The housing market just slid into a full-blown correction

Wild self

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Bro you missing it becuase you want to prove what you believe rather than what reality dictates

Builders don't build for population growth - they build for those who can pay and who they can make a profit off of.

It doesn't profit for them to build for people who cant afford what it costs for them to build where people want to live.

Example

If they built 400k houses in 6 months in Redding PA what does that do for people that need to.live and work in the metro NY area? Nothing . It doesn't matter that the homes are cheap - noone wants to move to Reading PA even if they only work in Union NJ

To put it another way - if RE is a show at a venue it doesn't pay for them to sell tickets at a price everyone who is a fan can afford - if you're the venue you're selling the highest price you can for the best place in the venue - selling tickets for the parking lot where you can't see or hear anything is not worth anything to you as a consumer ...

But if you don't have the money to buy tickets to the show you can't see the show- thats pretty much how RE works in metro areas -

Homes are cheap in South Carolina why? Nobody young wants to fukking live there - no business is there - nothing is really there except cheap living and because nothing is there that's why its cheap

Saying that you want cheap in the most desired locale is naive -

Thats the reality - there are too many people who want to live in too small an area to accommodate them. If any room.is gonna be made for them.it will be at the rate thats can make the best profit for the least investment .so that means either a slight price increase or a flattening of prices for thats that ALREADY can afford to get in.

Blame globalization for America being in this problem to begin with. 25 years ago BEFORE GENTRIFICATION, people lived in cities with corner stores and public buses and not have to pay an arm and a leg for it.
 

BigMan

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If you want proof that building more creates more supply which creates lower price increase look at DC and sunbelt cities

And also read basic macroeconomics I.e. supply and demand

The short term solution for housing is an increase of both market rate and affordable subsidized housing and public transportation in suburbs to make commuting from lower cost areas to cities/jobs more feasible
 

dora_da_destroyer

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If the supply of houses increased yeah the price would fall because suddenly there's drastically more houses out there.

Houses where I live cost on average $230K for an average middle-class home and in LA that might be $900K. The cost to build the house isn't why the price is so high.
It absolutely factors into the base price. The cost of building a unit of housing in the bay is $600k - that’s land acquisition, zoning and permits, raw materials, labor. If you add profit on top, you’re looking at $800k list price, which may be driven up to $900k from multiple bids. You can’t sell a home for $250k if the region it’s built in causes the costs to build to start at $400k
 

shonuff

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It absolutely factors into the base price. The cost of building a unit of housing in the bay is $600k - that’s land acquisition, zoning and permits, raw materials, labor. If you add profit on top, you’re looking at $800k list price, which may be driven up to $900k from multiple bids. You can’t sell a home for $250k if the region it’s built in causes the costs to build to start at $400k
I keep trying to explain that to dudesbut they want to act like buying a house in Sheboygan is the same as buying a house in San Diego

For homes to go for 250k in NY or SF the entire market would have to be in the toilet and noone would be even working
 

shonuff

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Still making my way through this. So far it’s spot on.
These books promote the wisdom of Smart Growth, while demonizing the suburbs, using the term urban sprawl as a prerogative. From its inception, the Smart Growth movement has been convinced of its intellectual superiority, stating that the choice is about either “the idiocy of suburban sprawl or the superiority of Smart Growth.”4 In order to create traction and entrench this agenda, a series of alliances have been formed under the Smart Growth umbrella, such as the anti-automobile group and those focused on environmental issues. “Sustainable” and “Green” have become watchwords for urban designers, who tend to use the terms rather interchangeably to express their concerns about the effects of development on the local and global environment.5 While Smart Growth proponents may argue that their movement is hegemonious, it more accurately resembles a coalition, or alliance, of self-interests. “Although many opponents of sprawl believe their beliefs are based upon a rational and disinterested diagnosis of urban problems, their actions often involve powerful, even if usually unacknowledged, self-interest.”6 Smart Growth in actual practice is politicization of urban real estate

the bolded stuff especially is important

Reddit for the cities is FULL of this Anti- Car " walkable city" promotion...

they say they are grass roots and community based but you dig a little and you find a lot of these bike share proponenets are affiliated with huge corps that have contracts they are enacting or expanding in urban areas to offer "bike sharing " for a fee

most of the campaigns to take back the streets from "parked" cars or "reclaiming" parking for pedestrian use by either ( redesigning or reducing or even eliminating parking in neighborhoods ) is funded by UBER and Lyft to drive a dependance on having to use their services. the more difficult they make it for you to have a personal car the more likly you will have to depend on using ride share services or car rental.
and a lot of poeple who headed those groups to take parking spaces away from neighborhoods for bike sharing go on to then get executive and managerial jobs at bike share companies.

its really is amazing that the same people in one breath talk about being anti corporate - and rail against the "monopoly" of "car centric " planning are funded by corpoarations that have a vested direct benefit from enacting these agendas

are they troll farms of these people? my belief BASE Don the fact that you have people that are paid to evangelize all over the internet from social media to actual media , my answer is "absolutely"!

you see these same people complain about Robert Moses and his fukk up practices of destroying local neighborhoods to enact his urban plans here in NYC in the 1950s and 60s then turn around and call people NIMBYs or say that if a neighborhood resists or rejects their planning goals that they should be ignored....which is EXACTLY what Moses did....he said the same shyt about how its for the "greater good" and that those neoghborhoods were standing in the way of progress.

its like they claim they dont beleive in "trickle down" economics but somehow "trickle down" real estate actually works ....you can point out again and again how its msotly if not completely nothing but huge corps that are able to build housing.

im still waiting for someone to show whre in this RE market so much luxury housing being built has some how made more "affordable" housing for thse who couldnt previously afford the luxury housing.
 

dora_da_destroyer

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the bolded stuff especially is important

Reddit for the cities is FULL of this Anti- Car " walkable city" promotion...

they say they are grass roots and community based but you dig a little and you find a lot of these bike share proponenets are affiliated with huge corps that have contracts they are enacting or expanding in urban areas to offer "bike sharing " for a fee

most of the campaigns to take back the streets from "parked" cars or "reclaiming" parking for pedestrian use by either ( redesigning or reducing or even eliminating parking in neighborhoods ) is funded by UBER and Lyft to drive a dependance on having to use their services. the more difficult they make it for you to have a personal car the more likly you will have to depend on using ride share services or car rental.
and a lot of poeple who headed those groups to take parking spaces away from neighborhoods for bike sharing go on to then get executive and managerial jobs at bike share companies.
damn...i swear i thought this was just the oakland/bay area subs, we've fukked up a lot of thoroughfares listening to "bike zealots"...dudes will be in the sub talking about how people should ebike 20+ mille commutes :heh:
 
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shonuff

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damn...i swear i thought this was just the oakland/bay area subs, we've fukked up a lot of thoroughfares listening to "bike zealots"...dudes will be in the sub talking about how people should ebike 20+ mille commutes :heh:
Nah man I its here in NYC and its in DC - I used to be in the Bay area in Richmond Hill area YEARS ago and moved into SF near Pine St so I know the issues with the Bay as well ....

And yeh you can tell.a LOT of this bike shyt is from well off people who maybe only live a mile or maybe even 5 from where they work ...

But if you live in Oakland you aren't biking to work everyday to work in a office ...not unless you're training for the Trianthon

And for sure you arent riding a bike from Crown Hts or Newkirk Ave in Brooklyn or 175th in the Bronx to get to your office job in Manhattan

They say they are for public transit but they don't want for people to pay for transit or at least people who don't pay should not be penalized ...

Which is crazy thinking if you're all about transit - the people who dont pay impact the money for transit...

But let someone not pay a toll ....

That's the crazy shyt - they say housing is a right and housing should be affordable but they advocate for huge building projects to be done by corps who will only build for the price point of the current market

which means more 3000 p/mo apts ....not less and certainly not.lower priced
 

dora_da_destroyer

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Nah man I its here in NYC and its in DC - I used to be in the Bay area in Richmond Hill area YEARS ago and moved into SF near Pine St so I know the issues with the Bay as well ....

And yeh you can tell.a LOT of this bike shyt is from well off people who maybe only live a mile or maybe even 5 from where they work ...

But if you live in Oakland you aren't biking to work everyday to work in a office ...not unless you're training for the Trianthon

And for sure you arent riding a bike from Crown Hts or Newkirk Ave in Brooklyn or 175th in the Bronx to get to your office job in Manhattan

They say they are for public transit but they don't want for people to pay for transit or at least people who don't pay should not be penalized ...

Which is crazy thinking if you're all about transit - the people who dont pay impact the money for transit...

But let someone not pay a toll ....

That's the crazy shyt - they say housing is a right and housing should be affordable but they advocate for huge building projects to be done by corps who will only build for the price point of the current market

which means more 3000 p/mo apts ....not less and certainly not.lower priced
bingo...pub trans is notoriously underdeveloped and disconnected out here yet these people stay telling someone "so, just bike or bus there" and you can tell they don't have kids either, no one is biking around trying to drop kids at school, get to work, do pick up, take them to their activity, get groceries, etc all on a bike. it's high income singles and DINKs who live in the dense, walkable, well served neighborhoods talking all this shyt

this too, they will handwave away that only 30 units in a 300 unit building are affordable with "well as long as we're building more, thats all that matters :krs:"
 

shonuff

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What’s a better solution than YIMBY/build more :patrice:?
More owner coop developments at a minimum - and a govt policy to underwrite or subsidize the building or upgrade development of ppl in neighborhoods that are middle and low income

More incentive for smaller local contractors unaffiliated with large RE developers

Less focus on getting large corporate chains for commercial development
 

BigMan

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More owner coop developments at a minimum - and a govt policy to underwrite or subsidize the building or upgrade development of ppl in neighborhoods that are middle and low income

More incentive for smaller local contractors unaffiliated with large RE developers

Less focus on getting large corporate chains for commercial development
More incentives like what

How will small contractors meet the demand for housing ?
 
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