..etc. U can slice away but it will only undervalue names. Everybody knows Macho is mucher than a Warrior. That's like saying Goldberg is near Austin and Rock level....that's impossible.

Rock and Austin and Hogan are the biggest draws in WWE history. Picking one over the other (when you count inflation) is really just splitting hairs

Bruno is up there cause of how long he was on top too. And how many sell outs he had.
 

Silkk

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He only headlined one PPV that really did big numbers

And the attendance when Sting was champion in WCW before Hogan came was really really awful.

Now nobody can take 1997 away from him though.
WCW before the nWo angle and the defections was mehh at best, cant blame that shyt on one guy

Not about to go on a numbers rant but Sting vs The Giant for the tag titles headlined GAB98 and did a great number(750k)

Sting is also responsible for TNA getting the primetime spike deal & being able to consistently break the 1.0 barrier, before him they were constantly stuck doing near .77s
 

The G.O.D II

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no, it is not.
as you made a comment like sting and macho were not who they were.
when, anyone who is a smart.
of which, you are not.
any smart knows that sting and macho were both booked as champion.
with a certain goblin and flair there looking to sabotage their draw.
to protect their slot on the card.
when, if booked properly, both would have developed or sustained a boom period.
go and see what type of content and booking both sting and macho got.
as a matter of fact clique rules were developed solely damn near off, limiting sting and macho.
plus, its effectiveness to dull a boom period and return the former me clique guy to prominence.
were authenicated with sting and macho being the main victims.
so, how are macho and sting less.
when, they were a+ guys before being tampered with.

also, people fail to realize hogun and flair.
only flair had real talent wholeheartedly, and was limited by wwf monopolizing tv deals.
both, were in on limiting savage and sting multiple times.
when, real talk.....
both guys were feared as both guys originally were the best heels at one point, argueably.
the reason why their former promotions were talent raided was to acquire them.
they were both a players.
only thing separating them was rocky and the will of their companies to see them fully mature.
as mainstream draws, of which both were severely tampered with for the duration of their reigns in the mainstream promotions.

the difference with a guy like hhh is.
he used the clique rules to the best of his know how.
with the promotions full cooperation and continually failed.
that is why he is lower and a b+ player.
all of the clique guys, who drew heavily.
outside of flair and hogun were B+ player to B-minus guys.
as they had the entire promotion behind them and failed as draws.
when given the ball, that goes for hall, Nash, hbk, and hhh.

as, neither of them, ever were really over on their own as some phenomenon.
they were just there and manipulating coups, admin wise.
plus, ruined and had little vision inring as characters to sustain a boom or create one.
only time clique guys achieved was when a boom establishing a+ guy was around on his own.
as in other promtions, before the first company to have a boom.
they never really drew.
same goes for hall, as needed hennig.
plus, hall never drew by himself.
he had a great character in wwf.
yet, he needed the wwf to do it.
he was never as over by himself as a top flight heel or babyface like, sting or macho in other promotions.

same as hbk, hhh, Nash, and others.
as a matter of fact, the clique outside of 123 kid.
were never over or known like that in other promotions.
even hbk was a ripoff of the rnr express in the awa and he was never over like say Jericho in Smokey, or stampede.
which is why I say the clique were at best, B+ to B- minus guys.
as the clique guys needed clique rules to get admin aid.
plus, never succeeded with a variable that alwasy included a promotion who had someone attached to a boom.

sting and macho were phenomenons as draws before they went somewhere that had people connected to a boom period.
plus, if not tampered with.
could have sustained said boom, rather easily.
including, huge mainstream stars that could have rivaled hogun and flair if not tampered with.





Art Barr

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